Good morning Jane On page 17 you posed a reply to me which I want to respond to, in light of your post above about yet another seer. I agree with you about all these revelations given to numerous people. I do not think they are at all from God – not least because they say numerous different things. You are quite correct to advise prudence and caution when dealing with any apparition. You make valid points regarding the visionaries in Medj. amassing personal wealth and just what this means for the message of Medj. itself. I think though regarding Medj. that it is possible to separate the message from the messenger. I would view Medj at the very least as a good example (if it is satanical) of God drawing good from bad. I actually do not believe this – I think Medj. IS from God (as is Garabandal) and its fruits are enormously good so I would separate the messenger (who like the rest of us will fall a thousand times a day) from the message. Since I think Medj. is from Good, I also accept that the messengers are those whom God chose….they may not be heroic in their depth of Faith, but I have no doubt that God will move them along that path, as he has moved countless others though Medj. itself. All in all, Medj. to me does so much good that it must be viewed from that point. I will at the end of the day however follow the Church on this – if they declare it false, then I will abide by that decision, although it will hurt me personally. Thats my two pence worth anyway about Medjujorge. I think you are right in what you say in your above post regarding Catholicism being the one true faith. It seems to me that God cannot diminish that which he said up through Our Lord, against that however, I believe that God loves all - Catholic and Non-Catholic alike and he may well in his infinate mercy reach out to those who do not know him in the fullness of Catholicism. Who is to say that he will not in the end use a non-Catholic to draw others into the Church? FoundSoul.
Dear Found soul. Every time I try and get off Medjugorje someone talks to me about it. I am upset about it all at the moment. But I really believe God is stiring me to stay active. What you have just posted tells me you seem like a humble person. Thankyou for supporting me on the decision on ignoring this new protestant prophet. We are living in confusing times. I think it is better to believe in God than not to believe. But I also think it is better NOT to believe in an alleged, not yet approved prophet than to believe, especially if there is any doubts around it. Best to go hungry than to be fed by poisonous food. I recognise ALL the good fruits of Medjugorje, even though some people think I am blind to them. I am not. Today, I can't, I am not up to bringing it all up again. It really needs a rest. But I have been in very deep thought this week. I was thinking about Jesus. I was thinking about Him talking about the 'good fruits'. i was thinking about Jesus when He talks about a tree with rotten fruit and a tree with good fruit. I thought.... What about a tree that is full of good fruits, but has rotten fruit in amongst it? This is food for thought. God Bless you FoundSoul. I pray that you and all on this forum, and I, will be shown the truth, one way or the other.
Dear Jane, Since I know very little (basically nothing at all) about all these alleged visionaries, I was lothe to reply to you, but felt I should. I should have realised you would need a rest - go and have it. But the sake of people like me, don't forget about posting some more....I really think we need people like you to help us stay on the right track. FoundSoul.
You moved my heart. I feel as if many here see me as one of Satan's followers. Yes. I am a sinner. But I am trying so hard to be a better person. I often fall, but I get back up again. I believe with all my heart in the Catholic faith. I know I don't love the Lord as much as I should. But I will stand up for Him. If i feel something isn't how Jesus would want it, I will speak. This doesn't make me popular. I'm sorry that I said I need a rest. That was selfish of me. I heard the priest say in his homily last week about being diligent, I felt he was talking to me. Feel free to ask me a question. I will answer it honestly to the best of my knowledge. I have guests staying at my home during this month, so it can be difficult to find time on the computor. But I do want to bring up something soon. Something I started earlier on this thread, but didn't get to finish it. I feel it is relevant for our times. Cheers!
The amount of prophecies on the internet lately is mind boggling! I also don't even look at the ones that are not Catholic. To me, if they don't feel moved right away after an experiance from God to find the Truth, and the True Church, then it was probably either not from God, or it certainly wasn't something meant to be publicised. One who refuses to be obedient to Jesus' true Church, is certainly not ready to pick up the cross and be obedient to death. People say they will obey Jesus, but then they refuse to obey those that Jesus puts in authority over them! I was wondering Jane, if you have had any supernatural experiences in prayer yourself? I'm only asking as I think that also makes a difference on how and if we believe in other's experiences. I have had them, and I think that makes me more apt to believe that others have had them too, but also makes me look alot more at the daily life of the seer to discriminate. I am no saint, and struggle with venial sin, but would NEVER let myself commit mortal sin because of how it would hurt Jesus, and also for fear of my salvation. So I think anyone that truly has had an experience from God would be living a really holy life, not in any kind of mortal sin like re-marriage or adultry of any kind, not causing any scandal, not being openly disobedient to the Catholic Church, notably prayerful, joyful, etc.. I too am enjoying hearing everyones views and although I have always felt extrememly drawn to Garabandal, I have never felt drawn to Medjugorje, nor have really followed it, but haven't thought much about whether I believed it or not, as none of the messages seemed anything other than spiritual milk, designed to help people convert. There was never any new messages "for me' as I was already doing what the Virgin asked since my conversion in1997. I guess I just don't know much about it and have never felt drawn to find out about it.
Yes it is mind boggling. That's why I started this thread. As even on this forum prophecies that are condemned were being spoken of as if true. I was getting confused. i felt people needed to know truths. In 2010 I had a supernatual experience during prayer. But I was too overpowered by it. I didn't know how to deal with the presence of Our Lady (in spirit), I had tears running from my eyes. I was bothered because I was with someone to whom I was praying for. I was recieving a gift, and I felt it should have been the lady I was with and praying for recieving this gift, not me. The presence was so great. But I couldn't get out of the church quick enough. I know that may sound strange to many. Why run from something so beautiful? I do regret it. I have been to Garabandal twice. 2011 and 2012. Both times I felt a strong presence of Our Heavenly Mother while at 'the pines' in prayer, but more so the first time. I don't expect to recieve anymore than what I have. But I am ever so restless at night. My mind is alive. Carmel333. I have never doubted anyones experiences here. I believe all they have told me. But I really believe, if someone has the privilege of having Divine messages their lives would be ever so humble.
But I really believe, if someone has the privilege of having Divine messages their lives would be ever so humble.[/quote] Yes I believe that too. If anything, it is truly a life transforming experience, and one is NEVER the same again, hence, trying very hard to love and please God from that time forward. Of course they can and probably will fall from time to time, but they would be constantly re-evaluating their lives and trying to reform. I too am disconcerted about what I have heard from here about Ivan. The others seem to be very humble and devout. I did pray about it, and Jesus put the scripture about Judas into my thoughts. How He loved Judas and let him be an Apostle, but even those around Jesus knew that Judas was "no good" and wondered at Jesus putting Judas in such a place that he held the money bag. Is it possible that the rest ARE genuine, and Ivan has perhaps "fallen away"? As I said, its not an apparition I have ever felt drawn to follow, so do not know much about it. I don't think I would be in danger of following any apparition into sin or error, simply because I beg Jesus and my guardian angel daily to keep me safe from this. I also spent many years getting to know the Catholic Faith, so that I could see error when it comes, mostly so that I would not be deceived in what I was receiving. When people do not care enough to know their scripture, and the Church teachings, Satan can have a field day!
One of our new members awaitwithjoy has spoken about...... Bayside and Veronica Lueken on another thread. After my conversion 3 years ago, I decided to keep searching the internet for all sorts of apparitions. I read about Bayside. It seemed it could be so true. But for some reason, I couldn't get hooked on it. Now I know it is condemned by the church. Why though? I don't know. I have forgotten nearly everything I read on it. But I will open up conversation about it so maybe we can help awaitwithjoy to find the truth.
I think a problem with alot of these fantastical "seers" is a tendency to draw people in to a point where they won't believe anything unless their favorite "seer" proclaims it. I see this alot on facebook with the MDM followers, who even are pestering the Workers of Garabandal to have Conchita read those messages, and wondering why she does not. The danger is having to come to a point where in your heart you must choose between your favorite seer, and the Catholic Church, which seems fantastical, but some people are very easily led! If the seer really is being misled by Satan, of course at first the messages seem very holy, but later when all the followers are drawn in, Satan can start manipulating them and they will automatically follow. A very wise thing to do, is if you are reading messages, remember that the seer is simply a human, and not a god, and take the good in the messages, throw out the bad, and continue on the narrow path with Christ's Holy Church alone. If there are prophecies against the Church, well, then IF they come to pass, you will be aware of it. But if you know your faith and doctrines, then you cannot be misled even by a Pope, because you will know what he can or cannot change in the teachings.
Carmel333 This is excellent advice and also is my view. I dont get involved in condemnation in case I would cause a prophet of the lord grief but I take what is good like praying for souls. In time all becomes clear. I have gone through the whole nine yards of wondering and challenging seers in the past and I had no peace. Now I leave all that at the feet of the Lord and I continue to pray my rosary DM devotion and the sacraments. I am a follower of the church not any seer but I do read the messages from time to time. Its important to hold on to your peace so if any seer is troubling you cling to the Lord and dont read the messages. Mary
There is an additional problem and it is a very dangerous one. When people realize that the prophecies are not happening and find out that those messages are a fraud. Then many of them will be actually disappointed and will stop praying or even believing in the real message of the Gospel and the Church. I wonder whether you realize that the number of people commenting in the facebook page of MDM is decreasing. Some months ago it was normal to see hundred to hundred and fifty comments. Later I see only thirty to fifty comments per "new message". Now, one think is sure: she is getting some profit with the book she is selling!
With less than 6 weeks until Christmas, don't forget........ Our Lady of La Salette was seen crying in 1846. See was crying because of the blasphemy and because people were not keeping the Sundays as a Holy day, as they were too busy working. So we are 41 days from Christmas. 35 days to do our shopping, so leave the remaining 6 Sundays for God.
THE SECRETS OF LA SALETTE given to Melanie in 1846 I would like to say here. While the Church approves the apparition of La Salette, it has not given approval as yet of the secrets. 1. ‘Melanie, what I am going to tell you now will not always be secret. You will be allowed to publish it in 1858.’ 2. ‘The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their bad life, by their irreverences and their impiety in celebrating the holy mysteries, by love of money, love of honor and of pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity. Yes, the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is suspended over their heads. Woe to the priests and to persons consecrated to God, who by their infidelities and their bad life are crucifying anew my Son! The sins of persons consecrated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and see how vengeance is at their doors, because there is no longer found anyone to implore mercy and forgiveness for the people; there are no longer generous souls, there is no longer anyone worthy to offer the Victim without blemish to the Eternal on behalf of the world.’ 3. ‘God is going to strike in a manner without example.’ 4. ‘Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! God is going to exhaust His wrath, and no one will be able to take himself away from so many afflictions combined.’ 5. ‘The leaders, the guides of the people of God have neglected prayer and penance, and the demon has obscured their intelligence; they have become these wandering stars that the old devil will drag along with his tail to make them perish. God will permit the old serpent to place divisions among rulers, in all societies and in all families; physical and moral pains will be suffered; God will abandon men to themselves, and will send chastisements which will follow one after another for more than thirty-five years.’ 6. ‘Society is on the eve of the most terrible scourges and of the greatest events; one must expect to be ruled with an iron rod and to drink the chalice of the wrath of God.’ 7. ‘May the Vicar of my Son, the sovereign Pontiff Pius IX, no longer leave Rome after the year 1859; but may he be firm and generous, may he fight with the weapons of faith and love; I will be with him.’ 8. ‘May he be wary of Napoleon; his heart is double, and when he will want to be at the same time Pope and emperor, soon God will withdraw from him: he is this eagle who, wanting always to raise himself up, will fall on the sword which he wanted to use in order to force the peoples to raise him up.’ 9. ‘Italy will be punished for her ambition in wanting to shake off the yoke of the Lord of Lords; also she will be delivered over to war; blood will flow on all sides; the Churches will be closed or desecrated; the priests, the religious will be hunted; they will be made to die, and to die a cruel death. Several will abandon the faith, and the number of priests and religious who will separate themselves from the true religion will be great; Among these persons there will be found even some Bishops.’ 10. ‘May the Pope keep himself on guard against the performers of miracles, because the time has come when the most astonishing wonders will take place on the earth and in the air.’ 11. ‘In the year 1864, Lucifer with a great number of demons will be unleashed from hell; they will abolish the faith little by little and even in persons consecrated to God; they will blind them in such a way that barring a particular grace these persons will take on the spirit of these bad angels: several religious houses will lose the faith entirely and will lose many souls.’ 12. ‘Bad books will abound on earth, and the spirits of darkness will spread everywhere a universal slackening in all that concerns the service of God; they will have a very great power over nature: there will be churches to serve these spirits. Some persons will be transported from one place to another by these bad spirits and even some priests, because they will not be guiding themselves by the good spirit of the Gospel, which is a spirit of humility, charity and zeal for the glory of God. The dead and the just will be made to revive.’ [That is to say that these dead will take the appearance of just souls who had lived on earth, so as to better mislead men: these so-called resurrected dead, who will be nothing other than the demon under these appearances, will preach another Gospel contrary to the one of the true Christ Jesus, denying the existence of heaven, or they may also be the souls of the damned. All these souls will appear as if united to their bodies.] ‘There will be in all places extraordinary wonders, because the true faith is dying out and because false light enlightens the world. Woe to the Princes of the Church who will not be occupied except to pile riches upon riches, to safeguard their authority and to dominate with pride.’
continue with secrets... [Melanie added the comment (in brackets and italics above) about the dead and righteous who will appear to be brought back to life. In a letter to Abbé Combe, the editor of the 1904 edition of Le Secret De Melanie, she states that she made this comment ‘according to the Vision which I had in the moment that the very Blessed Virgin was speaking of the resurrection of the dead.’(Le Secret De Melanie, p. 29-30).] 13. ‘The Vicar of my Son will have much to suffer, because for a time the Church will be delivered over to great persecutions: this will be the time of darkness; the Church will have a frightful crisis.’ 14. ‘The holy faith of God being forgotten, each individual will want to be guided by himself and to be superior to his peers. Civil and ecclesiastical powers will be abolished, all order and all justice will be trampled underfoot; one will see only homicides, hatred, jealousy, lying and discord, without love for country, or for family.’ 15. ‘The holy Father will suffer much. I will be with him until the end to receive his sacrifice.’ 16. ‘The wicked will make an attempt several times on his life without power to do harm to his days; but neither he, nor his successor [who will not reign long,] will see the triumph of the Church of God.’ 17.‘Civil rulers will have all one same design which will be to abolish, and to make disappear all religious principle, in order to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and all kinds of vices.’ 18. ‘In the year 1865, the abomination will be seen in holy places; in convents, the flowers of the Church will be decayed and the demon will make himself as the king of hearts. May those who are at the head of religious communities keep themselves on guard for persons whom they must receive, because the demon will use of all his malice in order to introduce into religious orders persons devoted to sin, for disorders and the love of carnal pleasures will be spread by all the earth.’ 19. ‘France, Italy, Spain and England will be in war; blood will flow in the streets; Frenchman will fight with Frenchman, Italian with Italian; subsequently there will be a general war which will be appalling. For a time, God will no longer be mindful of France or Italy, because the Gospel of Jesus Christ is no longer known. The wicked will deploy all their malice; they will kill themselves, they will massacre themselves mutually even in the houses.’ 20. ‘At the first stroke of His lightning sword, the mountains and the whole of nature will tremble with terror, because the disorders and the crimes of men pierce the vault of the heavens. Paris will be burned and Marseilles engulfed; several great cities will be shaken and engulfed by earthquakes: it will be believed that all is lost: only homicides will be seen, only the noise of weapons and blasphemies will be heard. The just will suffer much; their prayers, their penances and their tears will climb even up to heaven and all the people of God will ask for forgiveness and mercy, and will ask for my help and my intercession. Then Jesus Christ by an act of His justice and of His great mercy for the just, will command to His angels that all His enemies be put to death. All at once the persecutors of the Church of Jesus Christ and all men devoted to sin will perish, and the earth will become like a desert. Then peace, the reconciliation of God with men will be made; Jesus Christ will be served, adored and glorified; charity will flower everywhere. The new kings will be the right arm of the holy Church, which will be strong, humble, pious, poor, zealous and imitator of the virtues of Jesus Christ. The Gospel will be preached everywhere and men will make great progress in the faith, because there will be unity among the workers of Jesus Christ and because men will live in the fear of God.’ 21. ‘This peace among men will not be long; 25 years of abundant harvests will make them forget that the sins of men are the cause of all the pains which come upon the earth.’ 22. ‘A forerunner of the antichrist with his troops from several nations will fight against the true Christ, the only Savior of the world; he will spill much blood, and will want to annihilate the worship of God in order to make himself be looked upon as a God.’ 23. ‘The earth will be struck all kinds of plagues [in addition to pestilence and famine which will be general]; there will be wars until the last war, which will then be made by the ten kings of the antichrist, which kings will have all one same design and will be the only ones who will rule the world. Before these arrive, there will be a type of false peace in the world; one will think only about amusing oneself; the wicked will deliver themselves over to all kinds of sin, but the children of the holy Church, the children of the faith, my true imitators, will grow in the love of God and in the virtues which are dear to me. Happy the humble souls guided by the Holy Spirit! I will fight with them until they arrive at the fullness of the age.’ 24. ‘Nature is asking for vengeance for men, and she shudders with terror in waiting for that which must come upon the earth soiled with crimes.’ 25. ‘Tremble, earth and you who make profession of serving Jesus Christ and who on the inside you adore yourselves, tremble; for God is going to deliver you over to His enemy, because the holy places are in corruption; many convents are no longer houses of God, but the pastures of Asmodeas and his sort.’ 26. ‘It will be during this time that the antichrist will be born of a Hebrew religious, of a false Virgin who will have communication with the old serpent, the master of impurity; his father will be Bishop; at birth, he will vomit blasphemies, he will have teeth; in a word, this will be the devil incarnate; he will let out frightening cries, he will perform wonders, he will nourish himself only on impurities. He will have brothers who, although they will not be like him demons incarnate, will be children of evil; at 12 years, they will make themselves noticed by their brilliant victories which they will win; soon, they will each be at the head of armies, assisted by the legions of hell.’
secrets continue.... [Melanie also commented on this point, as follows: ‘It is said that the antichrist will be the devil incarnate, that is to say that he will be entirely possessed. I have seen that the good God does not permit the demon to personally incarnate himself in a human soul and body, but that the demon under a visible form will have familiar relations with the parents of the antichrist, and that they will consecrate him to his service from the first moment of his existence.’ (Le Secret De Melanie, p. 55). She wrote this comment at the end of her handwritten copy of the secret, the one which she gave to Abbé Combe for the 1904 edition of Le Secret De Melanie.] 27. ‘The seasons will be changed, the earth will produce only bad fruits, the stars will lose their regular movements, the moon will reflect only a feeble reddish light; water and fire will give to the globe of the earth convulsive movements and horrible earthquakes which will cause to be engulfed mountains, cities [etc.].’ [The editor of the 1904 edition adds the following note concerning this paragraph: ‘I have from Melanie that this etc. is not made part of the text. The Blessed Virgin showed her other cataclysms without naming them and without pronouncing the word etc. ’ (Le Secret De Melanie, p.57.)] 28.‘Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist.’ 29. ‘The demons of the air with the antichrist will perform great wonders on the earth and in the air, and men will corrupt themselves more and more. God will have care of His faithful servants and men of good will; the Gospel will be preached everywhere, all peoples and all nations will have knowledge of the truth!’ 30. ‘I address a pressing appeal to the earth: I call upon the true disciples of God living and reigning in the heavens; I call upon the true imitators of Christ made man, the only and true savior of men; I call upon my children, my true devotees, those who have given themselves to me so that I may guide them to my divine Son, those whom I carry so to speak in my arms, those who have lived by my spirit; finally I call upon the Apostles of the last times, the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ who have lived in a contempt for the world and for themselves, in poverty and in humility, in contempt and in silence, in prayer and in mortification, in chastity and in union with God, in suffering and unknown to the world. It is time that they go out and come to enlighten the earth. Go, and show yourselves as my dear children; I am with you and in you, provided that your faith be the light which enlightens you in these days of woe. May your zeal render you like the starving for the glory and honor of Jesus Christ. Fight, children of light, you the small number who can see; for behold the time of times, the end of ends.’ 31. ‘The Church will be eclipsed, the world will be in consternation. But behold Enoch and Elie filled with the Spirit of God; they will preach with the strength of God, and men of good will will believe in God, and many souls will be consoled; they will make great progress by the virtue of the Holy Spirit and will condemn the devilish errors of the antichrist.’ [Abbé Combe, the editor of the 1904 edition, adds the following note after this paragraph. ‘I have from Melanie that the Church will be eclipsed in this sense, that 1) one will not know which is the true pope; 2) for a time: the holy Sacrifice will cease to be offered in churches, and also in houses: so there will be no more public worship. But she saw that yet the holy Sacrifice would not cease: it would be offered in caves, in tunnels, in barns and in alcoves.’] 32. ‘Woe to the inhabitants of the earth! there will be bloody wars and famines; pestilences and contagious diseases; there will be rains of a dreadful hail of animals, thunders which will shake cities, earthquakes which will engulf countries; voices will be heard in the air, men will beat their head against the walls, they will call upon death, and on another side death will be their torture; blood will flow on all sides. Who will be able to overcome, if God does not shorten the time of the ordeal? By the blood, the tears and the prayers of the just, God will let Himself be swayed, Enoch and Elie will be put to death; pagan Rome will disappear; fire from Heaven will fall and will consume three cities; all the universe will be struck with terror, and many will let themselves be misled because they have not adored the true Christ living among them. It is time; the sun darkens; faith alone will live.’ 33. ‘Behold the time; the abyss opens. Behold the king of kings of darkness. Behold the beast with his subjects, calling himself the savior of the world. He will raise himself up with pride into the air in order to go even up to heaven; he will be smothered by the breath of the holy Archangel Michael. He will fall, and the earth which for three days will be in continual evolutions, will open its bosom full of fire; he will be plunged for ever with all his own into the eternal chasms of hell. Then water and fire will purify the earth and will consume all the works of the pride of men, and all will be renewed: God will be served and glorified.’
THE SECRETS OF LA SALETTE Sorry about the small print on the previous posts. I don't know how to copy and paste so I got my son to do it for me. There is a lot to these secrets. Can anyone find fault in them? The only reason I see why the church won't acknowledge the secrets as truth, is the same reason they haven't accepted Garabandal yet. There is talk about our priests and Bishops not leading good lives. Especially with the La Salette 26th message about the antiChrist being born by a Hebrew nun, a false virgin who will comunicate with the serpent the master of impurity, his father will be a Bishop. The Church (understandably) can't accept this kind of talk about their priest of bishops. It is in these secrets where I come to understand there will be 25 years of false peace, maybe after the miracle??? HELP!!! Can anyone help on these secrets?
No one has helped me here so I will attempt to try and bring some understanding to the secrets of La Salette. Please correct me if you see what I suggest as not scripture/prophecy possible. This is the order I see things are meant to happen. Secrets 1 - 11 seem simple to understand. Although, I don't quite get secret 8 about Napoleon. Secret 12. The dead will revive. Saying these so called resurrected dead are nothing but demons under the appearance of just souls, who will preach a Gospel contrary to the true Jesus Christ. Secret 20. Could this be the warning or miracle time??? Then Jesus Christ through an act of His justice and His great mercy for the just, will command His Anglels that all His enermies be put to death. Secret 21. This is when there is 25 years of peace. Secret 22. Then the forerunner of the antiChrist from many nations will fight against Christ. He will spill much blood and make himself as a god. Then we have the 3 days of darkness before judgement day. "Approved" Brother Stanley was told by Jesus that he will witness The Second Coming. The Bible says the same generation will witness it all too. So I would think if you are under 60 years of age, with good health, you stand a good chance of seeing it all. Does this make sense? Is there something that contradicts the bible or other prophecies? Remember. While the apparitions of Our Lady at La Salette is approved. I'm under the understanding the secrets aren't.
I have always struggled a little with La Salette. Maelanie, one of the visionaries was later a Camrmelite nun in Darlington , England. She threw a piece of paper out the window there claiming she wa sbeing held prisoner. She then fled the convent winding up in Sicily where the local Bishop gave her full support. I am not saying it is not true just it ..well I don't altogether treat it wothout a pinch of salt. I think there were serious questions about the behaviour of the other visionary too. Another thing..the way Our LAdy was dressed at La Salette , in contemporary costume , shawl and strange head dress. Well I know of no other authentic vision in which MAry did not appear in traditional dress, as she would have worn will alive... I am not saying La Salette is not true, just...well I am careful not to give full credence.
