What happens if the pope is a heretic?

God forgive me but could it possibly be our poor Holy Father has even less understanding of the Holy Faith than science or economics.

 

Like you Julia I can no longer hold on to mental reservation. It's as obvious as the nose on your face that we have a major problem with Francis. He is full on out there now showing his colours. I can no longer bite my tongue and smile sweetly when friends gush about how wonderful he is. I'm heading on a retreat next weekend with a group of ladies. Some of them love him. They are very good people, a lot better than me but seem to be able to ignore any things that are not right. Of course they take their cue from the priests and bishops of this country. I will try and avoid conversations about him but if I'm forced to listen I will not hold back. I will try and pray continually.

 

I agree that he has little or no economic training or experience, but he may have a superficial knowledge of an ideology that he finds attractive. Unfortunately, his advocacy for Marxism lends his papal authority to it, in defiance of the strictures of Vatican II. Marxism, ironically is an atheist religion, with the immanentist dogma that mankind can create a 'heaven' on Earth, sometime in the future, although it generally requires that millions die in order for the more fortunate to achieve 'heaven'. It always seems only to create Hell. Marxism, whether it be in the socialist or communist form, is essentially the politics of envy, and of theft in order to sate that envy. It is so wicked that God ensured that at least two of the only ten Commandments ruled it completely out of order. The Church has always condemned it. This is the background before which, in defiance of Vatican II, our pope advocates for this ideology.

 

Your friends are well-intentioned, but may only have heard the propaganda about this pope, so boastful of his humility that you couldn't but know of it. But, do they want a pope whose idea of Heaven seems to be one that somehow can be achieved on Earth (not much use for those worthy of it who happen to have died), or one with the Promise of an eternal abode for their soul?

 

Surely do miss Rush Limbaugh!

 

This is a good one from Anthony Stine.

 

imho, He's risen to his "level of incompetence", and unfortunately, has no "competent" advisors at this point. Hopefully he will have an epiphany before the "Cornerstone" moves from His place....

 

Hi Lois. I'm sorry but there is settled Catholic teaching "about the papacy being protected." Here is the key quote from the Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus from Vatican I (1870):

Chapter 4:
....

6. For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren."[60]

7. This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine. Thus the tendency to schism is removed and the whole Church is preserved in unity, and, resting on its foundation, can stand firm against the gates of hell.
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So, as you can see, an Ecumenical Council of the Church has stated unequivocally that the authentic "Peter" is protected by the Holy Spirit from OFFICIALLY teaching anything that contradicts the "deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles." This is a dogma of the Catholic faith. Brian is absolutely correct in his formulation above:

either this heretical pope is the true pope and Christ lied when He said He would protect the papacy from error, or this guy is an antipope.
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One might quibble whether Jorge Mario Bergoglio has actually contradicted the apostolic faith in his teaching to this point. That would be a question of fact. But on the question of dogma, IF he has contradicted the apostolic faith in his teaching, then either he cannot be the true successor of "Peter," or a Catholic Church dogma (based on divine revelation) is in error. If that dogma were to be considered erroneous (which is not possible as a matter of FAITH for a Catholic), then one could legitimately question all dogmas as well as the source of divine revelation upon which the dogmas are founded.

 

There is no argument in this from me. I am no scholar or theologian or canon lawyer. But when I see a dear soul is thinking either it's this or "Someone" lied, it's time to step back for the sake of all our souls. I can't get into the legalistic words of an ecumenical council ~ that's far above my own competence. I can however, have Faith that our Lord has a plan here, and trust He, along with the help of Our Lady and the Saints, will sort it out. imho, we, each of us, individually, need to seriously consider what our part is in this.

 

Remember, what you write here is seen by a vast audience, very many of whom (myself included) were never taught how to think logically, or how to debate properly. Sometimes, it's the Faith we had as children that carries us thru ~ He will not leave us orphaned in this unprecedented period in time.

Now, I withdraw again.

 

I agree with you "that Our Lord has a plan here." I believe that he explained that plan in the parable of the wheat and the tares.

He is allowing the "confusion" (Babylon) in the universal Church so that there is a "separation." Those who want to follow the perennial teaching of the Church have their "Peter": Benedict XVI. Those who want to follow a novel teaching, a materialistic, progressivistic, inversion of Jesus's teaching have their "Anti-Peter": Jorge Mario Bergoglio. People will self-select into whatever side they prefer. And then the angels will descend, gathering up the anti-Christs for burning and gathering the wheat for the Barn of Heaven.

 

Only One has the competence to separate the wheat from the tares. imho, our job is not to be "right" or "wrong", but to stand fast in the "Truth". Point out the "errors", always in charity, letting your fully formed and informed conscience be your guide. And do not lose your Peace.

 

It's a time if testing for us all.

At times I feel as if all around me and inside the church is mad.

That's when I literally have to cling to the garments of our Lady to stay spiritually sane. In her heart we must take refuge.

 

As it was written by God's hands through the Bible must take place. Little horn the false prophet comes to mind. In revelation there is much to read. Humble like a lamb in the beginning ...then boom.

 

Our Lord called Simon, 'Peter', His Rock, and that He would found His Church upon this Rock and told us that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. It would appear to me that the passage indicates that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church, but not specifically that they will not prevail against a pope. This is all terribly difficult, but it does seem a viable solution to say that a pope who turns against God automatically ceases to be pope, but the difficulty is to decide who has the authority to decree such an event? Certainly not little me!

 

Hi DeGaulle. We don't need to say "that a pope who turns against God automatically ceases to be pope." That is an academic point. We just need to act upon what our properly-formed conscience tells us is the Truth. Who is and who is not "the Vicar of Christ" will become apparent in our quest for the Truth.

God has given each one of us a mind and free will. We are expected to pray to God for discernment. If we are worthy of him answering our prayers (i.e., humble and in a state of grace as defined by the Church), our prayers will be answered. We will be given the gift of discernment. We will be able to distinguish Truth (as the Church has defined it) from falsehood. Once we recognize the Truth (as the Church has defined it), we must act with a firm will, freely, to choose to follow the Truth (as the Church has defined it) no matter what the material cost of doing so.

Concretely this means:

1. We must examine our conscience, sorrowfully repent of our sins, receive the Sacrament of Penance from a valid Catholic priest, complete the assigned penance and remain in a state of grace.

2. We must watch and pray for discernment about the crisis in the Church. This involves reading the Catechism also (the Catechism of Trent is the best).

3. When we are given clarity about which prelates are upholding the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and which ones are not, we must act with firmness to support the former and resist the latter with every fiber of our being.

What I describe is not exceptional. It is the basic requirement of being a Catholic Christian. We don't get to sit on the sidelines and wait for someone else to do our faith for us. We are being tested. We can't refuse to take the test by saying, "who has the authority" to take the test..."certainly not little me." Please understand that I am saying this in all charity. I do not mean to criticize you but to exhort you to holiness. Please forgive me if I come across too bluntly. May God bless you!

 

I don't know what to say, except thank you ~ very kind of you.

 

Thank you for your reply, but what I meant to say is, who has the authority to officially decree that a pope has opposed God? We were all advised by St Paul, via the Galatians, not to accept another Gospel even from an angel of Heaven. That'll do me. However, no one of us has the authority to publicly declare authoritatively or legitimately that Pope Francis is an anti-pope. This makes it difficult to express and debate our personal opinions.