The Third Secret of Fatima and Corruption in the Church.

If someone in my family was an imposter, say my aunt or cousin, I would surely know. So would you.
Plastic surgery notwithstanding....
That is why Sr Lucy’s family called it a shameful rumor. It’s not true.

 

The sermons broadcast on the Sensus Fidelium channel are usually excellent. That sermon wasn't one of their better ones. The message was sound: obey lawful authority in all things but sin and trust that God will protect the Church so inside the fold is always the safest place to be. I didn't like his tone or his use of Alex Jones as an example to avoid. I can't imagine any serious Catholic paying attention to Alex Jones. Evidently, the priest is telling us that there are Catholics in the Alex Jones mould. He would have been more convincing had he used those Catholics as examples of people to avoid - and named them.

Your couple of sentences, Don, do a far better job of conveying the message.

 

Yes, Don’s post was excellent. Have not seen the video yet.

 

I think that very few people would dispute now that, as Mother Angelica said, we didn't get the whole thing about Fatima.

Trouble is that the people with authority to give us the whole thing chose to only give us part of it. Not even Sr. Lucy had the authority to tell all to the world. She was told to tell her Bishop. And I'm fairly sure that Our Lady told her she could tell Francisco what she saw but not what she was given to understand about the vision. I understand that to mean that Heaven gave an interpretation of the vision but Heaven didn't necessarily want everyone to have the interpretation.

Maybe the Bishop and Pope were given permission to withhold part of the secret. We simply don't know. The trouble with the Vatican's (mis)handling of the secret is that they are at fault for all the conspiracy theories as well as fake seers also claiming to have secrets.

 

We as the laity also bear some responsibility since we haven’t kept the Five First Saturdays over the decades as requested by Our Lady.

 

Yes, we do bear a lot of responsibility. And we can't claim ignorance due to priests not relaying Our Lady's request that we pray the Rosary every day. There was plenty of media coverage of Pope John Paul urging people to pray the Rosary. I suppose that, by extension, our failure to pray the Rosary contributed to the Vatican's weird handling of the third secret and the consecration of Russia. Nevertheless, that doesn't exonerate the people in the Vatican responsible for the mess. They got themselves in a hole in 1960 and never stopped digging. These things happen to the best of us. The only thing I know for sure is that Heaven didn't give me any authority to demand that the Vatican tell me everything. Fr. Gruner argued that priests were entitled to make that demand on grounds that it would make a difference to how they shepherd the flock. Maybe his argument was good, and maybe it wasn't.

One thing I didn't like about the Sensus Fidelium homily was the priest's reference to relative truth. I don't know how truth could ever be relative. I think what he meant was that just because someone is caught giving misinformation once or the likes of youtube withhold some videos unfairly it doesn't mean that the person will always give misinformation or that every video withheld by youtube is worth watching. I'd be interested to learn the opinion of others about what he said.

 

HH, you have been repeating the same statements while refusing to read any of the evidence that have been made available.

Also, Sr Lucy was a cloistered nun, who rarely got to 'see' her relatives and this was always behind a grille, with other nuns always present.

https://sisterlucyimposter.org/objections-and-responses/#q10

"10. Wouldn’t Sr. Lucy’s family or relatives or the nuns of her convent have known that she was an imposter?
Firstly, we don’t know what Sr. Lucy’s family, relatives, or nuns “knew” about her, and barring the revelation of some unknown confession, we may never know. However, there are some truths we do know. The scientific and medical evidence we have is irrefutable. All the logistical difficulties of how an imposter could be introduced are secondary details that remain to be discovered. However, we know that the relatives were never allowed to see Sr. Lucy face-to-face but always behind the grille and in the presence of other sisters of the community. Hence there was no opportunity for intimate or in-depth conversation.

If it is true that the Church replaced Sr. Lucy with an imposter, if it is possible that the Church was overrun by Communists and Freemasons, is it not also reasonable to believe that these thugs acting in the name of the Church exerted pressure on Sr. Lucy’s relatives to remain silent and pretend as if nothing were happening? This isn’t proof that there was an imposter. It is simply stating that we should not be surprised that a cover up would involve tying up the loose ends with whatever threats or means necessary."

[...]

13. How could a cover up this extensive be maintained over decades?
We don’t have enough information to know exactly how the cover up occurred and how it was maintained. The only thing we have for certain is the irrefutable scientific and medical evidence that there were two Sr. Lucys. Nevertheless, we can still suggest a few reasons how it would have been possible to get away with the substitution.

Part of what made the coverup easy to maintain for decades was the inability to share extensive photographs, videos, and samples of Sr. Lucy’s appearance and handwriting before and after the 1960s. With the advent of the internet and social media, spreading this information has become easy and instantaneous. For the first time in history, we can see for our own eyes how Sr. Lucy appeared, how she changed, as well as her handwriting.

But imagine a person “seeing” Sr. Lucy in 1967 or in magazine publications afterwards. They wouldn’t remember how she had appeared in the decades before. They would have nothing to compare her appearance with. Before instant communications and technology, Sr. Lucy could easily be hidden away in the convent at Coimbra for decades, as she was after the Fr. Fuentes interview.

Following that interview, Sr. Lucy was ordered to keep strict silence about the matter of Fatima and the Secret. The Diocese of Coimbra’s 1959 note said: “Sister Lucy has nothing more to say on Fatima!” This was the last official word of the Church on Sr. Lucy and Fatima.

(emphases in bright blue are mine - SgC)

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Dolours, praying the rosary every day was one of Our Lady’s requests. But I still maintain that the devotion of the Five First Saturdays is pivotal and it has all but disappeared. I have not been good about that.

 

Regardless of the results of the private investigation I don't think we will find many people who would be willing to argue that what happened with the third secret of Fatima or Sister Lucy for that matter are without intrigue and conspiracy. What I wonder about is then why has God allowed it to go on all these years. We know that nothing happens in this world without His allowing it and for His good and those who are His. Can we surmise then that we are not bound to the authority of the men who we think carried out misdeeds? No. In fact, we are still in spite of the possibility of even greater misdeeds still bound to obey them (unless ordered by them to violate God's law of course) because God gave them charge over us for our good which granted can be very hard for us to comprehend. Just as Jesus subjected Himself to those who put Him to death. He also told others to obey the temple priests but warned them not to do what they did because they were hypocrites. This is the great reality for all who profess Jesus. The alternative is that if we are not careful we can find ourselves proclaiming either openly or secrectly; I will not serve.

We all have to remember that there has always been corruption in the church from the very beginning. In fact it has been like a honey pot to evil men precisely because of Jesus's promises to all of us regarding it. The story of the wheat and the tare is very relevant here.

 

Thank you Don.

 

Thank you, Don.

 

I totally agree with your post, Don.

Why Five Saturdays?

Sister Lucia’s confessor questioned her about the reason for the five Saturdays asking why not seven or nine. She answered him in a letter dated June 12, 1930. In it she related about a vision she had of Our Lord while staying in the convent chapel part of the night of the twenty-ninth to the thirtieth of the month of May, 1930. The reasons Our Lord gave were as follows:

The five first Saturdays correspond to the five kinds of offenses and blasphemies committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They are:

a. Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception
b. Blasphemies against her virginity
c. Blasphemies against her divine maternity, at the same time the refusal to accept her as the Mother of all men
d. Instilling indifference, scorn and even hatred towards this Immaculate Mother in the hearts of children
e. Direct insults against Her sacred images

Let us keep the above reasons firmly in our minds. Devotions have intentions attached to them and knowing them adds merit and weight to the practice.

copied and pasted from America Needs Fatima[/QUOTE]

 

Do you remember what part of the homily this was during Dolours? I don't remember anything he said being supportive of truth being relative.

 

As a convert of 11 years, I can honestly say that throughout my RCIA and for years afterwards, I was never made aware of Our Lady's requests for the Five First Saturdays and daily Rosary, until I read up about the Fatima apparitions on the internet, and later read more on this forum.
I tried to speak with a priest about Fatima and the secrets, but he said very little and changed the subject.
On the other hand, when we know that the Fatima apparitions and messages have been approved by the Vatican as being supernatural and worthy of belief, it makes no sense to say, as some are wont to, that no one is obliged to believe in it because it’s a private revelation. The Vatican itself made it public, and also, what could be more public than the greatest public miracle (of the Sun) to be performed in history, at the precise time as prophesied?
So, we cannot on one hand keep insisting that it’s a private revelation not requiring our belief, and on the other hand, blame Catholics for not heeding Our Lady’s requests.

The Secret was supposed to be released to all the faithful in 1960. That was Our Lady's explicit instruction.

When Sister Lucy was asked “Why 1960?” she responded, “Because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so.”
Also, in 1955, Cardinal Ottaviani visited Sister Lucy and asked her why the Secret should not be released until 1960.
Sister Lucy replied: “Because then, it will become clearer.”

It is our right to know, because Our Lady wants to save our souls from falling into Hell.

As Cardinal Ratzinger told the Jesus magazine in an interview entitled “Here is Why the Faith is in Crisis”on November 11, 1984, the Secret refers to “dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian and therefore (the life) of the world.”

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Our Lady at Akita said , “the priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confrères.”
However, the fact is that revelation stopped with the Apostles. Therefore, after that, revelations became private. People may think that is lamentable, but belief in private revelations, even those approved by the Church, is not required for salvation.

 

Yes I know that it is not required for salvation.
But if you keep on saying that, how can you then chastise anyone for not keeping the Five First Saturdays devotion?

The Fatima messages are approved by the Vatican as supernatural and worthy of belief.
(If I remember correctly), Fr Gruner said that they then become part of the Church's Tradition.

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Precisely.
Pachamama worship, worshiping together with non-Catholics, receiving Communion in the hand and trampling all over our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, not evangelising/ "proselytising" people of other faiths because 'there is some truth in all religions' are only a few of the errors propagated by the hierarchy which go against God's laws.

Jesus told the Jews to listen to the Pharisees but not do what they did, because the Pharisees were still preaching the correct Laws.

We are only guilty of "non-serviam" when we refuse to obey God's Laws. Hierarchy who command us to go against God's Laws should not be obeyed.

And the third Secret indeed contains warnings about apostasy in the Church, beginning from the top.

We know what happened to the King of France for disobeying Jesus' request to consecrate France to His Sacred Heart.

Jesus also told Sr Lucy in 1931 in Rianjo, Spain, "Make it known to My ministers that given they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My command, that they will follow him into misfortune".
This is what is in the vision or first part of the 3rd Secret, where the bishop in white and all the priests, religious and lay people around him die.

I don't believe that God 'allows' the suppression of the 3rd secret for our good.
But it is happening because God will never take away man's free will.
Still, God can turn anything and everything into good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

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Francisco did see the vision, but could not hear the words spoken by Our Lady.
Our Lady then told Sr Lucy that she could tell Francisco Her words, but not tell anyone else, (as yet).

The vision is the first part of the 3rd secret, and the words of Our Lady are the 2nd part, which have never been released to the world.

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I don’t think I was chastising. I have fallen out of keeping that devotion while keeping the First Fridays. But as I said, we were talking about Fatima. Most of the propagation of the Fatima message was done by outside groups like the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima. There are many such groups today. I think we all knew about Fatima, or at least my circle of Catholic friends did. And we said the rosary daily.
My friends and I belonged to the Blue Army.
Fr Gruner is deceased. I surely am not going to argue about something that you might remember that he said. That is unsubstantiated. Plus you said you know that belief in private revelations is not required for salvation. So I don’t intend to argue this useless point. It certainly would behoove us all to follow the Fatima devotions. You are preaching to the choir.
I surely know that the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus has become part of the Church's Tradition. It took awhile. So it will take awhile, more than likely, for First Saturday. The Church has always set aside Saturdays for offering votive Masses of the Blessed Mother, though.
Edit: not sure from memory how closely we followed the Blue Army on the First Saturdays
Devotions, but we prayed lots of rosaries
Also, Our Lady asked for the sacrifices required by our daily duties and the wearing of the scapular.

 

Fr. Gruner was one good faithful priest! He suffered for his faith. Well done good and faithful servant! Enjoy your reward! I miss him.