The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

  2. AED

    AED Powers

  3. Mario

    Mario Powers


    “These two terms, ‘inculturation’ and ‘sinicization,’ refer to each other without confusion and without opposition.

    “For the future, it will certainly be important to deepen this theme, especially the relationship between ‘inculturation’ and ‘sinicization,’ keeping in mind how the Chinese leadership has been able to reiterate their willingness not to undermine the nature and the doctrine of each religion,” Parolin said.

    “There is confidence that a new phase of greater cooperation can now be opened for the good of the Chinese Catholic community and the harmony of the whole society,” he said.

    Parolin also said that it should not come as a surprise that there is criticism of the deal between the Holy See and the Chinese government, as this is what “generally happens in complex issues and when one faces problems of great importance.”

    I realize that Parolin functions primarily on a diplomatic level, but in all of my life, there have only been a few times I have seen such capitulation to the prince of darkness!:cry:

    Meanwhile, Catholic Churches continue to be demolished, those under 18 barred from public worship, and the underground church persecuted.

    The Chinese must laugh at such groveling.:(:mad:

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    Beth B, DeGaulle, AED and 1 other person like this.
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    IF you think things are bad now, prepared to be scared to death....


    Medjugorje: Fr. Leon “Our Lady told me one thing about the future. The time is coming when almost every Catholic will be ashamed of the words of Jesus, except on a few.”
    May 14, 2019 ryanmysticpost 2333 Views 0 Comments

    Drama at 10 minute 35 sec. “Our Lady told me one thing about the future. The time is coming when almost every Catholic will be ashamed of the words of Jesus, except on a few.”

    DeGaulle, AED and Sam like this.
  5. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Ah, Padraig, but the good priest really scared me to death when he added that the Catholics who will be ashamed of the words of Jesus will be the ones to persecute those who are faithful at that time!

    Lord Jesus, I am weak and so beg You to allow me to suffer for love of Your Name and remain faithful to the end.:notworthy: St. Stephen, pray for us!

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I get the strong impression of great sanctity from Fr Leon. :) What a wonderful priest. Bless him.
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  7. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Isn't this happening already?
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  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think that the time is coming when they will actually seek our lives. I suppose to an extent this is happening already.

    This is prefigured in Scripture where it talks of the Virgin with Child fleeing to the Wilderness, pursued by the Dragon.

    The fact that our fellow Catholics will be leading the hunt is a Huge Sign of the Times and a Sign of the End of all things.

    I think it was St Thomas Aquinas who said that when the good become bad they become the worst of the worst. So that Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and..dare I say it...Popes turn to the Dark Path they become the Darkest of the Dark. Demons incarnate.

    If we look to lives of the saints we can see this over and over. That it was their fellow religious most of all who Satan rose against them to oppose them.

    There is a story from the life of St Margaret Mary Alocoque I always found very striking.. One night many of her her fellow nuns rose from their beds dragging the saint from one end of the convent to the to her screaming and screeching giving her a terrible, terrible beating. The other nuns cowered terrified.

    I would say the human demons who inhabit the Vatican at the moment are a thousand times worse then this. I am staying clear of Rome. Well clear.

    When I look at some of their faces it nearly makes my hair stand on end. Truly terrible. Hell come to Earth.

    People have just no idea how bad things are. These things have gotten in there. Only fire will drive them all out.

    Only fire; the fire of God's Justice.
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  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    One of the very worst thing these evil people in the Vatican are doing at the moment is gas lighting us. We must be aware of this and resist it:

    Jo M and AED like this.
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    You know I don't think we have become aware yet that the people we are dealing with in the Vatican are totally, totally evil. We must be aware of this and steer the ships of our souls accordingly.

    How Jesus treated the Sanhedrin who condemned him to death is a good example.

  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    We have to be careful about taking quotes out of context and using them as justification for personally rejecting a sitting pope. Rejecting a pontiff is to separate oneself from the Church and from eternal life. Reject errors that may be taught, yes. But reject the pontiff himself and his authority, no.

    “He who rebels against our Father, Christ on earth, is condemned to death, for that which we do to him, we do to Christ in heaven – we honor Christ if we honor the pope, we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the pope… I tell you that God will and has so commanded that even if the priests and the pastors of the Church and Christ on earth were incarnate devils, it is seemly that we are obedient and subject to them, not for their sake, but for the sake of God, out of obedience to Him, for He wills that we should act thus.

    “Know that the son is never in the right against the father, even if the father is ever so evil and unjust, for so great is the good which he has received from the father, that is, life itself, that he can never repay him for it. And we have received the life of grace from the Church, which is so great a benefit, that we can never, by any kind of homage or gratitude, pay the debt we owe.”

    -From Anne Baldwin’s Catherine of Siena: A Biography. Huntington, IN: OSV Publishing, 1987, pp. 95-6.
  12. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    :love::love::love: Words and prayer so well said, Mario.
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  13. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I think that the following has not been posted yet.

    The heresy letter is intelligent, but doesn’t quite convince
    Edward Peters | 9 May, 2019 |
    The open letter “accusing Pope Francis of the canonical delict of heresy” raises several canonical questions. It is generally recognised, subject to important qualifications, that a pope can commit material, formal or obstinate heresy triggering thereby, for himself and the Church, canonical consequences running from the almost non-existent to the catastrophic.

    Academics have speculated on procedures for assessing allegations of papal heresy but have concluded little except that a pope cannot be put on trial (c 1404). Given the gravity of obstinate heresy in a pope, however, it is accepted that some mechanism for assessing and, if demonstrated, proclaiming such heresy must exist.

    The right of the letter’s signatories to publish their contentious opinions is protected by Canon 212 § 3 and they correctly recite the elements of a heresy case (cc 751, 1364). But, as an outline of a canonical case against a pope for heresy, the letter stumbles in several crucial respects. Most seriously, it fails to grapple with the “principle of benignity” in the interpretation of law and evidence.

    For many centuries canon law has expressly demanded that “in penal matters the more benign interpretation must be followed” (Regula Iuris 49), meaning, in brief, that the benefit of the doubt is to be accorded the accused in a criminal case. This interpretive principle goes beyond canon law: it is fundamental to the Western legal tradition.

    The principle of benignity demands that, in every facet of the penal process, one must, for example, construe penal norms as narrowly as is reasonably possible (c 18) and judge the accused only and strictly in accord with law (c 221 § 3). But the letter consistently fails to appreciate, or even allude to, the principle of benignity as it impacts any penal matter, let alone one involving a pope.

    The letter claims, for example, after reciting several statements by Francis, that “understood in their most obvious sense, the statements listed above are heretical.” But that assertion, even if it were factually correct, is canonically irrelevant for, per the principle of benignity, if an orthodox interpretation exists for an ambiguous theological assertion, that benign interpretation must be ascribed to the words of the accused – regardless of whether the accused actually intended such an interpretation. To adapt a phrase from A Man for All Seasons, the world may construe words according to its wits, but courts must construe according to law.

    Again, the letter correctly notes that behaviour can be taken as evidence of heresy. A traditional example is mentioned in the letter: a man’s failure to kneel before the Blessed Sacrament could be evidence of his heretical denial of the Real Presence. But such behaviour could be also explained on other grounds ranging from mere physical disability to intentional disrespect for the Real Presence. Thus a man’s failure to kneel, even if it indicates an offence, would not be evidence of heresy.

    Ironically, the principle of benignity also protects the signatories: there is talk of their being sanctioned, but I would reject that. The letter, though wrong-headed, can, and thus should, be taken in an ecclesially acceptable sense.

    Heresy cases are not impossible under canon law, but they are, and are meant to be, very difficult. As a brief against the pope for, say, chronic misuse of his office (c 1389, a crime for which a pope cannot be tried), I find the letter thought-provoking; as an admonition to His Holiness that his words and actions have attracted serious, unprecedented, negative attention, I find the text instructive. But as a canonical brief for a papal heresy case, I find it unconvincing.

    Edward Peters is a canon lawyer
    Praetorian, This is very well said.

    This is very well said also.

    Thank you.
  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Amen! Truth! We must not reject the pontiff.
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Nothing is as bad as the corruption of the best.
    AED, HeavenlyHosts and Jo M like this.
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yeah I must be honest, perfectly honest about it when I view Pope Francis at the moment I am filled with a sense of perfect horror.

    It's not just about what he says or does. Just looking at him.


    Well anyway. I am in Ireland .

    He is in Rome.

    Thank God for that.

    Miles and miles and miles apart.

    The more the better.

    He makes me squirm.

    I no longer care if he is the Pope or not.




    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    Agnes rose likes this.
  17. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I kinda feel that way also .I do pray for the church especially the Pope every morning. I try not to think beyond that. It's all in God's hands. Things are really speeding up though.
    Tanker, Jo M and Praetorian like this.
  18. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    I also feel the same. I pray for him but i cannot even read the stories.
    Tanker and Praetorian like this.
  19. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Good advice here and it's a short video - only about 13 minutes:

    Have you noticed how rarely the Rosary is mentioned nowadays? In many churches small groups of parishioners pray the Rosary before or after daily Mass but it's rare to hear a priest promote it.
    Don_D likes this.
  20. SteveD

    SteveD Archangels

    To separate oneself from the Pope is to abandon the Church? Conversely, is deference/obedience to the current claimant to the title to do exactly the same?

    Am I prepared to accept the claim to the Pontificate in the face of so much information that indicates that it was illicitly assumed and therefore, presumably, invalid? Does not almost every one of his utterances provide doubt (at least) that his appointment was divinely inspired or sanctioned? Happily his predecessor (if that is what he is) is still with us which fulfills the promise that we would never be without a successor of Peter. If Benedict's resignation was forced then his decision not to retire into obscurity and silence but to remain in the Vatican and sign himself as Pope makes perfect sense. There is so much more that could be said but I defer to Laurence England who has clearly thought much more deeply than I have about our dire situation and I commend Frank Walker's thoughts in a similar vein.
    SgCatholic likes this.

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