Vassula

It would be wise to leave the messages of this "seer" to the authority God granted His Church. Obedience is what is called for here. I clearly discern the "guided writing" as being a deceptive ploy by Satan. Even the title screams "pride" ... "The True Life of God"...really? We already have Scripture and Tradition...the title deceptively implies as if..."what you need is my message because the Church is lacking truth therefore the "True" revelation of the "Life of God". Warning...Warning...Will Robertson...that does not compute. These are the "End Times" and Satan has sown many false plants in the vineyard...in humble obedience mind the authority of the Church and she will guide you to the safe harbor...perhaps not like you like but non the less...trust in God for He is your High Tower.

 

Actually, no, Timothius. The title of work is True Life in God.

I recommend you view these recommendations: http://www.davidtlig.org.uk/fruitclergy.html

 

About Vassula Ryden: I heard of her from different people and wanted just to research her writings... but something troubles me inspite of those good thoughts and aims she has. The worst part is her inter-religious work. I found this inter-religious speech on February 23, 2003 in Buddhist Monastery.
Following passage was the most worrying. Jesus name was mentioned only once + some Bible verses.
“The purer the heart is the more powerful the prayer becomes, so let your prayers be like perfumed incense that will fragrance the universe, let them reach heaven. Let us make an Eden on earth. Then, when your hearts will be so purified, whosoever your God is, he will listen to your pleas. So let us learn to be in a permanent state of prayer.”

This Eden on Earth! Quite unbelievable…And I was shocked and sad: How many gods we earth children have so we could choose one of them and pray him/her/something. I’m very afraid of too close inter-religious relations.

 

Davidtlig...I stand corrected and thank you for the correction. I am however convinced it is demonic...the handwriting...the auto writing. It is true enough that some Saints have certainly dictated words from our Lord and our Lady... but to dictate in a different script other than ones own handwriting? To much like demonic auto writing for me. Also may I add...the true clue is the statement from the Vatican regarding her messages...to disobey is simply to be disobedient.

 

Misinterpretation is a great tool of the evil one. Perhaps Vassula was widely misunderstood early on, because bad interpretations were being made, not necessarily by her, but by others. I have never read specifically what she claimed to have said in the late 80's and early 90's that was allegedly false doctrine. I tend to read and listen to as much as I can in someone's own statements and to this point, everything I have read and listened to on Vassula has been very insightful to me. Perhaps a few of her earlier writings were the ones that Cardinal Ratzinger later said had been clarified?

 

Timothius, I listened to the video clip "Voice True Life in God" above. Vassula explains how this writing came about and when this writing was examined by many including an exorcist who stated is was a heavenly writing (something called 'hieratic' writing). I am not qualified to validate whether what this priest said is true or not, but I would like to hear from someone who has better understanding on this than me. You can listen to her statement on this around the 4:10 to 4:50 mark of the video.

If as you say it is 'demonic writing' please show me your proof. If not, then you should not say something that untrue. The 'automatic writing' posted in an earlier clip on this thread is not comparative to what Vassula has stated and shown in another video clip on this thread. Again, I am not afraid to learn. I don't take slander against someone serious until they can articulate their points with sound arguments. To this point I have not read any sound arguments against Vassula other than a Vatican pronouncement in 1995, which further clarification in 2007 reiterate the same. I am still cautious, but listening.

This is the 1995 statement by Cardinal Ratzinger that is still in force with the 2007 comment by Cardinal Leveda:
"Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church".
Notice the Church did not condemn her writings, nor forbid the faithful from reading them in 1995. It was rather a prudential judgment "invite" by Cardinal Ratzinger to not regard her writings as supernatural.
Why would he 10 years later have his picture taken with Vassula if he felt the same way? He surely knew that in doing so it would be seen as an implicit recognition of her to say the least.

 

This is from te Women of Grace Blog
Vassula Ryden’s Books are Not Church-Approved
Posted on November 11, 2013 by SBrinkmann
TC asks: “Can Catholics read Vassula Rydens books? I bought “Heaven is Real but so is Hell” at a Catholic bookstore. I asked the clerk if this book was approved by the Catholic Church and he said yes. I looked up info on the internet and became very confused if the Church warned us not to read her books. Please let me know if I should return the book. I don’t want to read anything that is dangerous to my faith.”


The clerk in the bookstore is misinformed about the Church’s position on Vassula Ryden, but this is understandable since Mrs. Ryden’s website is full of pictures of her posing with then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and other church officials as well as a long list of documents detailing her interaction with various church officials.

However, despite what is being promulgated by her organization, a ruling made against Mrs. Ryden by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1995 remains in effect:

“Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden’s activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs. Vassula Ryden’s writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church.”

For those who are not familiar with Ryden, she was born to Greek parents living in Egypt in 1942 and claims to be receiving messages from Jesus and Mary. A member of the Greek Orthodox Church, she has documented these messages in multiple volumes of a book entitled, True Life in God, which is riddled with New Age spirituality, millennialism and a false ecumenism. Even more problematic is that these messages were received through automatic writing, also known as trance-writing, which is a form of mediumship.

In 1995, the same year as the Vatican issued its notification about Ryden, Dominican theologian François-Marie Dermine, a Canadian-born priest serving as exorcist for the diocese of Bologna, Italy, wrote a book, Vassula Rydén: Critical Inquiry, in which he analyzed Ryden’s work and found it lacking in many regards. A very informative document by Fr. Dermine about Ryden can be found here.

Essentially, Fr. Dermine cites Ryden for cancelling messages that she discovered to be false, saying that God told her she could change any messages that didn’t work. He also cites theological errors and the “Vassula-centrism” of the messages for his opinion that Ryden’s writings are not from God.

Ryden’s website displays a letter allegedly written by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2004 saying that participation in her ecumenical prayer groups should be left up to diocesan bishops. However, Cardinal William Levada, prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith confirmed as recently as 2007 that the 1995 notification against Ryden was still in effect.

In addition, the Greek Orthodox Church also condemned her teachintgs in 2011 and the Church of Cypress did the same in 2012.

TC, my recommendation is to return the book and please inform the clerk that the 1995 Notification against Ryden is still in effect.



- See more at: http://www.womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=25540#sthash.739qX3Kk.dpuf

 

Thanks for this post, Thanos, it is a gem especially for this forum.

I would only add that we also need some serious spiritual life -which must include a real prayer life, accountability, self knowledge, and of course, humility- to be free enough to be open to the Spirit of Truth without drowning in today's ocean of prophets and prophecies, of light and darkness.

The sad thing is that we've come to the point where people without real training in the spiritual battlefield feel so confident about judging lightly even the Pope -as Fatima points out. Sometimes this is out of sheer ignorance, even though they may be very learned intellectually.

 

Some clarifications are needed here as the above article is not fully in line with the facts:

i) The recent book Heaven is Real But So is Hell is Vassula Ryden's autobiography, not a series of messages.

ii) The opinion that True Life in God is 'riddled with New Age spirituality, millenialism and a false ecumenism' is utterly unsubstantiated, and as a professionally-trained theologian, science-faith researcher and published author who has studied all 1500+ pages of the TLIG messages and looked at images of the manuscripts, I am prepared to say categorically that this opinion is completely false. The charge of 'automatic writing' has already been dealt with on this forum and elsewhere; the fact that there are spelling and grammatical errors in the messages is obvious proof that Vassula Rydén's linguistic limitations were involved, meaning that the messages cannot have been 'automatic'.
iii) Cardinal Levada's letter of 25 Jan 2007 can be found on the Vatican website at http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...con_cfaith_doc_20070125_vassula-ryden_en.html . Its statements are far from unequivocal. Working in reverse order:

a) while point 3 says that Catholic participation in TLIG prayer groups is 'inappropriate', it leaves the question of ecumenical meetings to the discretion of Diocesan Ordinaries:
'Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223, ' 2 and 383, ' 3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries' . To this extent, it would seem that churchmen such as now Archbishop André Leonard were within their rights to organize ecumenical meetings as he did in Namur, Belgium at which Vassula Rydén spoke.

b) regarding the writings, point 2 (emphasis mine) says that
'Mrs Vassula Rydén, however, after dialogue with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has offered clarifications on some problematic points in her writings and on the nature of her messages which are presented not as divine revelations, but rather as her personal meditations (see Vassula Rydén: Letter of 26 June 2002, published in True Life in God, vol. 12, XXI-LI)*. From a normative point of view therefore, following the aforementioned clarifications, a case by case prudential judgment is required in view of the real possibility of the faithful being able to read the writings in the light of the said clarifications.'

It should be obvious that to twist 'case by case prudential judgment' into a straightforward condemnation of V.R.'s writings, as has been done variously on the internet, is a serious misrepresentation of the facts.

[*this formulation of Cardinal Levada's has been contested by Vassula Rydén on the grounds that she never presented the TLIG messages as 'personal meditations']

c) The statement 'The Notification of 1995 remains valid as a doctrinal judgment of the writings examined' is fundamentally ambiguous given that subsequent to the conclusion of the 2002-2004 dialogue between Vassula and the CDF the TLIG messages were given a nihil obstat and imprimatur (i.e. a judgement of doctrinal orthodoxy) by Bishop Felix Toppo and Archbishop Ramon Arguelles respectively. I am aware that Maria Laura Pio and Fr Dermine at www.pseudomystica.info are trying to discredit this on procedural grounds, but the fact remains that the nihil obstat and imprimatur represent the opinion of two members of the hierarchy who several years later remain supporters of Vassula Rydén and have not as far as I know been subject to disciplinary proceedings. There are unresolved issues here for which the most logical explanation would seem to be that opinion on V.R. is divided within the Catholic hierarchy. This can be inferred from then Cardinal Ratzinger's remark to Niels Hvidt that he wanted to see a new notification on her modifying that of 1995 but had to 'obey the cardinals' (http://www.cdf-tlig.org/dialogue.html ). Vassula Rydén certainly has her critics, but also her advocates. Here it also needs to be pointed out that the statement at www.pseudomystica.info acknowledging that 'some bishops and priests' are among those publicly associated with V.R. seriously downplays the seniority of some of these figures, who besides Belgian Primate André Leonard include Cardinals Toppo, Napier, Sfeir and the late Cardinal Franjo Kuharic.

iii) Fr. François-Marie Dermine's extensive critique of True Life in God is well-known and equally extensive counter-arguments have been put forward onwww.defending-vassula.org . While nobody disputes that Vassula Rydén made changes to the manuscript, there are good precedents for this (e.g. St Bridget of Sweden). It only discredits TLIG if what people are looking for is a completely error-free, infallible transcription of the 'exact words of Jesus' with no human factors involved - which would be an irresponsible way to approach any 'private revelation'. Here Bishop Carillo Gritti's statement of May 31 2009 stressing that human factors are always present when giving official approval to the apparitions of Itapiranga is worth quoting as an example of a sound approach to such questions:

'Of course, there is still the influence of the human factor. Even authentic image and visions pass as said Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, through the filter of our senses, which carry out a process of translation ... "and" ... are influenced by the possibilities and limitations of the perceiving subject "(Cardinal Ratzinger, Theological Commentary in preparation for the publication of the Third Secret of Fatima. L'Osservatore Romano, June 28, 2000).'

While I agree that more scientific work (building on that of commentators such as French neurologist Philippe Loron) is needed into the phenomenology of the messages, my own view is that there are serious problems with Fr Dermine's methodology.

Firstly, his theoretical model for locutions lacks nuance and does not take into account the different ways in which the TLIG messages were received, going from direct dictation to 'wordless illumination' subsequently reconstituted by Vassula Rydén. Given these various scenarios (which are also attested methodologically by other recipients of puported prophetic experiences acros the denominational spectrum), it should be evident that the degree of participation of V.R.'s subjectivity in this process is not uniform.

Secondly Fr Dermine presents a good deal of subjective argumentation which carries no scientific weight. Take for example the judgment that the messages are 'sentimental', which is an aesthetic objection, or the critique that the messages' recognition of the 'primacy of Peter', i.e. Rome, among Christian churches, is merely one of honour, not of jurisdiction, which simply means that the TLIG messages do not conform to Fr Dermine's own views on ecumenism. He also attempts to discredit Vassula Rydén by lampooning her belief in the existence of 'ecclesiastical freemasonry' despite a wealth of historical information from secular sources to the contrary.

Thirdly [as Thanos has pointed out], www.pseudomystica.info and other similar critical sites regularly publish links to critiques which are mutually incompatible with each other. To this I should add that my own research leads me to conclude that the vast majority of the material critiquing Vassula Rydén can be traced back to a handful of wounded individuals (Maria Laura Pio, Michael Prabhu, Kim Davison) who had bad experiences in groups linked to True Life in God. Such experience of course occur in all human structures, but what I observe is that the 'information' circulated by these individuals, whatever their sincerity, is heavily coloured by unresolved personal issues and cannot therefore be regarded as in any way objective.

Let me say that I am not saying any of this as someone in the pay of True Life in God ministries, but as an independent researcher whose only concern is to try to sort out truth from disinformation.

 

Hi Fatima... first off...as these are the "End Days"...even the Elect would be deceived if they could. If " THE CONGRAGATION IVITES ALL THE FAITHFUL( that would be me and you...we are Roman Catholic not Orthodox) NOT TO REGARD MS VASSULA RYDEN's WRITINGS ( "look here" they say "writings") AND SPEECHES AS SUPRANATURAL ( if the Congragation says these messages are not supernatural and Ms Ryden presents them as being supernatural then it is only logical to presume that Ms Ryden is being deceptive) AND TO PERSERVE THE PURITY OF THE FAITH ( hum...to preserve the purity of the faith which can only mean they have found something that must threaten one's faith) THAT THE LORD HAS ENTRUSTED TO THE CHURCH". This is the Churches stance and in obedience I submit my will. If you are Roman Catholic then you likewise should submit. Trust God in His Providence so that last day you will hear these words "Enter paradise my good and faithful servant". Not to sound repetitive...but Obedience is the safeguard against Satans ploys even when we don't or can't understand.
Secondly...I am neither a intellectual, nor scholar, nor a learned person...I am a Dumb Ox and a follower of our Lord and Savoiur Jesus Christ. My impulse was from the Spirit...the writing is demonic in nature.
I can't tell you how many times people get a photo
gragh to validate their points. Satan himself can get a picture with the Blessed Sacrament...but he is still Satan.
Lastly...(forgive my spelling and grammer... LOL)... do not forget...this is private revelation...one does not have to believe...Godbless!

 

As all of our beautiful Saints and our Lord Himself has assurred us, holy obedience to His Church has more value to the soul than any inspiration or private revelation ever could. Whether His Church is right or wrong in her judgement., she will never cause us to sin, and such is our Lords pleasure at our obedience, He will grant us much higher graces than we ever would have received by reading or doing the condemned devotion.

 

Here are two articles which deal with the reasons for omissions and blank pages in TLIG.

http://www.defending-vassula.org/alter-reasons

http://www.defending-vassula.org/alter-omission

 

And look what Vassula tells here about Garabandal :
"Our Blessed Mother was asking me to go to Garabandal and bless the sites where She had appeared and pray over there. This has already been accomplished again in a very simple way. Then Jesus had asked me to meet the children. He had asked me to bless them. I never looked for them or "panicked" not knowing their whereabouts, because God had already taught me how He works. He asks for something quite impossible in anyone’s capacity, He expects you to trust Him and lean on Him entirely, then He lays out Himself the way for you to accomplish in peace what He had asked, so long as our spirit is one with His Spirit, every detail He asks is fulfilled. And so I have met Conchita the main seer and talked to the others by phone. Someone had arranged everything for me while I was in the States and Conchita wanted to meet me. This too has been accomplished without me trying. I was invited to go".

To Glenn: Could you not ask Conchita about her encounter with Vassula and her opinion about Vassula's messages. Would that be wrong ?

___________________

And yes, Vassula believes in Purgatory:
"b. The word "Hades" has been changed into "purgatory", so that people may understand it better. Again with God’s permission. My soul is often exposed in purgatory where with the love I have for God and with my daily prayers for the souls, Jesus brings the souls out of purgatory to Him. This was one of the messages that was deleted in Volume I, Trinitas, p.38-39. Handwritten notebook no.8, p.1-2."

 

Timothis, few are theologians who have read and had opinions on Vassula's messages. Of those learned in formal theology study, their is disagreement. I am not a theologian, but have studied theology for 30 years and know the doctrines of our faith well and would never compromise even one of them. I will not be judged (heaven or hell) on reading or listening to Vassula's messages. God respects each of us to use our formed minds for discernment. We are not to be puppets in the prudential order to anyone. You are right, these are the 'end times' as we know it. For this reason I am very cautious about many mystical phenomena's including TLIG messages. I would never condemn those that reject her messages, nor do I condemn those who do read/listen to them. Father Gobbi's writing were much the same way, contested by many and accepted by many. I received wisdom from his writings and have also, to this point, done so with Vassula. I may find something one day that I flat out drop her like a hot potato, but at this point I am still in discernment.

 

Thank you PeterB for this comprehensive message. It confirms my last post.

 

Thank you Peter B. I went through Fr. Gobbi's message concordance under the word UNITY and found that his messages fit and are parallel with Vassulas. He publicly came out and said her messages were true.

 

Just a question, how many people believe that there has been a suppression of apparitions,mystics,and messages during the last 100 years? especially Garabandal and Fatima. How many believe this might have been the warning our Lady gave regarding bishop against Bishop, Cardinal against Cardinal? We all understand the liberal vs conservative etc.

 

One has to admit, there has been a huge surpression of the 3rd secret of Fatima and a flat out lie in reference to those in the Vatican and elsewhere who have contended that the Consecration to RUSSIA has been done. In reference to Garabandal, it is not even discussed on most levels, becuase its message has been surpressed so badly. Many false accusations, distortions and lies told on both of these apparitions. The Evil One is a liar and will twist truth till it is rejected. Be cautious, but do not reject what is of God without studying yourself if possible. I made that mistake believing for nearly 3 decades the lies about Father Gruner. Even those who still think he is bad news, have never given him the time to listen to him. I believe the same is with Vassula. How many who reject her are doing so on the word of others without personal prayer and discernment? I am not sure if the Vatican ever rejected Father Gobbi's writtings, but would be interested to know if they ever supported him either.

 

Pope Francis http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=19966
“Yes, for me ecumenism is a priority,” the Pope said in response to a question on ecumenism. “Today there is an ecumenism of blood. In some countries they kill Christians for wearing a cross or having a Bible and before they kill them they do not ask them whether they are Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic or Orthodox. Their blood is mixed. To those who kill, we are Christians. We are united in blood, even though we have not yet managed to take necessary steps towards unity between us, and perhaps the time has not yet come. Unity is a gift that we need to ask for.”