The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    earthtoangels likes this.
  2. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

    Seems Salvini has pegged the rise of antisemitism correctly for Europe. PF has got it wrong again. Although, I do not disagree with the growing attachment in the West to being comfortable as a reason for selfishness, it seems more logical that the influx of Muslims into Christian Europe has also influenced the increase of hatred, violence, antisemitism and I dare say, anti-Christian persecution also in Europe and the world.
     
    DeGaulle likes this.
  3. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    earthtoangels likes this.
  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Populism = a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

    So much for the Pope's concern for the marginalised -- he is so out of touch it's unreal. Most ordinary people are struggling and disregarded by the elites - the true marginalised.
     
    Tanker, DeGaulle and earthtoangels like this.
  5. Katfalls

    Katfalls Powers

    On Spirit Daily today an article about Legion of Christ and the sex abuse scandals. https://spiritdaily.org/blog/news/10-years-after-vatican-takeover-legion-in-new-abuse-crisis
    I don't know how anyone could remain a member of this community, it is so evil. I am so appalled at what has been going on behind the scenes, how can any of these Bishops hold
    their heads up? It makes me sick. Everyday there is a new scandal. This truly is the gates of hell at the door. It's the persecution of the good and holy Catholics of the church. No wonder the numbers are decreasing in droves. I need to go to a quiet corner, I am too upset.
     
    Tanker, Mary's child, AED and 2 others like this.
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    How are you feeling these days, Katfalls?
     
    SgCatholic, AED and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  7. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Even the very dogs in the street know that the anti-semitism is coming from the Mohammedans. I doubt they'd even deny it.
     
    AED and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  8. AED

    AED Powers

    I know. It is crushing us. Story by story and scandal by scandal.this is the chastisement. We right in the middle of it it seems.
     
    Mary's child and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  9. Katfalls

    Katfalls Powers

    Still having headaches and some trouble with my ears. I had an MRI on my back last week and am seeing the neurologist on Thursday. I have good days and bad days . . .
     
  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Prayers going up. Please keep us posted. hoping for the best outcomes
     
    Byron, Suzanne, DeGaulle and 3 others like this.
  11. AED

    AED Powers

    Prayers. I'm going to the Monastery tomorrow. I will write you into their intercession book.
     
    Byron, DeGaulle and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  12. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Praying for your healing, Katfalls.
     
    Byron, AED, DeGaulle and 1 other person like this.
  13. Tanker

    Tanker Powers

    You are in my intentions book for my daily rosaries.
     
    Byron, AED and Katfalls like this.
  14. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    This is very sad news.
    upload_2020-1-22_9-53-52.png

    Prayers going up for the total healing of Father Stephen. +
     
    Suzanne, SgCatholic, Tanker and 3 others like this.
  15. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    May God bless Cardinal Gerhard Müller. +

    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Gerhard Müller holds up a Rosary during a homily in his titular church of Sant'Agnese in Agone, Rome, Jan. 21, 2020. (Edward Pentin photo)

    Jan. 21, 2020
    Cardinal Müller: Europe Must Imitate Courageous Witness of St. Agnes
    The German cardinal backs an Italian politician’s controversial displays of his Catholic faith and says Pope Francis’ meetings with atheist Eugenio Scalfari are a “vain effort.”
    Edward Pentin | https://www.ncregister.com/blog/edw...-must-imitate-courageous-witness-of-st.-agnes

    To combat neo-paganism in Europe and guarantee the continent’s future, Catholics must follow the example of St. Agnes of Rome and courageously witness to the faith, Cardinal Gerhard Müller has said.

    Referring to recent controversies, the prefect emeritus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith also said a politician who “symbolically holds up the Rosary is more to be trusted than one who literally takes down the Cross of Christ.”

    Cardinal Müller made the comments during a homily in his titular church of Sant’Agnese in Agone in Rome this evening on the feast day of the third-century saint.

    He recalled how Catholics admire the “heroic courage” of St. Agnes, who suffered martyrdom at the age of 12 during the reign of Roman Emperor Diocletian, and the fact that in childhood she was able to “distinguish between the unique and true God and the many false gods of the pagans.”

    Recalling how other early Christians also sacrificed their lives to bring the faith to ancient pagan Rome, the German cardinal noted how many people today have “forgotten — or consciously cut off — their Christian roots,” and create a “neo-pagan replacement religion” in the form of the “cosmos, our planet, evolution, the internet and technology.”

    They act as if such “passing realities” somehow give man the “final foundation and stronghold,” and congratulate themselves for the “purported scientific insight” that man is “merely an animal and that after death everything ends.”

    But St. Agnes, he said, “encourages us” to witness to the faith “without fear of men.”

    “Only in Christianity does the future of Italy lie” and “neo-paganism is her sure doom,” he continued, adding “it is a vain effort to have dialogues with the old [Eugenio] Scalfari when the atheist concluded from them, and in a confused manner, that the Pope had denied the divinity of Christ.”

    The cardinal was referring to Pope Francis’ frequent interviews with the 95-year-old communist atheist founder of the Italian daily La Repubblica newspaper.

    In one of the most recently reported encounters, Scalfari alleged the Pope does not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ but in the ‘semblance of a spirit.’ The Vatican said Scalfari’s report of the interview, which like others was not recorded, are not a “faithful account” of what was said but rather a “personal and free interpretation.”

    Cardinal Müller said such interviews are a “vain effort” because only by “witnessing, with Saint Peter, by day and night: ‘Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God’” does a pope speak as “pope of the entire Catholic Church.”

    He went on to urge Catholics to “work together” with those who are “intellectually and morally capable” to bear responsibility for the “economic, political, cultural and religious future of Europe” and added that only the “Christian image of man” will bring a “revival of the Eternal City and all of Italy.”

    Cardinal Müller then held up a Rosary and said that a politician who “symbolically holds up the Rosary is more to be trusted than one who literally takes down the Cross of Christ.” His words referred to a controversy last year when Italy’s former deputy prime minister, Matteo Salvini, often displayed a rosary during public speeches to show his Catholic identity, and proposed making it obligatory for crucifixes to be displayed in public spaces.

    Salvini was strongly criticized by papal aide Jesuit Father Antonio Spadaro, who tweeted that the “cross is a sign of protest against sin, violence, injustice and death” and “never a sign of identity.” Father Spadaro also denounced the use of the Rosary in what he saw as political campaigning.

    Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the German bishops’ conference, also opposed similar proposals to make it mandatory for crucifixes to be displayed in the entrance of all Bavarian public buildings in May 2018, earning Cardinal Marx opprobrium from some Church leaders.

    Cardinal Müller has expressed sympathy for Salvini in the past, saying last year it is better to talk with him and noting it was “curious that the Pope has received the most secularist people, and not Salvini.” One must “speak with everyone in a spirit of fraternity,” he said.

    In his homily, Cardinal Müller noted that neo-paganism “denies that each man is created in the likeness of God and therefore neo-paganism is hostile toward life.”

    He added that the political ideologies of right and left “are not what counts” to a Christian who is not seduced by “neo-pagan natural religions,” or atheistic “neo-liberal and neo-Marxist” ideologies.

    “A mature Catholic is not in need of instructions as to which democratic politician he may elect or not,” he explained. “He who believes in God, knows only one Commandment: the love of God and of neighbor.”

    The cardinal closed by stressing that Italy and Europe have a future only through a “renewal” of faith in Jesus Christ and “in the Sign of His Cross.”

    He called on St. Agnes to pray to the Lord “for your Romans, for Catholic Italy, and for a Christian Europe. Amen.”

    ***

    Edited to add:

    Edward Pentin also wrote about the recent silent prayer protest in Munich.

    Jan. 18, 2020
    Munich Protest Requests ‘Clarity and Coherence’ From Pope Francis, German Bishops
    An international group of lay faithful gathered in silent prayer to call for an end to ‘dissimulation and deception’ as controversial ‘synodal path’ gets underway in Germany.
    Edward Pentin | https://www.ncregister.com/blog/edw...y-and-coherence-from-pope-francis-german-bish
    ​
    ***

    And this following article originally from CNA is about Cardinal Sarah and Pope Emeritus Benedict's very recent meeting.

    Jan. 17, 2020
    Cardinal Sarah Meets with Pope Benedict: No Misunderstanding
    Cardinal Sarah, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, issued a series of statements via Twitter on Friday, saying that his meeting with the former pope went well.
    Catholic News Agency | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-sarah-meets-with-pope-benedict-no-misunderstanding​
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    Suzanne, SgCatholic, Sam and 4 others like this.
  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    [​IMG]
    ABOVE: François Boucher, “Saint Peter Attempting to Walk on Water,” 1766. INSET BELOW: YouTube screen capture of Carlos Eire.
    Blogs | Jan. 22, 2020
    Church Historian Discusses the Papacy, Past and Present
    “We don’t know what’s going to happen,” says historian Carlos Eire, “but there’s a promise that the Church is not going to disappear and that there’s someone else in charge who is human and divine.”
    Edward Pentin | https://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/church-historian-discusses-the-papacy-past-and-present

    As a Catholic expert on the Protestant Reformation, professor Carlos Eire is well acquainted with the crises the Catholic Church has periodically faced throughout her history.

    A Cuban exile who was airlifted out of the island nation in 1962 to escape Fidel Castro’s regime, Eire received his Ph.D. from Yale in 1979, joined the university’s history faculty in 1996, and has gone on to write several highly acclaimed books not only on the Reformation but also a biography of St. Teresa of Ávila, and an award-winning memoir of his experiences in Cuba and following his exile.

    In this recent interview with the Register, Eire discusses the current crisis facing the Church and the papacy, how these events figure in the light of history and how, despite the challenges and suffering it perennially faces, the Church has survived — even during a time when there were three men who claimed to be pope.
    [​IMG]

    Given your knowledge of history and expertise, how would you say this papacy compares with previous ones?

    Pope Francis is much less guarded or careful than popes not just in recent history but in the previous 19th, 18th and 17th centuries, all of whom were very careful. He’s constantly surprising me as he surprises everyone else. But what I find very odd about him is that he’s a Jesuit and yet the Jesuit tradition has for so long emphasized being careful. So, he just blurts things out…

    Having studied the history of popes, do you think the grace of the office will overcome any challenges and controversies?

    Oh, definitely. This is nothing compared to previous crises or previous popes. This is child's play.

    But critics say Pope Francis has impinged on doctrine, such as Amoris Laetitia.

    Yes, but whenever there’s been any kind of doctrinal conflict or there has been any kind of logjam, it has come, it has gone, sometimes there’s a fallout, but it’s resolved. As with the Old Catholic church after Vatican I, there’s always some fallout, but the Church has survived the crisis. In my Catholic intellectual tradition course, which I co-teach with two colleagues, we’ve tried to get the students to realize that crisis is constant. The details of the crises might be different, and the intensity of the crises might vary, but for heaven’s sake, 70 years in Avignon — and then all the following years of the Great Schism of 1378 where you had not two, but at one point three rival popes — and the Church survived. Conciliarists deposed two popes and elected a new pope, but that only resulted in three popes.

    If you were to cross the English Channel during that schism, if you crossed from England to France, you were immediately excommunicated. If you crossed from France to England, it would go the other way, because England recognized the pope in Rome, and France, of course, recognized the pope in Avignon and so there was a mutual excommunication.

    It would be even more shocking because there at least you have to get into a ship and cross the water, but on the continent, you just go a few kilometers this way and there was another pope being recognized, and vice versa. So, we shouldn't really get too concerned, because it will resolve itself.

    Does this affect your faith?

    This is where the historian and the believer can take two very different approaches. I’m both, so the historian on this side of my brain says this looks problematic — like watching two vehicles or two trains about to crash and you don’t know exactly what’s going to happen. But the believer on this side of my head says it may take a while for the dust to settle. We don’t know what’s going to happen, but there’s a promise that the Church is not going to disappear and that there’s someone else in charge who is human and divine.

    So there’s protection, but that doesn’t preclude human action, does it?

    Oh, no — God has worked through us to protect. Many of these conciliarists during the schism were trying to resolve the multi-pope situation. They meant well and actually many of them, without their work, the problem would not have been resolved. It’s not like Jesus appeared magically at one point and said, “Okay, this is the pope.”

    People will always be working hard and often meeting a tremendous resistance. This to me, as a historian and a believer, is always a constant reminder that whatever happens on earth, human beings are making decisions, making choices, sometimes very difficult choices, and God works through people.

    And works it to the good eventually?

    Eventually — and that’s always the catch for us, because our lifespans are short. So, it’s quite possible that when things go wrong, an individual might never see it resolved in their lifetime and during their lifetime, they will have to put up with quite a bit. The theologian St. Vincent Ferrer actually supported the Avignon pope for a number of years and then finally saw the light and had to back away. But in the meantime, he made life miserable for people who accepted the Roman pope up until the point where he changed sides, but that’s just the way things work out.

    What is your opinion on cases where a pope has been accused of unorthodoxy or perhaps even heresy?

    It is very rare. But again, there is no really big trouble unless Vatican I is invoked, unless infallibility is invoked. That’s where things would get hairy. Being a heretic and not speaking ex cathedra — while it’s a problem, it’s not the worst kind of problem. And actually, most Catholics don’t know about the famous case that was invoked during the First Vatican Council, which was the case of Pope Honorius I, who in conversations with the patriarch of Constantinople expressed agreement with the heretical proposition about Christ — Monotheletism — the idea that the Christ had only one will, the divine will. Pope Honorius said, “Sounds right to me.” So, during Vatican I this was brought up as an example of popes not being infallible. But this is where the ex-cathedra cloud comes in: Honorius was not speaking ex cathedra. That was a private conversation.

    That was very rare.

    It’s very rare, but they did dig up his remains and throw them into the Tiber so it’s that rare. It’s been that rare. But for heaven’s sake, all the disagreements about the Immaculate Conception before it was pronounced a dogma — people fell on both sides, including the popes. But this pope is probably skating on the thinnest ice that anyone — not just living, but dead or watching — is. And they probably are [watching]. It must be that surprising.

    Do you think, with the hindsight of history, looking back maybe in 30 years, we’ll look back and see why this happened and that it was perhaps actually necessary?

    There’s always a degree of good that comes out of any crisis and whether it’s intentional on the part of the person responsible for the crisis or not is immaterial in the long run.

    When it has to do with the popes and the Church, then usually things work out?

    Usually they do. One would have to say — given the fact that this is 2019 — not usually, but always. I tell my classes and then their eyes open really wide: “You know, the Catholic Church is the longest-lasting continuous institution in human history.” Not even the pharaohs had this kind of institutional continuity, which is what I’ve always found remarkable. And it’s not just an institution, it’s an absolute monarchy. Granted, the “monarchy” is elected, but the monarch is absolute, has absolute power.

    Could one argue that even if a pope changed the whole essence of the papacy, because the office is steered by Christ and the Holy Spirit, that in the long run it really wouldn’t matter? The pope could change it radically and it would still survive.

    Oh yes, definitely. We have many examples, not just the popes, but councils that voted the wrong way and then it took some years, but things were corrected. It happens. But what’s always surprised me, both as a historian and a believer, is sort of the… let’s call it “the bounce-back principle,” an effect which you don’t normally see with human institutions. And that’s what I think is one of the more remarkable facets of the history of the Catholic Church.

    Despite the best efforts of some members to undermine her, she keeps going.

    She keeps going and sometimes there’s so much nastiness and so much suffering involved in these critical moments, in these crises. It’s almost like — I guess an apt comparison might be an illness from which one is eventually healed. It’s never pleasant to go through but the healing is always a wonderful stretch of time, because the healing, even if it’s slow, is always welcome.
     
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  17. Our new Archbishop for Philadelphia to replace Chaput. Anyone know anything about him? Hate to lose Ab Chaput.

    Cleveland Bishop To Lead Philadelphia Archdiocese

    January 23, 2020 by sd

    From Catholic News Agency:[​IMG]

    Bishop Nelson Perez of Cleveland was appointed Archbishop of Philadelphia Thursday, returning to the local Church of his priestly ordination.

    He succeeds Archbishop Charles Chaput, 75, who had led the Philadelphia archdiocese since 2011. Ordained a priest of the Capuchin Franciscans in 1970, Archbishop Chaput served as Bishop of Rapid City and Archbishop of Denver before his transfer to Philadelphia. Bishop Perez, 58, was born in Miami to Cuban parents, and grew up in New Jersey. He is the first Hispanic bishop to lead the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.
     
  18. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Doesn’t sound too good, eta.

    “Known for his advocacy for migrants, Perez has recently spoken out on behalf of the unborn. In April 2019, he praised the Ohio legislature and governor for passing a pro-life law that outlaws abortion when a heartbeat is detected. Perez said the bill “represents a major step forward in efforts to protect the sanctity of life.” He also asked laity to pray for the end of the “Culture of Death.”

    Perez has, however, caused comment by his liturgical preferences. Last March he asked Catholics in Cleveland to stand after receiving communion instead of kneeling in prayer until the “distribution” has been completed. This was in accord with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), which allows bishops some license with the norms. The GIRM stipulates that “The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise” (n. 43).”
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...ender-of-faith-philadelphia-archbishop-chaput

    Also here:
    I only know one thing about new Philly Archbishop Nelson Jesus Perez
    Posted on JANUARY 23, 2020

    He banned kneeling at Mass in the Diocese of Cleveland last year. HERE


    https://nonvenipacem.com/2020/01/23...out-new-philly-archbishop-nelson-jesus-perez/

    +
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2020
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