Sorry Jane. I thought it was you that stated that about the ice-cream. And I can be a little blunt sometimes . But no harm is intended. I honestly don't know of the luxury. I have been trying to google, and can't find anything. I am sorry, I didn't mean to cause confusion. I was using the two Patricks as an example. Believe me, if you don't know about them, you aren't missing much. Did you see my link on the false prophets here? one who is going to come who calls himself the christ? Yes as Alviso says it is new age nonsense, but has no one thought that it might come through this means? More and more catholics are getting sucked into this nonsense. And everyone wants to rid themselves of guilt, not to change, but to justify living as they are.
I think I am pretty much done with this thread. As I initially stated on the topic, we could debate Medj until we are blue in the face, and I think it has hit that point for me. Some parting words on the topic from me... Jane - Your desire to knock Medj down is, in my opinion, over the top. You started with having concerns about disobediance, Ivan's wealth, etc., which are all very valid concerns. But that has grown to thinking Medj is the evil that will deceive even the elect (which Garabandal has stated that refers to the anti-christ and not Medj), to implying that followers who die while believing in Medj will have died believing in something from satan and that is not good for our salvation, to now the quote from Matthew, implying that Medj followers will be told by God to get away evil do-ers. All the while it seems you are ignoring some important considerations of discernment: -the witness and testimony of those who have been there -many, many conversions - which are the good fruits of Medj -the lines at confession there -the content of the messages - beautiful and nothing against church teaching. I think what Mary's Child has stated is something you really need to contemplate. That is: A lot of conversions could be stopped. This is one of my concerns too, as it relates to your postings. This forum has a lot of reach, and you may not realize the power of your negative words. If someone is starting to be woken up by Medj and they are led to this forum by the Mother of God, and read your postings on Medj....well, that could stop a potential conversion. You could be scaring people into not promoting Medj to others, which again stops conversions. Also you may scare away people from joining and posting on this forum if they want to talk about their positive Medj experience...they may be wary of your response. So, those are my thoughts...blunt they may be! My last piece of advice to you Jane is what I started with...let it go...put it in your rear view mirror...move on with your conversion without Medj until the commission has published a conclusion.
Well, I spent many times here, trying my best with all the respect for any members, the Mother of God is the name of this Forum, now if the name is the Mother of Medjugorje, please tell it, this thread is very interested as I already said, I will finish in French and directly to my Brother. Padraig, si tu penses que nous ne pouvons pas nous exprimer sur Medjugorje, merci de me le confirmer, dans ce cas, je ne vois pas l'intérêt de rester ici, merci d'avance pour ta réponse mon Frère et que celle ci soit officielle et visible pour nous tous. Aviso
That is very unfair Aviso. It is indeed the Mother of God and we all love her here. It is very unfair to say believe in Garabandal not Medjugorje, and the last thing Mother Mary would want would be bickering. I could argue that it isn't the Mother of Garabandal forums either, but this would be wrong, for she is the mother of us all..
Aviso, be happy, we all love Mother Mary and we all love our Roman Catholic Faith, I hope we meet one day in Heaven.
I'm not quite sure I understand your post. I was stating that I am personally done with this thread, but you are free to continue talking about Medj. I feel as if I'm banging my head against a wall so I'm letting this thread go. I do feel some posts on here regarding followers of Medj are over the top, specifically #290 (if you die believing in a false prophet...) and #303. My concern is mainly around potentially stopping conversions and scaring off pro-Medj people who may be thinking of joining this forum. It is one thing to not believe in Medj (which is totally acceptable), but another to continually bash it down while ignoring the good fruits and conversions.
Look back at every time Medjugorje was talked about in this thread. Did I start the conversation? No. Questions were asked to me. This thread is not only on Medjugorje. I have talked about many other things. I am many things, but I am a very fair person. I have looked on both sides. My eyes are open both ways. Have I not spoke honestly? If you or anyone think conversion is a reason for an apparition site to be authentic, you are so wrong! I recently said a man at prayer group was converted because of Vassula Ryden. She gives messages supposively from Jesus. Should we listen to those messages just because he was converted, even though these messages have been condemned? People are probably being converted because of MDM's messages too. The church hasn't condemned them yet, but this doesn't mean they are true either. Can you please answer me this question? Have you ever looked at the bad fruits of Medjugorje?
Last night, I thought..... "Why should I bother? It makes no difference to me or my family." Because this is a real 'headache'. But then I realised. It is for souls. It is for the love of God. Maybe I love God better than what I realised.
TRUE PROPHECIES/FALSE PROPHECIES? How can we tell? OBEDIENCE. Have you heard about Father Vego, Father Prusina, Father Vlasic and Father Zovko? I will not talk about it, I suggest you find out yourself, because what they have done is not my point here. My point is that Our Lady believes we should obey our Bishop. After the Bishop had removed to Father Vego. 3rd Jan 1982. The Virgin said "Vego is not guilty, let him stay all the same. The Bishop is not putting things in order and for that he is to blame." 11th Jan 1982. Vicka writes in her dairy. "The Virgin is against the Bishop." 20th Jan 1982. The seers ask about the priests being excluded form their order form Rome. The Virgin replies. "They are not guilty. In this decision they have acted hastely. Let them stay." Between 16-26 April 1982. The Virgin spoke against the Bishop again. By this time masses, confessions etc were being said by these priests. This is SACRILEGIOUS. 34 out of 35 Bishops agree with condemnation. DEC 1983 Bishop Zanic had published..... QUOTE. "It seems the promoters of Medjugorje are busy creating a situation, by means of propagander such as the church authority will never dare oppose. But the church has no needs of counter truths in order to defend the faith. The truth must be presented although it is disagreeable. And concerning the 'Virgin' support of rebellious priests...... THERE HAS BEEN NO PEACE IN HERZEGOVINA FOR 15 YEARS. Half the Franciscans resist the alleged messages of the Blessed Virgin at Medjugorje. The present provincial, his collaborators and the other half of the Franciscans are working to restore peace with the Bishop. They do not believe the apparitions. This on account of Medjugorje and the 'Queen of Peace', there is even more tension and disquiet. Regina pacis, or pro nobis!"
For 2000 years we have celebrated Mary's Birthday on 8th September. Why at Medjugorje would Our Lady tell us different? If you believe the messages at Medjugorje, Her birthday is 5th August??? The church better change the date of "The Immaculate Conception." Another sign of dividing the faithful.
10th January 1982 Mirijana tells of a strange apparition, where from the light which normally proceeds the Virgin's arrival. Satan emerged, half diabolical, half disguised under the features of Mary. Finally the vision of Satan change entirely into a vision of Mary. "The Virgin programmed the entire sequence in order to test us." said Mirjana. Bishop Zanic said.... "It is not the Virgin appearing at Medjugorje." Archbishop Cardinal Kuhric said.... "It is not the Virgin appearing at Medjugorje." Lucia of Fatima said.... "It is not the Virgin appearing at Medjugorje." The money being made was enough for me to realise something is terribly wrong here. I can not understand with all the information that has been given anyone can believe. Don't forget the video on page 4 #56 Don't forget the video on page 3 #70 I AM NOW ENTIRELY OVER THIS. I DO NOT WANT TO SAY ANYMORE, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS MORE. I continue to pray for all of you who read this forum, And I ask The Good Lord that we can all see the truth. God Bless and be with you.
I will let the Medj commission sort out the bad fruit and come to a conclusion. As I mentioned, there is too much mis-information out there on Medj. That is why the commission was established and we need to listen to the vatican and their findings. I have already provided my witness/testimony, so I won't repeat it. I will clarify though that I was not saved by Medj per say. But Medj is the reason for my conversion. I was skipping along the wide path of secularism and enjoying life on my own terms. When I heard of Medj approximately 20 years ago and starting to read the messages, I was captivated that the Mother of God was appearing there to seers my age talking about secrets that will happen in my generation. It still took a few years, but I slowly moved from the wide path that I was on to the narrow path of conversion. Medj even provided the game plan for how to convert...the 5 stones. Actually, I first had to look up the word conversion in the dictionary, because I did not know what it meant. I have slowly and sometimes painfully been trying to change my life and convert. The monthly messages keep me going and are inspirational. So, the apparition site did not convert me...I decided I wanted to convert by using the 5 stones taught at Medj and be a real catholic...and try to become an apostle for these times. Would I have chosen this path without Medj...I know the answer is no. I believe others have addressed your point on people converting by unapproved apparitions.
Jane - can you provide evidence for the above quotes. Can you tell us where did you get the information? Was it from a book, an internet site or other source?
I can only agree with Jane. If Medjugorje is a hoax this can be very dangerous for our faith. First, the apparitions of Medjugorje are surrounded with a hallo of disobedience to the Church. Good prove of this are the priests who decided to go on despite the prohibition of the Church. The already famous messages of the Virgin inducing to disobedience to the Bishops and to the Church is a big big red flag and should be sufficient to doubt about the authenticity of this apparitions. For me this is sufficient. Second, everybody quotes the medical examination done to the seers but those examinations are no published anywhere. On top of it, if you find the result of those examinations in internet it is said that the seers are always in ecstasy state and that they do not react to the external world. This is absolutely contradictory with the videos you can find where the seers are indeed reacting to the manipulation due to the examinations. Third, the famous fruits of conversions are the only thing can be seriously argued by the people supporting Medjugorje but, at the same time, they cannot admit that the seers and the communities around this event are getting a big economical advantage out of it: a serious “no way” to admit an apparition as real. MDM is also inducing conversions. Just look at the faacebook page and what people are saying. There are converting to a better life by reading those messages!!! Is MDM a real apparition? Most of the people here think it is not. I would be very very careful to take all these conversions as prove. What would happen to all these people if the Church declares: “Non-constat de supernaturalitate” or even “Constat de non supernaturalitate”? I do not want even to imagine the big deception. What would happen to all these people? It could also be the first steps even of a schism. No, conversion alone does not prove anything. Four, what is the sense of these apparitions? More than 40.000 messages??? Why does the Virgin need to appear every single day to two or three people and also taking part of big scheduled shows?????????? What is the novelty of all these messages? Why every day? Sorry: I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS! But, do not take me wrong I respect all you who believe in this. Every one is free to believe on this matters. On the other side, and just as matter of curiosity: I was just going to a great number of approved apparitions looking for references of the Virgin to satan. I could not find anything at least among the last and most known recent approved apparitions. MDM and Medjugorge messages are plenty of references about satan. (?). You cannot find them in Lourdes, Fatima etc… This is only my opinion. Let the Church decide, but, to be honest, I do not think the Church is going to declare “Constat de supernaturalitate” in this case. There are a lot of points against. Have a nice weekend, Jose
If they are true conversions they will hold fast to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, and although shocked their faith will get them through.
Potatosack, The five stones: 1. Daily Prayer (Rosary) 2. Fasting on Wednesday and Fridays 3. Daily Reading of the Bible 4. Monthly Confession 5. Holy Communion There is nothing new about these five stones. Why did you need Medjugorge for you conversion if those "stones" have been preached by different religious orders and institutions of the Church and the Church itself since centuries? Seriously, I do not understand that you said you would have not chosen this path without Medjugorje.
I would just like to add one more thing. If all the prophecies turned out to be false, it would be a huge shock! And I mean all the unapproved prophecies everywhere. But, I would continue on with my faith. If there is one good lesson that I have learned in life it is to put your trust in God, not in man. I don't even trust myself. If someone said to me, are you going to be faithful to God for the rest of your days? Well, I don't even trust myself for that, I trust God and Our Blessed Mother to get me through that. All I have to do is to have one hand holding on to Jesus and the other holding on to Mary. Other than the sacraments, which we all know. The Rosary keeps my hand in Mary's and Eucharist Adoration keeps me close to Jesus. I will even say to Mother Mary "Please get me here tomorrow" (church) stay with me giving me the graces to pray.. I really do rely on them for everything. That doesn't mean I am lazy, don't get things for myself etc. I am talking about spiritual matters here. I found that is when I grew and the prayer went to the depths of my soul when I realized this little 'nugget'. God is my refuge, in him I put my trust.
TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST, We are all brothers and sisters in the face of God. And while I don't know any of you presonally, I have learnt to love and care for you. Funny, LOVE is somthing I believed I had little of. But in the past 2 days I have found that I love Jesus more than I realised. True love makes you do things, because you care. If you don't care, you let wrongs go. As I said earlier. It would be easier to let thing go, as it would have made no difference to me or my family. If I didn't care, I would not have ran the risk in having people think and talk bad things of me. It feels so much nicer to be popular and liked. It is now being said we are "bickering". Well I don't see myself as bickering. To 'Potatosack' and others who have been converted because of Medjugorje. My heart aches for you! I sincerely feel your pain. I have asked myself on numerous occasions. "How would you feel if you found out Garabandal was a lie?" To be honest, I would feel decieved and hurt. But I would have also felt greatful that I learnt this before it is too late. For those who were converted because of Medjugorje. You are the lucky ones, because now you have seen the other side of the story. But your faith should not be any different. Mary is there to help lead us to Christ. That is our conversion! Sadly, I believe there will be those of you who will pay no attention to the 'bad fruits' of Medjugorje. There are only 2 spirits. 1. The Holy Spirit. 2. An evil spirit. "IF POSSIBLE, EVEN THE ELECT WILL FOLLOW." On this thread, I have been honest and fair. I have OPENLY talked about many apparitions. I have invited people to help me see the other side. I WAS NOT AT ANY STAGE CLOSED MINDED! I did not want to mention other 'bad fruits' of Medjugorje. As a once believer in Medjugorje. My mind quicky did a U turn once I realised and saw the money being made. This alone should tell everyone, "something is wrong." But with me saying about this, excuses were made. The video is a witness on there is a serious problem. "Mary droping baby Jesus". Seriously? Why not move forward and try to catch Him then? But still hearts could not be moved. Then there is the fact Our Lady's feet, they are never seen in Medjugorje. The fact where in a vision Satan appeared, then changed into Mary. But still hearts could not be moved. What does it take? There is even more than what I meantioned. I take back when I said "I will not speak any more on this subject" This thread is still open for talks on any true or false apparition. I have read all the messages of Medjugorje of the 2nd and 25th of the month too. Plus I have read the ones in between. I will go back to other prophecies too in which I see a possible connection to Medjugorje. I will continue to have a open mind, be honest and fair, because at the end of the day, we all want to end up with Jesus in Heaven. God Bless you all!
