Would love to know who their "expert" consultants were on this finding!! Seems to tell you more about the character of these "bishops" than anything else. German Bishops Pronounce Homosexuality ‘Normal’ and ‘Unchangeable’ The German Catholic bishops’ conference has issued a statement declaring homosexuality to be just as “normal” as heterosexuality while adding that adultery can no longer be considered a “serious sin.” Both the homosexual and heterosexual orientation “belong to the normal forms of a sexual predisposition that cannot and should not be changed by any specific socialization,” the Dec. 5 communiqué stated. The bishops embraced the findings of a study group on sexual morality chaired by Berlin Archbishop Heiner Koch, which will form a starting point for the “Synodal Way of the Church” in Germany to rethink Catholic teachings and praxis for the present day. “There was agreement that the sexual preference of humans is expressed during puberty and assumes a heterosexual or homosexual orientation,” the statement reads. Since one’s sexual orientation is unchangeable, “in church thinking, this means that any form of discrimination against homosexuals must be rejected, as has long been required by the magisterium and is also explicitly emphasized by Pope Francis in the post-synodal letter Amoris Laetitia,” the bishops note. There was, however, no consensus on “whether the magisterial ban on homosexual practice is still opportune,” the bishops declare. The communiqué also called for an update regarding Church teaching on adultery, declaring that “a sexual relationship after divorce and remarriage is no longer qualified as a serious sin and thus no general exclusion from the reception of the Eucharist is foreseen,” stating that such a conclusion is “supported by humanities and theology” as well as by “developments that are already apparent in Amoris laetitia.” The findings of the meeting, sponsored by the Bishops’ Commission for Marriage and Family to deal with issues of sexual morality, will be used to update the Church’s teaching staff on sexual morality, the communique revealed. Along with Archbishop Heiner Koch, several other bishops participated in the consultation, including Osnabrück Bishop Franz-Josef Bode, Bishop Wolfgang Ipolt of Görlitz, Bishop Peter Kohlgraf of Mainz, and several suffragan bishops from the Faith and Family Commissions, who discussed issues of sexual morality with sexologists, moral theologians, dogmatists, and canon lawyers. “The results of the expert consultation will feed into the Forum of the Synodical Way ‘Living in Successful Relationships — Living Love in Sexuality and Partnership,’ which will start work in February 2020,” the text concludes. https://www.breitbart.com/faith/201...nounce-homosexuality-normal-and-unchangeable/
So just a question here---what in the sam hill is up with these Germans.?!? They are like wrecking ball. They dont even stop to catch their breath. What's next. What will be the new assault upon nature and natural law. Honestly it is fatiguing.
I'm paying no heed to my own 'authority', but to that of The Church as She has preached throughout history. I rely on the Scriptures, the Fathers, Tradition, the words of hundreds of popes and saints all singing from the same hymn book. When similar authorities come out and anathematise Pope Francis, I'll follow their authority, but I ain't going solo, that's for sure.
We have entered a set of circumstances that Pope Pius might not have considered possible. I'm sure his statement is presumptive of a pontiff being faithful to faith and morals. Until very recently, any other possibility was unthinkable. That we have such a pope still doesn't make him not the pope.
Hi SgCatholic, perhaps these aren't times for overly stringent adherence to laws, codes, doctrines etc. of the Church. God seems to be permitting a certain flexibility in a number of areas as we seem to be entering a time of survival at the moment from all outward appearances; spiritual and perhaps even physical survival eventually, for a period.
Nice of them to correct that part where Jesus Christ got it wrong, not to mention that earlier error on Mount Sinai by His Father. Sure, how would Our Creator know anything about these matters? These very clever German bishops have finally seen where not only these Divine personages, but almost all human beings that ever lived could not get right. They are, in fact, so clever that they have discovered what all the world's scientists have hitherto failed to accomplish-the biological basis of homosexuality. Presumably, those many homosexuals that reverted to their biological sexuality are now disappeared from history. Now we await how they ingeniusly reconcile this new biological discovery of unchangeability with the 'gender-fluid' transexuals who can change their sex back and forth at the drop of a hat. That they expect to get more money in their collection baskets from adulterers and perverts is very cynical, whoever dared suggest it. On a more serious note, I read a post yesterday on Father Z, referencing a study, from the first half of the last century, of eighty civilisations in history that entered a phase of libertinism and I doubt many, if any, reached the extremes we are witnessing: all but three failed to survive beyond three generations from the beginning of their respective 'sexual revolutions'. This civilisation is well into this generational span and, as Cardinal Sarah points out, 'the day is now far spent'. This is a consolation, because it implies that the jig is nearly up and these shenanigans can't last much longer. It parallels the promise of Our Lord to keep these times short, so as to be more endurable.
You know, Lucifer wasn't as brazen as these German bishops. While he surpassed them for Pride, he has definitely been outdone by their stupidity. God help them.
How could the cleansing of the church come about in any other way? There had to be freedom from the top down to allow all the cardinals, bishops and priests to show their true colors (many rainbow apparently) If there is another way the church could be cleansed I'd love to hear how it would go down. The question is how bad will it get before things get restored?
Like they say, if the German Bishops are right, God owes Sodom and Gomorrah a big apology and we better throw out the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans for starters.
Dec. 10, 2019 Tangled Web of Transactions Utilized to Fund Bankrupt Italian Hospital NEWS ANALYSIS: The Register has reviewed documents that indicate Vatican officials employed covert and deceptive methods to divert 50 million euros needed at a children’s hospital to the troubled institution. Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...ns-utilized-to-fund-bankrupt-italian-hospital VATICAN CITY — Using costly methods that appear deceptive, Vatican officials diverted 50 million euros belonging to the Bambino Gesù children’s hospital in Rome to guarantee a loan for the same amount to a bankrupt Italian dermatology hospital in 2014, despite warnings from the cardinal appointed to oversee financial transparency not to go ahead with the transaction. According to documents seen by the Register, the officials, including two lay consultants who received six-figure commissions on top of their other salaries for their efforts, worked with two Curial cardinals to arrange for the Bambino Gesù hospital, which is under Vatican authority, to guarantee the loan to the Istituto Dermopatico dell’Immacolata (IDI). The IDI, then owned by the Congregation of the Sons of the Immaculate Conception (CFIC), was at the time on the brink of closure, with debts in excess of 600 million euro. A further body, a foundation called the Fondazione Luigi Maria Monti, was set up in 2015 to help save IDI and keep it within the field of Catholic health care. As reported by CNA in November, the loan was firmly opposed at the time by Cardinal George Pell, then the prefect of the Vatican Secretariat for the Economy, but Pope Francis overrode his opposition and agreed to let the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See (APSA) go ahead with the transaction. The Holy Father later canceled the hospital’s guarantee of the loan when he realized the error, but the 50 million euro has yet to be returned by APSA to the children’s hospital. Documents show that Vatican officials concealed the origins of the loan by forcing the Bambino Gesù to deposit the funds with APSA, the Vatican department also responsible for real estate management, in the form of a “certificate of deposit” (CD) issued by APSA itself. This usually takes the form of a no-risk loan to be repaid within a fixed time. APSA then used the CD as collateral to guarantee the loan to the IDI, which went to the congregation. The plan made it look as if APSA, rather than the Bambino Gesù hospital, which is a well-respected children’s hospital in Italy mostly funded by the Italian state, was providing the financing to the CFIC, IDI’s owners — something unlikely to have been allowed in view of the children’s hospital being mostly state-funded. ‘Smoke and Mirrors’ “The overall loan and guarantee transaction was executed covertly by APSA, shielded from the eyes of the public,” an informed source told the Register. “APSA didn’t lend the money to the Luigi Monti Foundation or to IDI. Formally, it was lent to the congregation (CFIC), who in turn instructed APSA to pay it out of their account to the foundation — it was all smoke and mirrors.” A March 2015 confirmation slip, seen by the Register, documents the funds’ transfer from the congregation to the foundation. According to other documents seen by the Register, in 2016, the Bambino Gesù’s current president, Mariella Enoc, asked Cardinal Domenico Calcagno, the president of APSA, to liquidate the CD and return the 50 million euro to the children’s hospital. To this day, however, the Register understands that the funds have not been returned, although Antonio Leozappa, the president of the Luigi Monti Foundation, has suggested loans to the IDI could be returned “in 2022 in case of a return to profitability.” The Register on Dec. 5 directly emailed Cardinal Calcagno’s successor, Archbishop Nunzio Galantino, about whether he could confirm the 50 million euro would be returned to the Bambino Gesù hospital, but he has not responded. Although committed to prevent the IDI from collapse with consequent job losses, Cardinal Pell advised the Pope and Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican secretary of state, in 2014 not to go ahead with the loan. “He considered it immoral to condemn the children’s hospital to losing money that it needed to treat needy children,” the Vatican source said. The source added that Cardinal Pell also believed it was “extremely dangerous to comingle the children’s hospital’s patrimony, which, for the most part, was made up of Italian government public funds, with IDI’s growing deficits and debt.” Vatican Bank Refusal A key reason why Vatican officials believed they had no option but to take this route was because the Institute for Works of Religion (IOR), better known as the Vatican Bank, had already refused to issue the loan on the grounds it was too risky and would be in breach of its new practices. Cardinal Pell concluded this was why Cardinal Calcagno, Cardinal Giuseppe Versaldi, then-president of CFIC, and Giuseppe Profiti, then-president of the Bambino Gesù, insisted on obtaining the loan guarantee from the children’s hospital, along with the fact that they knew that the children’s hospital had extensive funds to draw upon. All three underwrote the loan guarantee from the Bambino Gesù, according to documents examined by the Register. But before doing so, they tried to win over Cardinal Pell and the Pope by hiring the accountancy giant KPMG to conduct a feasibility study to show how the loan could and would be repaid. But when Cardinal Pell’s office asked that KPMG sign their study, the firm refused to do so. The Register has asked KPMG’s Italian branch, which conducted the study, why the accountant group was unwilling to endorse it, but so far has received no response. On the strength of the study, Pope Francis and Cardinal Parolin went ahead with the 50 million-euro loan despite opposition from Cardinal Pell and others — something the Vatican source said became a pattern. “The Pope again chose to override his own regulatory authorities and side instead with the ‘old guard’ leaders whom he had failed to replace,” the source said. In Nov. 28 comments to veteran Vatican reporter Sandro Magister, Leozappa said the Luigi Monti Foundation had not received financing from APSA or from the Bambino Gesù. But this was never in question, as documents show the loan had been given to the congregation rather than to the foundation, although it was the final beneficiary of the loan along with IDI itself. Laymen Received Commissions And although Cardinal Parolin told Catholic News Agency he was responsible for “operations involving IDI,” two laymen played significant roles as consultants to APSA regarding the Bambino Gesù loan: professor Franco Dalla Sega of the Catholic University of the Sacred Heart in Milan, and Carmine Stingone, a Rome-based attorney, both of whom received six-figure commissions for their work in securing the loan. In a July 2016 letter to both Dalla Sega and Stingone, Msgr. Mauro Rivella, secretary to APSA, thanked them for their professional services and detailed how they would receive “.25% on the total value of the operation of €50 million,” amounting to 125,000 euro plus expenses. A January 2017 payment confirmation from APSA shows Dalla Sega received a gross total of almost 175,000 euro, on top of his salary as a consultant for APSA, a position he still holds. Stingone has since ceased employment with the dicastery. Dalla Sega was also a member of the Fondazione Luigi Monti board of directors while he worked to secure the loan for CFIC, a clear conflict of interest that would later catch the attention of Cardinal Pell and Libero Milone, the Vatican’s former auditor general. The Register asked Dalla Sega Dec. 5 why he negotiated the loan despite the opposition of Cardinal Pell and others, how he justified such a large commission in addition to his salary, and whether APSA would be returning the loan to the Bambino Gesù, but he has also not responded. ***
DeGaulle, you are contradicting yourself. Here you presume to have the ability and authority to decide that Pope Pius XI, in his encyclical, made a statement that doesn't apply in today's circumstances. Let's not forget that the Modernists say the same about various established teachings of the Church. Why, we have a good example with the German bishops now! On the other hand you shy away from admitting that a 'pope' who teaches heresy cannot be true pope. Even if you had believed him to be the true pope, when he publicly and obstinately spouts heresies and goes against the 1st Commandment, surely you can see that he is no longer Catholic, let alone pope. Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. +
Yes well said. It's like cleaning up a big old mess. You start stripping down the layers one by one til you get to the bottom. Slow hard unappreciated work. One layer at a time. Like draining a swamp. There is always a bad smell as it is draining.
I think we need to be cautious on this, HH. Every sincere prayer rooted in love for the Church and love for the Pope is enfolded into the Immaculate Heart which Mary then presents to the Lord. They are never discarded even if the end result is not what we expected. In fact, woe is me if I point a finger at the Pope yet fail to join my hands in prayer on his behalf! O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
That was my point, Mario, only I must have not worded it correctly. My point is that we don’t know how things will turn out, but we pray for the Pope and the hierarchy, and we hope for the best. We can’t just give up and say we have an apostate Pope, because look at the conversion of Saul. Faith as a grain of mustard seed
I too, pray for the conversion of C.Bergoglio and all the other Modernists in the hierarchy. But St Paul is clear - (public) heretics and apostates who preach to us are anathema. They lead many souls to hell. +
