The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    You definitely have a point.
    I have trouble finding a middle ground.
    I stay busy with home and family and that helps. Going to Mass and devotions is where I feel the most peace.
     
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  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    It is hard to know what to do or say sometimes in these times of grave crisis. For myself I have tended recently to do as St Paul counselled and to concentrate on all that is holy, spiritual and uplifting. That rather than than which vexs me and casts me down.

    2 Corinthians 10:5


    5 hcasting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

    Proverbs 23:7


    7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.


    “Eat and drink!” dhe says to you,


    But his heart is not with you.


    On the other hand I imagine myself as a passenger in a car driving along the road. The driver is starting to drive dangerously and erratically; I begin to suspect he is quite drunk. Clearly for my own safety, the safety of the other passengers and the driver himself I must speak up and stop the car. Silence is not an option.

    Difficult times.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  3. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    We have good priests in our parish one very holy elderly priest. We are lucky. I try and keep my focus on them and I pray for all priests and bishops in Ireland every day. The problem is with the bishops. They think running the church with listening processes and whiteboards and moderators and animation groups will solve the problems and dispense of the need to preach the gospel in all its fullness.
    We sure live in difficult times. It must be very difficult for the many good and holy priests.
     
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  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I wonder if when the Church starts to fall apart it might be better for them in a strange way..when they are more on their own and out of these peoples control? More able to act on their own steam?

    Who knows?
    In the course of time as the dawn of persecution comes the ones who seek power and money and prestige will all leave, the highest first. This purification will be a source of great consolation. More and more ours will be a Church of real saints, led by saints.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  5. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    My mistake, my recollection faultily was of a painting. Personally, I had no problem with what the statue depicted.
     
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    All that episcopal behaviour amounts to evasion, a whistling past the graveyard. They think that by presenting an appearance of action that they are absolved from anything further.
     
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  7. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I think it is better to discuss the good, the bad and the ugly; as long as it is based on facts.

    The Vortex has this on Bishop Gregory's appointment to DC.


    ref: Rally Demands Good Bishop for Washington DC 2/18/2019 - https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/dc-rally-seeks-lay-voice-in-archbishop-selection


    ***

    Apr. 6, 2019
    Author Accuses Honduran Cardinal of ‘Betrayal’ and ‘Cover-Up’ in New Book
    Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga was once close friends with Martha Alegria Reichmann, author of the Spanish-language Traiciones Sagradas (Sacred Betrayal).
    Edward Pentin | http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...cardinal-of-betrayal-and-cover-up-in-new-book
    upload_2019-4-6_10-23-21.png

     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That video from Michael Voris is really, really informative. I highly recommend that everyone watches it. It’s not long. It’s truly disgusting what has happened and continues to happen in our Church.
    Thanks, Carol, for posting this.
     
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  9. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    HH, You're very welcome. I agree that Michael Voris is doing a good job of reporting what is occurring in our Church.

    The following article is good also imho.

    An open letter to Cardinal Reinhard Marx
    Your Eminence, the German Church — the Catholicism of my ancestors — is dying.
    March 27, 2019 George Weigel Essay, Features 29 Print | https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2019/03/27/an-open-letter-to-cardinal-reinhard-marx/
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich-Freising, president of the German bishops' conference. (CNS photo/Sascha Steinbach, EPA)


    Your Eminence:

    I noted with interest your recent announcement of a “binding synodal process” during which the Church in Germany will discuss the celibacy of the Latin-rite Catholic priesthood, the Church’s sexual ethic and clericalism, these being “issues” put on the table by the crisis of clerical sexual abuse.

    Perhaps the following questions will help sharpen your discussions.

    1) How can the “synodal process” of a local Church produce “binding” results on matters affecting the entire Catholic Church? The Anglican Communion tried this and is now in terminal disarray; the local Anglican churches that took the path of cultural accommodation are comatose. Is this the model you and your fellow-bishops favor?

    2) What does the celibacy of priests in the Latin-rite have to do with the sexual abuse crisis? Celibacy has no more to do with sexual abuse than marriage has to do with spousal abuse. Empirical studies indicate that most sexual abuse of the young takes place within (typically broken) families; Protestant denominations with a married clergy also suffer from the scourge of sexual abuse; and in any event, marriage is not a crime-prevention program. Is it cynical to imagine that the abuse crisis is now being weaponized to mount an assault on clerical celibacy, what with other artillery having failed to dislodge this ancient Catholic tradition?

    3) According to a Catholic News Agency report, you suggested that “the significance of sexuality to personhood has not yet received sufficient attention from the Church.” Really? Has St. John Paul II’s Theology of the Body not been translated into German? Perhaps it has, but it may be too long and complex to have been properly absorbed by German-speaking Catholics. Permit me then, to draw your attention to pp. 347-358 of Zeuge der Hoffnung (Ferdinand Schoeningh, 2002) the German translation of Witness to Hope, the first volume of my John Paul II biography. There, you and your colleagues will find a summary of the Theology of the Body, including its richly personalistic explanation of the Church’s ethic of human love and its biblically-rooted understanding of celibacy undertaken for the Kingdom of God.

    4) You also note that your fellow-bishops “feel…unable to speak on questions of present-day sexual behavior.” That was certainly not the case at the Synods of 2014, 2015, and 2018, where German bishops felt quite able to speak frequently to these questions, albeit in a way that typically mirrored today’s politically-correct fashions. And I’m sure I’m not alone in wondering just when the German episcopate last spoke to “present-day sexual behavior” in a way that promoted the Church’s ethic of human love as life-affirming and ordered to human happiness and fulfillment, at least in the years since its massive dissent from Humanae Vitae (Pope St. Paul VI’s 1968 encyclical on the ethics of family planning)? But that, as I understand Pope Francis, is what he is calling us all to do: Witness to, preach, and teach the “Yes” that undergirds everything to which the Church must, in fidelity to both revelation and reason, say “No.”

    5) The CNA report also noted that your “synodal process” (which, in a nice tip of the miter to Hegel, you described as a “synodal progression”) would involve consultations with the Central Committee of German Catholics. My dear Cardinal Marx, this is rather like President Trump consulting with Fox News or Speaker Pelosi consulting with the editors of the New York Times. If you’ll pardon the reference to Major Heinrich Strasser in Casablanca, even we blundering Americans know that the ZdK, the Zentralkomitee der Deutschen Katholiken, is the schwerpunkt, the spearhead that clears the ground to the far left so that the German bishops can position themselves as the “moderate” or “centrist” force in the German Church. You know, and I know, and everyone else should know that consultations with the ZdK will produce nothing but further attacks on celibacy, further affirmations of current sexual fads, and further deprecations of Humane Vitae (based, in part, on the ZdK’s evident ignorance of the Theology of the Body and German hostility to John Paul II’s 1993 encyclical on the renovation of Catholic moral theology, Veritatis Splendor).

    Your Eminence, the German Church — the Catholicism of my ancestors — is dying. It will not be revitalized by becoming a simulacrum of moribund liberal Protestantism.

    I wish you a fruitful Lent and a joyful Easter.
    Ref.
    Cardinal Marx announces German church 'synodal process' on ...
    www.catholicnewsagency.comNewsVatican March 14, 2019
    Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich and Freising has announced that the Catholic Church in Germany is embarking on a "binding synodal process" to tackle what he says are the three key issues​

    ***

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    George Weigel is wasting his time addressing 'punch-me-face' Marx. The destruction of the Church that Weigel warns him against is exactly the outcome that Marx desires, so such entreaties are only more likely to encourage him-the situation where 'moribund liberal Protestantism' finds itself is exactly the outcome that Marx wishes for, Christianity without a Cross.
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Dear God.
     
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  12. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

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  13. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    ..
    I think that you have good instincts Dolours. I think we all should be leery of Bannon and the things he is involved in. His support of far right candidates is concerning in Europe also such as Italy. I believe that his strategy will give rise to support of extreme forms of nationalism which is always good to be on guard of especially in light of the backlash we are seeing in Europe to immigration now. I do not know much about the Dignitatis Humanae Institute but I do know that both Burke and Sarah have lent their names to this institute so hopefully they will sound the alarm should things go off the rails.
    I believe that the response to the immigration problems in Europe and also the US is being deliberately managed to manipulate people and swing them and their governments very far to the right on these issues.

    Bannon touched on something that I think we are going to see happening soon in the US and that is the possibility of the state investigations being kicked up to the feds and RICO statutes coming into play which will mean the seizure of assets of the church in the US and like he said when the rest of the story comes out of abuse cases in South America and other continents we could see this happen in many many more places also.
     
  14. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I'd take very much with a grain of salt the label of 'far-right' that is applied to parties that don't share the liberal-globalist consensus. The reality is that most of these parties share policies that only a few short decades ago would have been considered the moderate centre and these parties now find themselves dismissed as rightist, when what has really happened is a radical move to the far left by the others. It is democracy when the deplorables do what they're told, but populism when they begin to object. Nationalism is rarely guilty of the crimes of which it is accused-most of these have been perpetrated by imperialists, whether the British, German, Nazi or Communist of the past or the more recent US, Chinese and EU kinds, not to mention the advocates of ultimate empire, the globalists. Having said that, I'd be suspicious that Bannon, unlike say Farage, is just an imperialist of a different colour.

    I think that the response to the accelerating immigration issue is not one of sinister manipulation, but an understandable reaction to a historical existential issue.
     
  15. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    While I'm inclined to "like" the video, it's too disheartening to do so. While I do believe it will all be purged, we need to keep the faith all will come about in God's time.

    I keep a couple unique saints in my personal litany: Pio, John Vianney, PiusXII, JPII; sometimes I bring in Moses & Noah;).

    At the last Bible study for my singles ministry, we talked a bit about these things and persecution of Catholics. I reminded all, among other things to get those Rosaries out.
     
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  16. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Lavender is rampant underground in DC, I strongly suspect. Grace is opening my eyes. I agree about the rosary......as many as possible.
    I love your personal litany:love:
     
  18. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Well worth listening to!
     
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  19. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    An interview with Bishop Schneider some might enjoy, he digs right into the homosexual crisis in the church and canon law.

     
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  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    http://www.publicnow.com/view/9B5F0...03BE7180B54?2019-04-08-14:30:17+01:00-xxx9996

    Sigh, spokesman for the French Bishops quoting St Therese of Liseaux as being homosexualist.

    The mind fairly boggles. St Therese, pro Gay. What next?
    [​IMG]

    Top French Priest: There Is “Something of God Speaking” in LGBTQ Relationships
    Msgr. Olivier Ribadeau-Dumas

    A top Church official in France has said there is 'something of God speaking' in same-gender relationships, and encouraged LGBTQ Catholics to remain in the Church to help it progress towards greater inclusion.

    Monsignor Olivier Ribadeau-Dumas, secretary general and spokesperson of the Bishops' Conference of France, made his affirming comments while speaking to the LGBT Catholic group Becoming One in Christ last October. Riposte Catholique quoted Ribadeau-Dumas as telling the group:

    'I think there is something in every true love relationship that tells us of the love of God, whatever that relationship is. . .I know that if God is love and if two people really love each other then there is something that is inevitably linked to that. . .A love that goes so far as to give one's life for one who loves that love cannot fail to tell us something about God's love for us.'

    Religión Digital reported that the priest also opined about France's 2013 marriage equality law, saying 'something good came out of an evil' because the Church's perception of lesbian and gay people had changed for the better. The report continued:

    'Things are progressing' in the Church as regards respect for homosexuals: 'we just have to give them time,' said the spokesman for the French bishops, adding that he hopes that gays will find more and more acceptance in the hearts of parishes, and not only in specialized pastoral ministries.

    ''I understand how impatient you are, but let's give [the Church] time, it's reassuring, after all, it has progressed and there are more steps forward. In the heart of the Church, be love, love her, and from within, help her to progress towards that love, that recognition, that love', Ribadeau-Dumas encouraged those present at the talk, paraphrasing Saint Teresa of Lisieux.'

    To listen to the audio recordings of Ribadeau-Dumas' talk, click here.

    Monsignor Ribadeau-Dumas is voicing the simple truth that so many Catholics already profess in their words and through their lives: queer relationships most certainly exhibit authentic, abiding love, and where there is such love, there is God.

    Ribadeau-Dumas' approach when discussing same-gender love is not the reductionist lens that equates queer love with genital acts, an approach that has too often been the standard employed by Church leaders. Rather, the priest chooses a holistic lens that elevates the good and focuses on love. And, in doing so, Ribadeau-Dumas and others who adopt such an approach are helping open the Church to hear what God is speaking to us through queer love. So I leave readers with this question: what is God speaking to us through LGBTQ relationships? Leave your thoughts in the 'Comments' section below.

    -Robert Shine, New Ways Ministry, April 8, 2019
     

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