The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I agree with you. I took it to mean to pray for the next Pope to be elected. Mercy is at your door, to me it was positive. God will show mercy soon.
     
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  2. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Yes
     
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  3. PurpleFlower

    PurpleFlower Powers

    I interpreted it the same as you, Padraig. I assumed it was positive. I know nothing about these apparitions/locutions though, so have no opinion on their authenticity.
     
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  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    There are so many false , 'Mystics', now with the onset of the Internet it is impossible to keep any kind of count at all of them all. There must be tens and tens of thousands of them. Of course the huge majority of them totally false for one reason or another. ..and that is only counting suppose, 'Catholic', false Mystics. Many of these poor deluded people have large bands of devoted deluded followers the blind following the totally blind.

    So sad.

    I had an interesting conversation with a young Agnostic film maker, the other week, who is coming to Ireland to make a film on Marian Apparitions on the island.

    I got around to trying to warn him about false mystics, referencing Doctors of the Church, St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila. But he was totally lost at this idea that something might be , 'True' or, 'False' in the field of Mysticism. I think like most people these days he tends to think in terms of Relative rather than Objective Truth. If I think or feel something to be true, well then it is true.

    It's the same with things in the Church. I believe for instance that Jesus Christ actually physically rose from the Dead. I believe He was actually the Saviour of the World, the Son of God and the Third Person of the Blessed of the Blessed Trinity. I believe these things as Objective Truths. No matter how I think or feel about them they are still the Truth.

    But many, many in the Church, especially amongst the Clergy do not hold to objective Truth , not believing that, for instance that the Eucharist really is the Body of Christ.

    So our world has turned into a kind of grey fog or fleeting Shadows rather than Straight Black and whites of Objective reality.

    No wonder we have wound up with armies of False Mystics.
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    This is what perhaps made people like St Padre Pio so attractive to the Faithful. He believed in Truth as an Objective reality. He believed in the Truths of the Faith and made them real in the way he lived his life and said the mass.

    You have only to watch the way Padre Pio said the Mass to know that there was someone who actually believed in the Mystical reality of what he was doing.

     
  6. thomas21

    thomas21 Archangels

    People don’t think about what the word “truth” means. They think that it’s some kind of belief. Truth has to do with reality, and reality doesn’t stop being real because the majority of people believe wrongly.

    Even if a tribe in a jungle does not know arithmetic, 2+2 is still 4, for them as for everyone else. Same it is for all truth, including religious truths.

    It is this understanding of the word “truth” made me realize that just because I believe something it doesn’t mean I cannot be wrong, and I looked for God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  7. AED

    AED Powers

    To me the conversation between Jesus and Pilate is a rich source of meditation on Truth. Jesus is so kind to Pilate as he interrogates Him. He tells the procurator Who He is! These words are just written on my heart: "I came to bear witness to the Truth. He who is of the Truth hears My Voice."
    And poor Pilate answers back "what is truth?" He honestly doesn't know. His mind is so darkened by the world he inhabits. Truth is there in front of him and he can't see it. But in his heart he knows that this Man is innocent. This is the predicament of the "worldly mind." This fog and shadows you speak of is back infecting our world with all these competing so-called truths. And those floating concepts are so often unhinged from any reality. Objective truth is sanity. Natural law is sanity. How cleverly the enemy has removed both in the current culture. But Jesus is the Truth and He still calls to those who genuinely seek truth. More than ever I see the wisdom of being very simple. Very little. "He raises up the lowly...He fills the hungry with good things..." Our Lady's wisdom and humility shines like the Star of the Sea to lead all poor sailors safely home. I yearn for poor lost "modernists" to find their way. I pray for it--especially right in my own family and acquaintances where I see this blindness played out every day. Jesus IS Truth. And the Way. And the Life. Without Him we descend into utter chaos.
     
  8. Byron

    Byron Powers

    Agree wholeheartedly. So sad.
     
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  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Great posts here. Thanks to all.
     
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  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yes, great posts.
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

  12. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Which is why the Holy Father is having these endless, never ending talking sessions (at enormous expense) to reinvent the Church and the Catholic Faith. They do so in the vain hope that they will find something they will all agree on and which might possibly even be true.

    The reason why they do this is that they don't really believe in anything very much at all themselves. The little that they do actually believe in , theyll probably have woken up to morrow morning at not believe in even that anymore.

    If I was to compare the Endless chattering (and very expensive nonsense) of the Amazon Synod to one little old lady sitting on her own in Church and saying the Rosary and to ask myself which is worth more, the little old lady and her rosary beads is worth a thousand times more.

    What's more the little old lady saying her prayers cost no one a dime. Flying in flocks of Native Indians from the Amazon all the way to Rome probably pretty well bankrupted the Church....and for what?

    What good did any of it do apart part massaging Pope Francis's gigantic and totally unwarranted ego?

    True Faith, true belief , naturally tends to the deep silence of a prayerful conversation with God in prayer.

    Not endless expensive international non stop chattering, like a lot of headless, Faithless, Jesuit chickens.

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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  13. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Yes…exactly.
     
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  14. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Beautifully stated!
     
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    There's a very good essay in today's Catholic Thing. I was particularly struck by references to the philosopher Augusto del Noce's comments on Catholic progressives. He described how the progressives have inverted the hope of Pope Leo XIII to convert the world to the principles of the Church into an attempt to bring Catholicism into line with the modern world. Particularly disturbing was del Noce's testimony that while it was possible to debate with Marxist intellectuals, one could not talk to a Catholic progressive. He said that this was because Catholic progressives despise those who do not agree with them, even before they hear a word of what they have to say. He also pointed out how the progressives dismiss the Supernatural, with the effect of rendering Catholicism into merely atheistic social work. This has been coming for a long time as del Noce reminded the reader of (nineteenth century) Auguste Comte's hope of forming an alliance with the Jesuits, whom he thought of as being receptive of his positivist philosophy. Although Augusto del Noce was writing in the late sixties, there is something very current and topical about all this.
     
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  16. AED

    AED Powers

    Wow. Incredible insights.
     
  17. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Augusto del Noce was apparently so able to read the past and the present that he could nearly read the future.
     
  18. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

    Yes, this has been in the pipeline for a very long time. The attached was written by the Anglican Bishop of Oxford in 1930: http://anglicanhistory.org/gore/contra1930.html

    He was worried about the Lambeth decision to further ease the Anglicans' prohibition on contraception which was being pushed by an element in the church and supported by Bishops and ministers on the grounds of making allowances for hard cases. That document could have been written by any faithful Bishop in the Catholic Church these past few decades but especially since 2013. I had to keep reminding myself that it was written by a Bishop of a church founded by a lecherous, murdering adulterer and doomed to failure from its beginning. Were I not aware of that, I could have sworn he was describing the Catholic Church now.

    The Anglicans did what the Bishop warned against: they sanctioned the 'second best' and failed to strengthen the faithful remnant. They wed themselves to the spirit of the day. Look at them now. Rochester Cathedral, for example, installed a shelter skelter in 2019: https://www.eternitynews.com.au/world/uk-cathedrals-become-amusement-parks-to-attract-visitors/. In 2022 it will host the Gaia exhibition https://www.rochestercathedral.org/gaia. God help them, they are blind to the fact that having we themselves to the spirit of that day, they are widowed today. St. John Fisher was the Bishop of Rochester.

    The way things are going, it won't be long before our cathedrals are turned into playgrounds. With pachamama, we were a step ahead of the Anglicans on Gaia veneration. Unlike the Anglicans, we are on a promise from Jesus to be with us to the end, but Jesus didn't promise it would be plain sailing. Stormy waters ahead.
     
  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Father Z has a post today on the Catholic Thing article, with particular emphasis on the del Noce views of Catholic progressives. Father Z, and some of the comments, make a good point about the disdain of such
    progressives for us deplorables and how they merely act to punish us. That they have no actual principled opposition to, for example, the Latin Mass, but hate those who venerate such things and use their opposition towards it as a weapon to punish those they despise. Makes a lot of sense to me.
     
  20. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

    Indigenous prayers, dancing in San Bernardino Synod Mass spark backlash
    [​IMG]Michael Madrigal, a lay minister in the Diocese of San Bernardino, recites the “Native American Prayer to the Four Directions” at the beginning of the diocese’s opening Mass for the Synod on Synodality, Oct. 17, 2021 at Holy Angels Church in Riverside, California./ Screen grab photo of YouTube video.
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    By Joe Bukuras, Shannon Mullen, Carl Bunderson

    Washington, D.C. Newsroom, Oct 23, 2021 / 11:33 am

    The Diocese of San Bernardino says its opening Mass for the Synod on Synodality Oct. 17 sought to celebrate the California diocese’s rich cultural diversity and welcome those on the “periphery” of the Church.

    But the liturgy’s unusual pageantry, featuring liturgical dancers, a Native American prayer to the “four directions,” and the appearance at the end of Mass of a colorfully costumed figure that resembled traditional representations of an Aztec demon, has raised eyebrows and sparked criticism on social media.

    “Paganism in full bloom,” read one comment on YouTube. “This is an absolute disgrace to God and His Holy Church,” stated another.

    The Synod on Synodality is a global consultative process that Pope Francis initiated earlier this month to gather input from Catholics and others around the world about important issues confronting the Church. Many U.S. dioceses held Masses last weekend to inaugurate a yearlong period of listening sessions and other means of soliciting feedback.

    Bishop Alberto Rojas was the main celebrant of the San Bernardino diocese’s approximately two-hour-long opening Mass, held Sunday evening at Queen of Angels Church in Riverside, California. San Bernardino Bishop Emeritus Gerald R. Barnes concelebrated the Mass.

    The live streamed, multi-lingual liturgy began in dramatic fashion. A lay minister who works at a nearby Indian reservation led the procession into the sanctuary, waving a large bird feather with one hand while carrying a basket in the other, to the accompaniment of beating drums.

    After circling the altar and arriving at the lectern, Michael Madrigal, who the diocese identified as a lay minister at St. Joseph Mission Catholic Church on the Soboba Indian Reservation, removed a wooden rattle from the basket and shook it while chanting in a Native American language. Then, in English, he recited the “Native American Prayer of the Four Directions.”

    “We begin to the North,” Madrigal began. “It is the direction of the cool winter snows and ice. It is the direction of our healing medicines from where we receive prayer and ceremony and blessings from our creator. In this direction, we pray for all of our spiritual leaders. We pray for strength and blessings for Pope Francis, as he has called us together for this year of Synod. We pray for all of our bishops, priests, religious, and community leaders. We ask you to give them wisdom, strength for the journey.” Similar prayers directed to the East, South, and West invoked the Trinity and asked God for guidance, healing, and protection.

    You can watch the full Synod Mass in the YouTube video below. The Mass begins at the 7:53 mark. The entrance procession begins at the 11:15 mark. Matachines dancers appear at the 2:03:13 mark.

    Contacted by CNA, a spokesperson for the diocese explained in an email that the prayer’s significance is two-fold. First, the prayer is meant to “reflect the multicultural character of the Diocese and to give voice to Catholic expressions that could be considered on the periphery.”

    Second, “this prayer, by its nature, helps the faithful reflect on the entire web of life that God has created — a central idea in Pope Francis’s [encyclical] Laudato Si.”

    There is a danger, however, that cultural expressions during the Mass can distract from the proper focus on the Eucharist, said Fr. Daniel Cardó, Benedict XVI Chair of Liturgical Studies at St. John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver.

    “There are many occasions in the life of a diocese or a parish for cultural and self-expression, but the Mass is not the place for these,” Cardó wrote in an email to CNA.

    “True and lasting ecclesial unity comes from the Eucharist, not from our well-

    intentioned human experiments,” he stated. “Celebrating the sacraments according to the rubrics and their spirit is the ordinary and simple path for genuine participation in the graces God offers through them.”

    [​IMG]
    Bishop Alberto Rojas of San Bernardino during the diocese’s opening Mass for the Synod on Synodality, Oct. 17, 2021 at Queen of Angels Church in Riverside, California. Screen grab photo of YouTube video.
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    In his homily, Rojas described the synodal path as an invitation to listen to and welcome “all the people in the margins of society.”

    “Guided by the Holy Spirit, we come together from different cultures and languages around the world, but united in Christ as one family of families to pray and to listen to each other,” he continued. “We want all the people in the margins of society to know that they are welcome in our communities because they are all children of God created in the same image and likeness of God our Father.”

    Near the end of the Mass, Rojas took a moment to explain the symbolism of the entrance procession.

    “If you noticed, when we entered the Church, the entrance procession, it was a little different than what we have done in the past,” the bishop said. “Normally, the priest or the presider or the bishops come in the very back, at the end of the process. You noticed this time we were in the middle, symbolizing walking together.”

    Moments later, traditional Mexican Indian dancers, called matachines, wearing bells on their clothing and tall, feathered headdresses, filed in front of the altar. After a final blessing, interspersed with loud drum beats, they processed out of the church, dancing.

    One of the two drummers positioned at the foot of the steps leading to the altar appeared to be wearing a jaguar costume, which some viewers associated with the Aztec jaguar-demon Texcatilpoca. The diocese did not respond to a followup email from CNA seeking an explanation.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ca...g-in-san-bernardino-synod-mass-spark-backlash
     
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