https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...anking-arm-greets-child-St-Peters-Square.html What was this pilgrim woman saying to Pope Francis? His response to her was disturbing.
You're very gracious Mario. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain your take on what Fr. Rohr was saying. Unfortunately, I'm seeing the essence of your response as "take what's good from Fr. Rohr and leave the rest". That's the criterion for false religions. Fr. Rohr is a Catholic priest "in good standing" whatever good standing may mean these days. There's a discussion on another thread abou the hermits who have excommunicated themselves/been formally excommunicated. The consensus on that thread is that separation from the Pope is separation from the Church and separation from the Church results in eternal damnation. Unless there is a whole new dialect in the English language which sounds exactly like the English I grew up with, Fr. Rohr would dismiss the arguments on that thread as narcissistic tribalism. When I posted Fr. Rohr's videos I wondered whether there is anything to be gained from knowing about all the scandals in the Church. One of the reasons I wonder about it is that I'm getting the impression that we are being manipulated into camps. Smooth operators like Fr. Rohr do it while claiming to be proposing the opposite. His angle seems to be that unless you break God's law you can't appreciate what God's law is all about, therefore, striving to keep the law and warning others of the dangers of breaking it puts you in the rigid camp. Fr. James Martin does it, not so subtly, on the issue of the sin of sodomy. Others use the tactic on a range of issues adultery, fornication, aritificial birth control, abortion, and now even idolatry. The only sin is doing what Jesus told us when he said "If you love me, keep my commandments". Of course, if we separate the God of the Old Testament from Jesus, there are no commandments other than to love God and love our neighbour. All that's required, then, to deal the fatal blow to the Deposit of Faith is to redefine love. And that's what they are doing - "they" being Pope Francis and the self-proclaimed "Pope Francis Catholics". They want us to dig in our heels, making it easier to label us as haters, marginalise us and, if push comes to shove, excommunicate us. I don't know whether you have read Fr. Rohr's books. I haven't. Does he accept that Jesus came to redeem us because of the fall of our first parents? Does he believe that Adam and Eve were real people? He talks in one of his videos about us, presumably he means the Catholic Church prior to Pope Francis, having been too fond of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He gives the distinct impression that he believe that, no matter what we do in this life, God will intervene at the last minute to save us and that it will be nigh impossible for anyone to resist God's infinite love when we are given that last-minute chance. Perhaps he received some private revelation during his meditations. If so, it would be interesting to know how he reconciles it with public revelation. Happy New Year.
Thank you, Josephite, for your concern. I won't let the likes of Fr. Rohr grind me down. I didn't seek out his videos. I can't remember how I came across them. I think the first one played automatically after I had finished listening to another Catholic video. I won't be watching any more of them. We need to be careful how we react to the likes of Fr. Rohr. Knowing that they won't be able to talk everyone into pantheism, their best option is to elicit over'reactions so they can stereotype and pigeon hole those who don't buy the snake oil.
Was she Chinese? Maybe hoping to draw his attention to the faithful Catholics there. Just a guess on my part.
I didn't think Pope Francis' reaction was out of order. Although she seemed very distraught, and this must be allowed for, I didn't think the lady's action was appropriate, no matter her motives. She seemed, from the piece of video I saw, to rather roughly grab the arm of the pope who seemed to be unsighted. In today's world, and given his position, this could be rather a frightening experience for a pope. Given his age, it might very well have been quite a painful one. The lady did seem reluctant to let go and I didn't perceive the Pope's rather gentle-seeming slapping actions to remove his hand as being excessive. The man has a reputation as being a bit of a grouch-this character trait is just that and not a ground to condemn him. We have more than enough for which to criticise him without jumping on everything he does. There might be an up side, in that it might put off some of his easily offended liberal admirers.
Yes I really think she hurt Pope Francis, you can see him grimace. Grabbing him like that was very disrespectful. Not to mention his security detail was slow to react, so he took matters into his own hands.
I wonder what she was saying. The video is posted on youtube. I'm surprised that nobody in the comments section there has posted what she said. One person said she had a Mandarin accent but another thought she had a Filipino accent. Pulling an elderly person like that could easily knock them off balance which probably explains his reaction. Whatever language she spoke didn't sound Italian or Spanish, so it's likely he didn't know what she was saying.
I’m still rather shocked with his reaction. He slapped a woman’s hand. I understand it was quite a jolt for him, but they train him for this type of reaction from the public. What was also strange was her face afterwards. Oblivious to what she had caused.
Is it not illustrative of the 'snowflakiness' of modernity that such a mild reaction, gestures moreso than blows in my opinion, can cause shock? Suddenly, she's the 'victim'. For all PF knew, she might have been retaining a grip on him in order to bring out a knife in the other hand or to facilitate another to do so. Remember, he was in the immediate situation without benefit of our hindsight. He is more probably trained to be very wary of these kinds of incident. Would you feel the same had it been a pope with whom you had more sympathy?
He didn't like having his hand grabbed either when the faithful wanted to kiss the Papal ring. To bear wrongs patiently I think is something we all need to keep in mind. I saw that woman make the sign of the cross before she grabbed him and I think she overreacted in her excitement Prayers for Pope Francis and that woman at Mass this morning!
Sunburst, you are bearing wrongs far more patiently than I am. Lol She jerked him toward her, he almost fell, she had him in a vise grip. I am in my 70s and I totally get it. My balance is shot. I saw her sign of the cross, too. So you are right to be praying for them at Mass. God bless you for it.
I totally get it too. I watched the video and he seems to be going ow as she grabs him and turns him back towards her and then he's saying hey, aye hey. I have had people grip my hand in a hand shake that has had me in tears, when I'm telling the person to please let go of my hand that hurts. That type of person always remains oblivious, strangely enough, it has always been a woman. The poor woman was probably desperate to get her point across, but of course was wrong to do it and she will be in my prayers too.
Recently, someone I know almost lost her job at age 59 because a child hurt her in a preschool setting and she reacted without thinking. She is a preschool teacher, the child ran into her ankle on a trike and she angrily lashed out in her pain. The parent happened to see the interaction and immediately reported her. She then had to fight like hell to keep her job. She had to get a trained advocate to help her to plead her case with her employer. She had people praying hard for her and in the end she has managed to remain employed. So I am looking at this incident in the light of all that. We do react to pain on an animal level. In her case, if she had lost her job, shd would have been impoverished. I was close to the situation and my feelings about it changed over time. I could see thag old age was taking its toll on her and that she was barely coping with the nature of her job, which involves taking care of toddlers from 8 am til 6 pm, 5 days a week. I am not at all surprised by the reaction.The fact is that everyone in St Peters wants to touch the Pope. I can understand it as I have spent time at the Cova in Fatima, and there, immense crowds are clamouring in a similar way for some contact with the statue of Our Lady. I personally do not have any desire to go anywhere near Rome, as the way I am personally coping is that I am holding on to the belief that " Habemus Papam" - and his name is Benedict.
Just saw the video of the pope slapping the woman’s hand. If someone of his stature is tired of shaking hands, he should clasp his hands behind his back and smile and endure until he is out of the limelight. What he did was inappropriate. I am a lowly flight attendant, and if I went off on all the passengers that literally grab me for attention from the back when I an in the aisle I’m sure I’d be fired by now. Also, I saw him presiding over vespers yesterday afternoon on EWTN and he looked miserable. I don’t recall seeing the other popes looking like they wish they were anywhere but in the Vatican.
Good to hear, it was an unfortunate situation. Huge crowds like that are scary, and people do crazy things. It must have been another PR nightmare for the Vatican, I know the press was very critical of Pope Francis. I would not want to go down in history as the woman who was slapped by the Pope. That poor woman will never live that moment down.
