The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Too little, and at least six years too late.

    The "seamless garment" crowd are in control. They'll nod graciously at what they will dismiss as the quaint ravings of an out of touch old man who relinquished the authority he underused and will go ahead pushing the very Godless agenda which brought the crisis upon us. McCarrick was sent to China on Church business, and McCarrick's choices are being appointed to influential dioceses and are being made Cardinals. McCarrick's enablers will choose the next Pope, just like they selected this Pope when the Holy See wasn't vacant.

    Having run from the wolves, what's the use of describing the wolves and concluding by thanking the wolf-in-situ and claiming that he is making improvements when clearly he is on overdrive pushing the wolves' agenda?

    It's clutching at straws to see this as some kind of game changer. Better to pray that somehow the Holy Spirit can bring about the election of Cardinal Sarah at the next conclave, and that the conclave happens before Pope Francis hands over the authority of the papacy to every Bishop. Given how the hierarchy is packed with the lavender lobby I don't know how the Holy Spirit can fix it, but all things are possible with God.
     
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  2. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes, perhaps I was a bit overenthusiastic when I read the excerpts of Pope Emeritus Benedict's letter last night. It was late when I read the article and I was just happy to see someone mentioning homosexual cliques as a part of the problem. Looking at it again today in a more full context the letter doesn't seem to be something to get that excited over. It is something, but not a game changer or anything close. Quite honestly I am surprised that Bishop Schneider's letter did not make bigger waves. To me that is the biggest piece of Church news to come out since Amoris Laetitia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  3. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I am taking Pope Benedict's essay as a sign not a game changer. I still think that we need a Divine intervention for a game changer to occur but this could be a sign that the Triumph of Our Lady's Immaculate heart is, in fact, very close along with a period of peace. What exactly comes before these things I am not certain but this all God's plan, I believe.

    Here are two more articles about this essay that Edward Pentin happened to post the links to today.

    Benedict Speaks
    by R.R. Reno| 4/10/2019
    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/04/benedict-speaks

    Pope emeritus Benedict XVI: Return to God to overcome abuse crisis
    Pope emeritus Benedict XVI publishes his reflections on the scandal of sexual abuse in the Church, saying it was made possible by a progressive eclipse of faith in God.
    By Sergio Centofanti | 4/10/2019 | https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...sexual-abuse-crisis.html#.XK9TKzvrxuA.twitter
     
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  4. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    I think...we still don’t believe. Cardinal Sarah and Pope Benedict are not giving up. They are publicly entering the battle. But most importantly, they are stating it is a spiritual war. One needs to believe in God to enter battle...and change will come.

    Change will not come from within the Church. Change will come when more people begin to have true faith.

    The question now becomes how does Our Holy Father react to these comments. Even the tone of these spiritual warriors are much different then Cardinal Burke. But what the have stated totally goes contrary to Pope Francis.

    Very interesting time.

    Br. al
     
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  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Great post, Carol.
     
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  6. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Short of a miracle, I think we know how the Holy Father will react. Someone like Fr. James Martin will be made a Bishop, and he will turn a blind eye to the French and German Bishops authorising "we won't call it marriage" ceremonies.

    Faithful Bishops and priests will be encouraged by the words of the Pope Emeritus. Some of them must feel very isolated. Please God, it will strengthen their faith and give them a boost.
     
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  7. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Pope Emeritus Benedict's essay was the topic of EWTN's World Over programme tonight. The Papal Posse were on and there was a video link with Cardinal Muller. I think it's a symptom of what has gone wrong in the Church when priests of Fr. Murray's calibre are overlooked in favour of so many who can't see the wood for the trees. Don't be surprised to see all the usual news outlets oohing and ahhing over Pope Francis kissing the feet of the Sudanese men he and the Anglican Archbishop met. Anything to distract attention from the crisis in the Church. The EWTN programme will probably be on YouTube within the next day or two. Keep an eye out for it.

    Garabandal posted a link to a video of Sr. Briege McKenna taking about the Mass. It was one of a series of talks she gave in Canada in 2017 and it's really worth watching. (I didn't like her bringing Medjugorje into it but other than that, it's inspirational). Sr. Briege's second talk was about Confession.

    Her third talk got me thinking that, with Holy Week coming up, if everyone devoted just one hour of Adoration to praying for the Pope, we could see a turn-around in the Church and Pope Benedict's breaking his silence could have a positive effect on Pope Francis.

    Here's a link to Sr. Briege's third talk:

     
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  8. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Benedict is a gentleman and will do nothing other than what he promised when he secluded himself: prayer, contemplation, and reflection. He will never call out or duel with Pope Francis. He has made three significant appearances. Once when he spoke to the Pope and company about the importance of the Eucharist, finishing with thanking Francis for his hospitality. The next was when he made "the Barque" is taking on water statement , and now when he spoke about causes and solutions. Even in this one he made references to responses that Pope Frances has failed to make himself.

    It's time for the Schneiders, Sarahs, and Burkes of the Church to continue to come to the plate, as they have now started to do!:)

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
     
  9. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I don't know what to make of this other than that it is an incredibly humble act on the part of Pope Francis. Start the video at the 29 min mark if it does not start there automatically.

     
  10. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    https://abyssum.org/2019/04/11/it-i...ces-the-reaction-on-the-part-of-the-supporte/

    IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT Pope Benedict DID NOT RELEASE HIS POWERFUL MESSAGE THROUGH THE VATICAN BUT INSTEAD RELEASED IT THROUGH GERMAN AND AMERICAN NEWS SOURCES, THE REACTION ON THE PART OF THE SUPPORTERS OF FRANCIS THE MERCIFUL HAS BEEN WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT, HOSTILITY

    Posted on April 11, 2019 by abyssum
    Benedict’s powerful message—and the bid to suppress it
    By Phil Lawler (bioarticlesemail) | Apr 11, 2019

    CATHOLIC CULTURE.ORG

    After six years of public silence, broken only by a few mild personal comments, Pope-emeritus Benedict has spoken out dramatically, with a 6,000-word essay on sexual abuse that has been described as a sort of post-papal encyclical. Clearly the retired Pontiff felt compelled to write: to say things that were not being said. Benedict thought the subject was too important to allow for his continued silence.

    Vatican communications officials thought differently, it seems. Benedict’s essay became public on Wednesday night, but on Thursday morning there was no mention of the extraordinary statement in the Vatican’s news outlets. (Later in the day the Vatican News service issued a report summarizing Benedict’s essay; it appeared “below the fold” on the Vatican News web page, below a headline story on relief efforts for cyclone victims in Mozambique.) For that matter it is noteworthy that the former Pope’s statement was not published by a Vatican outlet in the first place; it first appeared in the German Klerusblatt and the Italian secular newspaper Corriere della Sera, along with English translations by the Catholic News Agency and National Catholic Register.

    Benedict reports that he consulted with Pope Francis before publishing the essay. He does not say that the current Pope encouraged his writing, and it is difficult to imagine that Pope Francis was enthusiastic about his predecessor’s work on this issue. The two Popes, past and present, are miles apart in their analysis of the sex-abuse scandal. Nowhere does Benedict mention the “clericalism” that Pope Francis has cited as the root cause of the problem, and rarely has Pope Francis mentioned the moral breakdown that Benedict blames for the scandal.

    The silence of the official Vatican media is a clear indication that Benedict’s essay has not found a warm welcome at the St. Martha residence. Even more revealing is the frantic reaction of the Pope’s most ardent supporters, who have flooded the internet with their embarrassed protests, their complaints that Benedict is sadly mistaken when he suggests that the social and ecclesiastical uproar of the 1960s gave rise to the epidemic of abuse.

    Those protests against Benedict—the mock-sorrowful sighs that we all know sexual abuse is not a function of rampant sexual immorality—should be seen as signals to the secular media. And secular outlets, sympathetic to the causes of the sexual revolution, will duly carry the message that Benedict is out of touch, that his thesis has already been disproven.

    But facts, as John Adams observed, are stubborn things. And the facts testify unambiguously in Benedict’s favor. Something happened in the 1960s and thereafter to precipitate a rash of clerical abuse. Yes, the problem had arisen in the past. But every responsible survey has shown a stunning spike in clerical abuse, occurring just after the tumult that Benedict describes in his essay. Granted, the former Pontiff has not proven, with apodictic certainty, that the collapse of Catholic moral teaching led to clerical abuse. But to dismiss his thesis airily, as if it had been tested and rejected, is downright dishonest.

    Facts are facts, no matter who proclaims them. The abuse crisis did arise in the muddled aftermath of Vatican II. Benedict puts forward a theory to explain why that happened. His theory is not congenial to the ideas of liberal Catholic intellectuals, but that fact does not excuse their attempt to suppress a discussion, to deny basic realities. (Come to think of it, this is not the first time that the public defenders of Pope Francis have encouraged the public to ignore facts, to entertain the possibility that 2+2=5.)

    That message—the message of Pope-emeritus Benedict—is a striking departure from the messages that have been issued by so many Church leaders. The former Pope does not write about “policies and procedures;” he does not suggest a technical or legalistic solution to a moral problem. On the contrary he insists that we focus our attention entirely on that moral problem and then move on to a solution which must also, necessarily, be found in the moral realm.

    As background for his message, Benedict recalls the 1960s, when “an egregious event occurred, on a scale unprecedented in history.” He writes about the breakdown in public morality, which was unfortunately accompanied by the “dissolution of the moral teaching authority of the Church.” This combination of events left the Church largely defenseless, he says.

    In an unsparing analysis, Benedict writes of the problems in priestly formation, as “homosexual cliques were established, which acted more or less openly and significantly changed the climate in seminaries.” He acknowledges that a visitation of American seminaries produced no major improvements. He charges that some bishops “rejected the Catholic tradition as a whole.” He sees the turmoil as a fundamental challenge to the essence of the faith, observing that if there are no absolute truths—no eternal verities for which one might willingly give one’s life—then the concept of Christian martyrdom seems absurd. He writes: “The fact that martyrdom is no longer morally necessary in the theory advocated [by liberal Catholic theologians] shows that the very essence of Christianity is at stake here.”

    “A world without God can only be a world without meaning,” Benedict warns. “Power is then the only principle.” In such a world, how can society guard against those who use their powers over others for self-gratification? “Why did pedophilia reach such proportions?” Benedict asks. He answers: “Ultimately, the reason is the absence of God.”

    It is by restoring the presence of God, then, that Benedict suggests the Church must respond to this unprecedented crisis. He connects the breakdown in morality with a lack of reverence in worship, “a way of dealing with Him that destroys the greatness of the Mystery.” Mourning the grotesque ways in which predatory priests have blasphemed the Blessed Sacrament, he writes that “we must do all we can to protect the gift of the Holy Eucharist from abuse.”

    In short Pope-emeritus Benedict draws the connection between the lack of reverence for God and the lack of appreciation for human dignity—between the abuse of liturgy and the abuse of children. Faithful Catholics should recognize the logic and force of that message. And indeed Benedict voices his confidence that the most loyal sons and daughters of the Church will work—are already working—toward the renewal he awaits:

    If we look around and listen with an attentive heart, we can find witnesses everywhere today, especially among ordinary people, but also in the high ranks of the Church, who stand up for God with their life and suffering.

    Still the renewal will not come easily; it will entail suffering. For Benedict, that suffering will include the waves of hostility that his essay has provoked, the dismissive attitude of much lesser theologians, the campaign to write him off as an elderly crank. No doubt the former Pope anticipated the opposition that his essay would encounter. He chose to “send out a strong message” anyway, because suffering for the truth is a powerful form of Christian witness.

    [​IMG]
    Phil Lawler has been a Catholic journalist for more than 30 years. He has edited several Catholic magazines and written eight books. Founder of Catholic World News, he is the news director and lead analyst at CatholicCulture.org. See full bio.
     
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  11. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    For anyone who has not read the full writing of Pope Emeritus Benedict's letter I would urge you to take the time to read it fully and not just what is cherry picked by reporters. It is a profound thing, what one might have expected to come from the meeting on the sex abuse crisis. It is full of faith and hope. I have no idea if it is being intentionally suppressed or not but since it came from the pen of PE Benedict XVI it will be heavily spun and criticized I know that much.

    https://abyssum.org/2019/04/10/at-l...-but-obviously-retains-sharpness-of-intellec/
     
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  12. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The era of the sixties is crucial, 'though a culmination of things that were coming for a long time. The history of the sexual revolution has been documented in great detail in E. Michael Jones' "Libido Dominandi" (anyone interested in reading this ought to take note not to buy the hardback version, in Polish, which I accidentally did-having returned this, I downloaded it from Archives.org and sent Jones a donation to cover copyright). The book categorically confirms the view of Benedict.
     
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  13. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I agree with Dolours that we should all watch the following, imho the program is very well done.



    In the beginning of the program, Raymond Arroyo states that Pope Benedict had approval from both Pope Francis and the Secretary to put forth this document. As for the essay not being distributed through the Vatican News primarily, I believe that they realize that there is a sort of schism in the Church right now. Therefore, imho, although this essay was written for everyone the obvious audience for this essay are the orthodox Catholics, the Remnant, whereas the February summit was for "the world". It makes sense to me to publish it primarily in the go to news sources for the Remnant which is not the Vatican News. I am not stating this as a negative, I am thankful that Pope Benedict was able to more or less fill in the gaps that the summit left wide open.

    I also agree with what Dolours stated here, "if everyone devoted just one hour of Adoration to praying for the Pope, we could see a turn-around in the Church and Pope Benedict's breaking his silence could have a positive effect on Pope Francis." On a related note, member Soldier of Christ setup the following thread and if you have not signed up yet you can still do so Can you spare 1 hour on Good Friday for a forum Holy Hour?
     
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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    totally agree !
    Would like to mention that the Holy Hour can be done online from your own home.
     
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  15. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

  16. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    A little more info on the retreat and situation in South Sudan...

     
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I don't get our Pope. If someone else can explain this please do, because I am at a loss for words on the following. Were we not told that our pope cannot genuflect at the consecration of the body and blood of Jesus because he has bad knees? Yet, he can kneel to kiss feet? If it is 'humbleness' to kiss these Sudan's leaders feet, why does he not kneel in humility to the true presence of Jesus in Eucharist?

    From The Associated Press:

    [​IMG]Pope Francis knelt and kissed the feet of South Sudan’s rival leaders Thursday, in an unprecedented act of humbleness to encourage them to strengthen the African country’s faltering peace process.

    At the close a two-day retreat in the Vatican for the African leaders, the pope asked South Sudan’s president and opposition leader to proceed with the peace agreement despite growing difficulties. Then he got down on his knees and kissed the leaders’ feet one by one. The pope usually holds a ritual washing of the feet with prisoners on Holy Thursday, but has never performed such a show of deference to political leaders.
     
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  18. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    He can barely get up and down even with help from two people.
     
  19. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    It's natural that Pope Emeritus Benedict would have second thoughts about releasing anything through the Vatican apparatus after the fast one they pulled on him when they photoshopped that letter he wrote a couple of years ago to make it appear to say something it did not o_O
     
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  20. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    Yes, when you consider that the Pope's weak knees prevent him from kneeling in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, I am not feeling his 'humbleness' in this particular situation. I could be dead wrong here, but the feet kissing felt staged. When I first saw the video, it made me cringe; my heart was telling me that something was off.
    That said, I continuously fight a spiritual battle when PF
    either says or does something that I have to question. I feel terribly sad and guilty when I have to struggle to understand our Holy Father. Just feels so wrong. God help us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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