The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    I didn't get to Mass this morning for the First Saturday. I went, instead, to a vigil Mass outside my own parish because I happened to be in that area this evening.
    Having sat through what must have been half an hour of rambling drivel posing as a homily, I came away convinced that if going there were my only option for Mass I probably wouldn't bother. Judging by the small number of people at Mass, I reckon that a lot of parishioners have chosen to go to Mass elsewhere or settle for Mass online.

    I don't know what message the priest was trying to convey other than that he's sick of "right wing Catholics", gay marriage is none of our business, two people of the same sex can have a committed loving relationship, his friend Mary "went to Heaven" six month ago, we wouldn't have had so much abuse in the Church if women had been in charge, and there's something wrong with people who don't like animals. According to Fr. Inclusive, the Church doesn't bless civil unions in case it would be confused with Catholic marriage. Someone, presumably one of his parishioners, had phoned him complaining that he hadn't defended Catholic marriage (he didn't give the context). That's the part I could hear. He was seated and when he moved the microphone didn't pick up everything he said (thank God for small mercies).

    Communion on the tongue was absolutely forbidden. There were people wearing high viz jackets dispensing hand sanitiser to everyone lining up for Communion. And the people giving Communion stood in what looked like glass cages with an opening at about waist high through which they dispensed the Blessed Sacrament.

    I hadn't been to Mass in that church since before the lockdown. Never again.

    There are good and holy priests. Fr. Inclusive is probably good and holy too. Trouble is if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything. The only thing I'm sure that Fr. stands for is whatever is his definition of inclusiveness and his dislike of what he called right wing Catholics.
     
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  2. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    This is awful.
     
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  3. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    It was awful. I would have left had it not been too late to find another Mass. Fr. said that there are three conditions for a Catholic marriage: exclusive; permanent; open to life. Note that he left out the requirement that the prospective spouses be one man and one woman. The reason for the omission became clear when he went on to say that a loving relationship between two men can be exclusive and permanent. He did mumble something about open to life but I didn't hear what he said. He quoted a well known, now deceased, politician who had asked him why Catholics will bless animals and objects such as cars but not homosexual couples.

    Everything about the Mass was weird. He told us to sit at the beginning of Mass, and everyone remained seated except for the Consecration, Gospel, the Our Father and the final blessing. I wouldn't qualify as a traditionalist and I'm not particularly right wing except on some social issues, haven't always been particularly reverent at Mass and have been to some Masses that left a lot to be desired in terms of reverence. This was without doubt the most excruciating experience I have ever endured in a church. God bless the brave person who 'phoned him. I wouldn't have bothered because a priest who makes deliberate omissions to misrepresent the Gospel is pushing an agenda and is best avoided. If I were a parent of young children I would do everything I could to get away from that parish.
     
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    I’m sure you were in agony, and will never go back. You have figured it out.
     
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  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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    I probably would have walked out in the middle of the homily.
     
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  6. Adoremus

    Adoremus Powers

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    This sounds horrendous. Was this in Ireland and if so, do you mind saying where, or general area? So I can avoid it!
     
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  7. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

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    Some Sisters of this wonderful order teach my son in his beloved little school. :)
     
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  8. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    I was tempted to leave long before the homily but it can be hard to discern whether spiritual pride is the source of such temptation. By the time the homily was over, I was sorry I hadn't trusted my instincts. Had I left earlier I would have had time to go to a later Mass in another church. The Deacon read the Gospel after kneeling to receive a blessing from the priest. The way they did it had a theatrical flavour to it.

    I did wonder whether it had crossed the priest's mind that there was something not quite right when he announced that Communion on the tongue was not permitted and that anyone presenting themselves for Communion on the tongue would be given a blessing by the Deacon. OK for the Deacon to make a big show of kneeling before the priest but receiving our Lord and Saviour was a matter of military precision with a steward going row by row and motioning the pew sitters to join the line for the hand sanitiser before standing at the perspex box to have Holy Communion handed to us through a hole in the box. All that after hearing a diatribe linking unteachable pharisees with anyone who doesn't regard the "marginalised" (homosexual couples in the context of his homily) as among the "little ones" Jesus spoke about in the Gospel! Bizarre doesn't even begin to describe it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  9. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    Yes, it is a parish in Ireland. I've probably said too much already so I won't say where. If you're in a strange church, have a look around and if you see perspex frames shaped like an old 'phone box, be aware that you might prefer to go to Mass in a different church.

    The Mass I went to yesterday was the polar opposite. Lovely homily likening the covenantal nature of marriage to God's loving covenant with us. Some people received Communion in the hand, others received on the tongue, kneeling or standing as the faithful preferred. No bouncers. No high visibility vests. No gaslighting. Just a reverential atmosphere from start to finish with nobody in any doubt that worship and thanksgiving to our Lord and Saviour was the reason we were gathered there. And, believe it or not, everyone managed to observe safeguarding regulations without being treated like uninvited gate crashing naughty children.
     
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  10. border collie

    border collie Archangels

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    Can you say where this church is, Whatever? Or send me a pm please. I’d love to be able to receive on the tongue.
    I was in the west of Ireland at Sunday mass a few weeks ago and the priest came down to a kneeler to give out communion. Everyone lined up in a queue, standing at the kneeler with their masks on, hands out. When my turn came I knelt, no mask, eyes closed, tongue out. The person behind me got courage and did the same.
     
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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    I know you were so grateful. Isn’t it sad that receiving Our Lord in a reverent manner should be fraught with such fear and require courage? It’s not our fault, but we suffer as a result.
    We are blessed here since our pastor still has a Communion rail. But he is not always distributing there. When enough people go up and kneel there, he is coming around to them. It’s still
    a cause for anxiety which seems to be the norm in many churches these days.
     
  12. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    Can you not go to the TLM in St. Kevin's, Harrington St., Dublin? They increased the number of Masses to cope with the restrictions, with three Latin Masses on Sundays at 9, 10 and 11 a.m. They introduced a system whereby people are asked to attend a given Mass according to the first letter of their surname. This notice, dated June 2021, explains the system: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...017a8d7091d8/1622567426088/2021+June+News.pdf
    Although the notice dates to last June, the schedule is unlikely to have changed unless the 50% limit has been removed. Their calendar for September had a footnote asking people to continue the practice of going to the Mass allocated for their surname.
    I'm sure they don't check surnames at the door, so you're unlikely to be turned away if you can't make it to the appropriate Mass.

    They also have Mass in English: 6 p.m. Saturday Vigil Mass and 12 o'clock on Sunday. Confessions on Sunday from 10.00 to 12.00. https://www.stkevinsdublin.ie/

    It's a lovely old church, around the corner from Synge St. School. There's parking in the church grounds, otherwise there's on-Street parking in the streets around it. Using public transport, the No. 122 bus passes the door, and it's a short walk from the Harcourt Luas stop on the Green line. If you're fit, it's within walking distance of St. Stephen's Green.
     
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    Saints have often remarked on the strong relationship between heresy and sexual impurity and perversion.

    You can smell it off them like rotten fish.

    Tobin and Cupich are cases in point.
     
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  14. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

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    Sadly while on call for work I visited a church, the priest refused me Communion on the tongue. :cry:
     
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  15. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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  16. AED

    AED Powers

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    :(
    He is not supposed to by Canon law as I understand it. But I suppose he doesn't know? Here at our parish you can receive in the tongue but Fr puts down the Paton and walks over to hand sanitizer and cleans his hands before going to the next person. Kind of a spectacle.:unsure:
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

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  18. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

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    I agree. Unfortunately as it wasn't my parish I was was very surprised and saddened.
     
  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    They can do as they please now. They own the joint and boy do they know it.

    He could set up a Gay Bordello in the Parish House and still be named a Cardinal.

    But be a Traditional Carmelite Nun and they're going to come for you in an Apostolic Visitation with Brass knuckle breakers and boy will you ever be sorry...
     
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  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    The Devil rules the Roost and I can hear him crowing about it a couple of thousand miles from Rome.
     
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