I'm all in favour of prudence ... but while it is true that a proliferation of false prophecy is a sign of the times, so too is the Spirit being poured out 'on all flesh' (Joel 2) with all that implies in terms of prophecy and dreams. There are only two viable options here IMHO: i) an approach which, favouring caution, is marked by scepticism as a default position. This may indeed be a sensible option for some who are anxious about being deceived, and of course it needs to be remembered that even approved Private Revelation is not considered binding. Nonetheless, much of what can be seen out there on the internet from the sceptical camp is not so much characterized by genuine discernment as readers' subjective judgments, a priori argumentation with no logical solidity, and more often than not, a failure to read the material properly. ii) what I and I think many others on this forum would see as the Pauline approach - 'Do not despise prophecies but test everything; hold fast to what is good' (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21). Proceeding on a case-by-case basis a posteriori is not at all easy, as it requires not only the establishment of solid criteria of discernment but also patience and some serious spiritual discipline (prayer and, I would argue, fasting). However, given that the Church firmly believes in the reality of post-Biblical prophetic revelation, while obviously never supplanting Scripture and the Deposit of Faith, it is impossible to say on an aprioristic basis that a locution is false without actually studying it. Naturally this has to be undertaken with extreme care, but the urgency of the subject-matter is such that this simply has to be done if there is any chance at all that Heaven may be speaking, for the reason that if this is the case, we are presumably expected to listen. The unfortunate reality is that because the Church does not in general make pronouncements on living visionaries unless their material displays clear doctrinal errors or obvious self-contradictions, there is a vast amount of prophetic material out there which has neither been conclusively discerned pro or contra (a good example might be Luz Amparo Cuevas of El Escorial - messages dating back to the 1980s on which the jury is still out). Having done my best as a professionally-trained theologian to evaluate in excess of 8000 pages of alleged contemporary prophetic revelation, I can assure you that 'sweetness' has very little to do with what we are talking about here. What rather emerges as being at the heart of the matter is a restoration of our lost fear of the Lord in the Biblical sense as not only our Redeemer but also our coming Judge. Those who are acquainted with approved apparitions and visionaries from the Rue du Bac and La Salette onwards recognize instantly that there is a definite continuity of prophetic utterance in all of this, one which goes right back to the prophets of Biblical times.
Peter, and to think that all I was going to post was what the prophet Joel said. I am so glad when you respond to things because you state them so well and far better than I ever could. I am option II. I read everything I can try to find and pray for discernment and understanding because when Heaven is talking I want to be listening. To me taking the approach of only wanting to read up on of what was approved in the past and ignoring the words from heaven in the here and now is a bit like the Pharisees who did not want to listen to Jesus and His truth but rather were stuck in the past with their knowledge of the law. They didn't even recognize that the truth and the law, the word made flesh was standing right in front of them. I love the tradition but also don't want to miss the word standing right in front of me.
Yes, Padraig, if we are under the protection of Our Lady's mantle, let us be at peace. If we have been to Confession and bear no grudges, let us be at peace. If we have been attending Holy Mass and receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, let us be at peace. If we pray from the heart each day and strive to show love to those we encounter, let us be at peace. God Almighty is more than able to uphold His Church. Confusion may come, but the devil is no match for the humility of Mary. She is the instrument through which his head shall be crushed! No confusion about that; only certainty! Alleluia! Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
'I can assure you that 'sweetness' has very little to do with what we are talking about here. What rather emerges as being at the heart of the matter is a restoration of our lost fear of the Lord in the Biblical sense as not only our Redeemer but also our coming Judge.' I think this is the nub of the matter Peter. I really admire the work you put into discernment Peter. I am afraid I have long since thought , 'Life is too short' and have limited myself to discernment on just a few. The fact that you dot his systematically and objectively is even more admirable. I will say one thing as a non theologian on discernment which few people mention. I think we have to be a bit like a drone and kind of sometimes buzz up to a height to look down on these phenomena. There is a danger if folks go and pick out this or that and say, 'That's that its right', or 'That's that its wrong', we risk crashing and burning. But if we have a chance to kind of step back from things and take the whole thing overall it gets us a general feel of how things are going. A good example is to ask the question, is this a good faithful Catholic, showing humility, obedient to the Church and Scripture, showing no sign of drug abuse or mental imbalance? More especially if the person(s) show real signs of sanctity, I would on the whole be quite positive. Even if there is an issue or two that raises concerns. But in either case as you mention , Peter, the general tenor of these messages is unmistakable. Take the good loose the bad. How hard can that be? I think people, good Catholic people, have a natural common sense and instinct too .
Yes, Terry it all goes back to humility. I hope you and yours are well. I wish the world were responding to these messages, but instead of this it seems to reverse, people are going from bad to worse.
Hi Padraig, Just wondering about the above post, especially the statement; "I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist." Is that your statement or are you refering to what Martin Luther may have stated??? Regretably only getting short periods of time to read all the informative and wonderfully edifying stories and opinions on the Mother of God site , I am very much out of the loop [I think should be my modus operandi]. However I have noticed that Mac and the others that were apparently banned from the site are back . I would like to say welcome back guys and also ask was there something that precipitated this change of heart. Thank you Carolyn
No I most certainly do not think the Pope is the anti Christ Carolyn, that was most certainly was Martin Luther. I hope he avoided hell for it, but I have my doubts, I read he had a bad death.
Terribly sorry Padraig. I think, I read the post from beginning to end and did not recognise where your statements ended. I have become very cautious at work and everywhere really, as sometimes feel like I've entered the twilight zone. Also I think that the last time I was on the site Mac, Fatima and a few others were banned, which threw me at the time. Being one of Gods most unperceptive creatures [at times] I did not understand why, although I knew you would have had good reasons. Now they're back and that is wonderful. Possibily its just that I'm getting older and having many senior moments!
Josephite said..'I would like to say welcome back guys and also ask was there something that precipitated this change of heart' . Thanks Carolyn , I have no idea if others will return, but I hope so. But thats between them and Padraig . I just asked Padraig if I could come back ,and he said no problem
Kathy, You are right. If the Pope ever says that then he cannot be Pope since he is denying Christ. Its the Mass that keeps us together with God. Sometimes its just something that realy gets to me - that Christ is there and gives himself to all of us. If the Pope ever said like protestants believe that the Mass is just a symbol he would be against God I think. Catholics could not obey the Pope if he said that because that would make us against God too.
I hope everyone comes back to the site....I miss people. I need certainty right now that other posters give me. Plus I always read Fatima's posts. I seem to be able to understand them. They end with the Rosary and the Scapular will save the world.
I don't think there is anything Pharisaical about BH's post. We are not obliged to believe in any apparition, private revelation (which is what Fatima, for instance, is). The church occasionally recommends an apparition/revelation as 'worthy of belief'. Of course we should interpret the signs of the times - all the approved apparitions, and most of the unapproved ones, recommend prayer (eg the rosary), penance, sacramentals and the sacraments. We are instructed by our Lord to be on guard against deception so a little healthy skepticism isn't a bad thing. If I had been alive in the 1930s, would I have believed Hitler was the Antichrist? undoubtedly. He wasn't - except in so far as he was a 'type' of Antichrist, along with Napoleon, Stalin, etc. I believe that it's easier to judge/discern mystics from a longer period of time. For instance, Anna Maria Taigi - at the time I think I'd have baulked at the idea of someone seeing the future in a mystical globe (sounds a bit occultish?) but she was really interpreting the signs of the times and there is no doubt IMO that she was on the money. I wish I'd known her anyway. BTW, am so pleased that we are seeing some familiar names back again....
No one should be banned for the Truth, I remember myself SteveD, one of my favorite member, a man of Faith, if I have been able to be back, all is possible, Padraig is a man of faith, he will understand it for sure. Aviso
Steve and Madam Steve are of to Rome on Pilgrimage , they will be away a while. His wife is not well ,say a prayer. Bienvenue à la maison de Notre-Dame, Aviso
Will Pray for Madam Steve, your French Padraig is better than my English, give me the freedom to talk but you will need" to tight your belt", your Parents are always in my Prayers. PS: reading some interesting threads, let them back, the Tradionalists as they call them are in my opinion also on the right road, pleaase be sure of that, if you don't give me any freedom to talk, I will stay quiet of course. Aviso
