Please be careful, this sort of uncertainty is a mighty slippery slope that none of us has any way of knowing. Outside of knowing our priests and their fruits that is. It is also a major claim of the Sede's.
It’s a known fact today many of our priests and bishops are not believers. They have used the Church for their own perversions. We now have proof. And still they are getting away with it.
In all things, Christ has got our back. We have enough knowable problems, there is no point in getting hung up on ones that can only be knowable to God.
It is a hard knowledge difficult to digest. So.... We must keep our eyes on Christ. (I actually "heard" this in prayer some years ago in front of the Blessed Sacrament. "Keep your eyes on Me. Do not look to the left do not look to the right. Keep your eyes on Me.")
Thank you Don I need to know that there are some Catholics out there that understand the truth. The proposition....... that the sacrament of holy orders is not an actual sacrament of the Holy Spirit conferred by Bishops of Christ's Holy Catholic Church upon our priests, but is in reality a sacrament totally dependent on the interior disposition of any given ordained priest makes our Catholic faith a joke! It makes Our Holy Catholic faith a laughable grotesque caricature of mankind's insanity to believe in a God at all! We Catholics look like poor duped victims of the "opioid of the masses" as Karl Marx puts it. The proposition also vindicates the fraternal brotherhood of the Freemasons! So how dumb have we Catholics been! As Garabandal points out.......... all it would take is one break in the chain hundreds of years ago for thousands of invalid ordinations because if a particular bishop had no faith and some of the priests he ordained became bishops -- they were not validly ordained priests and therefore not valid bishops whose ordination of other priests would be invalid and the vicious chain would continue. In the above proposition we can certainly put aside the old catholic adage " once a priest always a priest " because who really knows if the priest was actually a priest to begin with! It seems the average hapless Catholic down through the ages may have been adoring a piece of bread! for many centuries! and heck we may not even be baptised!, let alone confirmed!, nor validly married!, and how do you feel about confessing your sins to a man who will probably laugh about it with his friends, the other fraud priests! It all makes sedevacantism look very attractive! At least we wouldn't be duped by satans wiles any longer and escape the captivity of satan's hold of us the luckless catholics! However I don't believe the above proposition of Praetorian! nor of any individuals who propagate the above heresies! even if there are theologians who inseminate these theories. Our Lord Jesus is not cruel, He is with His Church.
He is with His Church, always and forever even unto the end of time. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Thank you Don and Josephite.
It is not that our Lord is cruel. He never is, because He loves each one of us so very much. But it is Man's free will that causes him to turn away from the Lord. Our Lord never prevents us from exercising our free will. We all know that. That the communists/ freemasons infiltrated the Church cannot be denied. These men became priests, bishops and cardinals. They themselves were probably validly ordained, but if they never had the Faith in the first place, can we believe that the Sacraments they confected were valid? Unfortunately for us, even though Our Lady has warned us through her apparitions, the Church hierarchy didn't take heed. We have been assured that a simple consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope together with all the bishops in the world would give us an era of peace. But it has not been done even up to now, 91 years after the request was made. Our Lord promised that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church; but that surely means Hell will try its best. Abp Fulton Sheen prophesied a false Church alongside the true Church. Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw the same. Cardinal Ratzinger said that the Church will become very small. We are living in the prophesied times. God has not abandoned us. It is Man who has abandoned God. Our Lady is our only hope and help. +
It brings up the question of how we might distinguish the valid priests and bishops from the invalid ones. Perhaps we could dunk them in water and if they don't drown, like the witches of old, we'll know these are the bad 'uns! You know, in some cases this idea is tempting...
To be denied a valid sacrament, purportedly on account of a wicked priest, would not represent an act of Free Will. I don't think Christ is going to line us up with the goats because of 'hard luck'.
I was referring to the communists and freemasons who had turned away from God, and the Church hierarchy who were disobedient. I agree with you that we would not be lined up with the goats on the left on account of invalid sacraments which we had believed to be valid. +
Josephite, I wonder if you have been watching too many you tubes, or reading too many peoples opinions and arguments. It could be getting to you, under your skin. This is no time to allow even the tiniest smattering of doubt in the Faith we have inherited from our fathers. When we receive the Sacraments of Holy Mother Church, we trust in Jesus to take care of our souls. Let no man, woman or child deceive you. Jesus will be true to His Word and reward your efforts, no matter what happens. I read some years ago, Jesus said we need not worry about the Priest or Bishop who administers the Sacraments. Jesus will honour His promise, and He will deal with those who have administered the Sacraments on His behalf when they meet Him at their judgement. We have no need to worry.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. The communists, freemasons and their hierarchial facilitators are going to feel the heat, in more ways than one if they don't wise up. Open hostility is at least honest, these kinds of subversive deceptions are consummated in the deepest layer of Hell. To attempt to sabotage the most profound experiences of the lives of the faithful, in their innocent trust, will not be allowed to work-I can't conceive of God tolerating this. Sins will be forgiven, souls will be baptised, the Eucharist will be consecrated, despite all their efforts. They will not prevail. This would be impossible. These fiends have free will to do whatever they wish, but none to harm the immortal fate of the rest of us. Their power is ultimately confined no further than their own selves-perhaps this is the meaning of complete abandonment to the self.
Excuse me Josephite, but this is not heresy and it is not my "proposition". It is what the Church teaches. I am quite offended by the statement that I am a heretic or propagating it. Just look up sacramental intention. To go hurling language like that at me just because you don't like a Church teaching is rude at best and calumny at worst. I work very hard to share here only orthodox Catholicism.
As I cited above this is not my idea. This is what the Church teaches, it is just that many are unaware of it. What I believe and the sede's don't is that God guides his Church to preserve the priesthood.
I am highly surprised you would say this. What I posted was orthodox and I supported it with orthodox links. Your "Post of the year" was the most personally offensive one against me I have ever read on here.
