The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

  2. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    The above two clips discuss the shortcomings of Fratelli Tutti and the one who wrote his signature at the bottom. The sadness consists in this: a fraternity with its source in Adam (think freemasonry) will ultimately fail because authentic communion can only truly exist in Christ. There was a moment of hope in this encyclical which must be highlighted; critics like Taylor Marshall should have brought it up:

    The unique value of love

    91. People can develop certain habits that might appear as moral values: fortitude, sobriety, hard work and similar virtues. Yet if the acts of the various moral virtues are to be rightly directed, one needs to take into account the extent to which they foster openness and union with others. That is made possible by the charity that God infuses. Without charity, we may perhaps possess only apparent virtues, incapable of sustaining life in common. Thus, Saint Thomas Aquinas could say – quoting Saint Augustine – that the temperance of a greedy person is in no way virtuous.[69] Saint Bonaventure, for his part, explained that the other virtues, without charity, strictly speaking do not fulfil the commandments “the way God wants them to be fulfilled”.[70]

    92. The spiritual stature of a person’s life is measured by love, which in the end remains “the criterion for the definitive decision about a human life’s worth or lack thereof”.[71] Yet some believers think that it consists in the imposition of their own ideologies upon everyone else, or in a violent defence of the truth, or in impressive demonstrations of strength. All of us, as believers, need to recognize that love takes first place: love must never be put at risk, and the greatest danger lies in failing to love (cf. 1 Cor 13:1-13).

    93. Saint Thomas Aquinas sought to describe the love made possible by God’s grace as a movement outwards towards another, whereby we consider “the beloved as somehow united to ourselves”.[72] Our affection for others makes us freely desire to seek their good. All this originates in a sense of esteem, an appreciation of the value of the other. This is ultimately the idea behind the word “charity”: those who are loved are “dear” to me; “they are considered of great value”.[73] And “the love whereby someone becomes pleasing (grata) to another is the reason why the latter bestows something on him freely (gratis)”.[74]

    94. Love, then, is more than just a series of benevolent actions. Those actions have their source in a union increasingly directed towards others, considering them of value, worthy, pleasing and beautiful apart from their physical or moral appearances. Our love for others, for who they are, moves us to seek the best for their lives. Only by cultivating this way of relating to one another will we make possible a social friendship that excludes no one and a fraternity that is open to all.

    Pope Francis, appears to be asking (para 91-93), "How are we able to progress in an authentic communion?" It is ultimately possible only by the charity that God infuses. And Francis, referring to St. Bonaventure, states: ...without charity, strictly speaking [we] do not fulfil the commandments “the way God wants them to be fulfilled.”

    It is as if the veil (see 2 Cor3) for 3 paragraphs is briefly lifted, to then only be pulled down again! :cry::cry::cry:

    14 But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

    So, the Pope teaches that without charity (which we know is conferred through Baptism), true communion can never be achieved! Sadly, he begins his return to an endorsement of a humanistic fraternity in paragraph 94, abandoning the hope of the Gospel! Is the Gospel the imposition of our own ideologies? No, it is the source of the very communion the Pope so obviously desires?

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  4. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    He wouldn't even have been the first pope to do so.
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    ...and the Jesuits are the only order to take a personal Vow of Loyalty to the Pope. This was the original intention to be totally , totally the Pope's Army.

    What went wrong? Who knows really. My own suspicion is that they fell the same way Lucifer did through pride. In their own case intellectual pride. Also their Evangelisation was to do with mixing with the world, especially the world's elites . Well... maybe they wound up mixing a little too well.
    DeGaulle, HeavenlyHosts and AED like this.
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Bishop Schneider describes this as the Death of the Supernatural.
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    It’s what you have said, Padraig, it’s a loss of mysticism.
    AED and padraig like this.
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Our Lady said to me, 'Prayer is the Bread of Faith, pray , pray the Rosary'

    These people are simply not praying and feeding their Faith. Thus their Faith dies.
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  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    It is, of course, the perception of the 'Death of the Supernatural', as the existence or non-existence of the Supernatural has absolutely nothing to do with any man's opinion. There are many who are going to be stunned with the surprise that they got it wrong. It's unlikely to be a pleasant surprise.

    Nowadays, there are many people who adamantly assert that mankind is a phenomenon of total insignificance on an utterly important planet surrounding a minor star in an isolated part of its galaxy among countless such galaxies, while asserting that they themselves, each only one among many billions of such paltry human beings, are the all-knowing arbiters of Reality, arrogantly dismissing the Revelation that was kindly given to us to inform us of the way things are. That's a difficult contradiction to reconcile.

    We, who know we know damn all apart from that to which we were privileged to have revealed to us, must continue to counter them with the truth that, despite man's apparent insignificance, the universe has been actually created for our benefit and we are its purpose.
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  10. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Bishop Schnieder says a good definition of insanity is to deny reality.

    Since the ultimate reality is that God exists then most people are insane, by definition.

    This is so true. We believers are like visitors to the insane asylum.

    One of the scariest things about meeting truly evil people is that they are also insane.

    Evil and insane go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other.

    Hell is an asylum for the criminally insane.

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  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    And still...there is a minority of truly great men among them. To mention a few; Father Malachi Martin, the afore-mentioned Father Hardon, the recently deceased Father James Schall and the still with us Father Robert Spitzer, a scientist utterly uncontaminated by Teilhardianism and a stout apologist for the Faith. These men shine all the more brightly amidst the filth.
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  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    And the Holy One, Second Person of the Trinity, suffered incomprehensible pain and death to make sure that Plan not be usurped by any creature! Glory to God!
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  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    G.K. Chesterton defined the insane, not as those who have lost their reason, but as those who have lost everything else. As usual, he hit the nail on the head. The leaders of atheistic, progressive thought are very intelligent and broadly, if corruptedly, educated. As a result, they impress and mislead many. However, they have their premises wrong. They reject the existence of a God Who has the temerity not to show Himself to them and instead appoint themselves in His place as the arbiters and definers of truth. From this completely errant position, Reality being foregone from the beginning, they reason themselves inexorably into insanity.

    The difficulty for the rest of us is that we find ourselves in a powerless minority and face a future of soft totalitarianism, a phenomenon which is actually more difficult to resist than the 'hard' kind. It is easier to become a dead martyr than to be isolated as a living pariah.
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  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

    That is at once the very saddest and the most inspiring thing of all. I would still dump the lot while providing an exit strategy for the good ones to reform the order in a few years time. But the order does need supprresed. it really, really does.
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Would I be correct in saying that the purpose of the Universe is as a medium for the salvation of Fallen man, a universe intended for the Incarnation of He Who created it in order to fulfill that purpose?
  16. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The Order needs to go...for good. The good ones will be alright. I feel very sorry for St Ignatius Loyola and the many great Jesuit saints. Even in the presence of the Beatific Vision, this must be a bitter pill.
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  17. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I don't know if I want to tackle that one (post 16736), DeGaulle. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? :)

    As the Easter Exultet proclaims: O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, who gained for us so great a Redeemer. (6:59f)

    This Filipino rendition has such a marvelous participatory quality! Alleluia!
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  18. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes they do. True sons of St Ignatius.
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  19. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I feel sorry for the good Jesuits. They seem to be thin on the ground.

    I sometimes join the 9.15 p.m. online Rosary and Examen from Letterkenny Cathedral. Bishop McGuckian is a Jesuit and he seems to be ok. It's to his credit that he did more than the bare minimum while we are shut out of Mass. He always says the last decade of the Rosary in Irish. Tonight he sang the hymn to Our Lady of Knock as well as Soul of My Savour (I can't remember the official name of that hymn). His Northern accent sounds strange to my ears, especially his pronunciation of "mna". Is Letterkenny in Raphoe diocese?
    Sam, AED and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Love this, Dolours. What graces.
    Anima Christi is the Latin name.
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