The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

  2. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Cardinal Burke on Viganò testimony: God’s law is higher than the pontifical secret
    Lisa Bourne
    Cardinal Raymond Burke

    November 9, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – God’s law comes before all else, Cardinal Raymond Burke said recently in regard to bombshell testimonies from Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò on mishandling of clergy sexual abuse in the Church up to and including Pope Francis. Because of this, the former U.S. papal nuncio was obligated to come forward with what he knew, the cardinal said.

    “The evils he had denounced are of the most serious nature,” said Cardinal Burke, and if true, then “he was obliged in conscience” to release the information as he did.

    “The law of God in these matters is higher than, for example, the pontifical secret,” Burke said.

    Viganò’s testimonies implicating Pope Francis and other high-level prelates in the Archbishop Theodore McCarrick cover-up have further rocked the Church in its abuse crisis, bringing the problem of homosexual clergy to the forefront. His testimonies have also shone light on the fact the abuse was not limited to minors, as many assume, and that widespread cover-up in the hierarchy fostered the abuse.

    Viganò has taken criticism for the testimonies from some close to the pope, in part under the guise that Viganò violated the code of confidentiality applying to Church matters of significance.

    Some have tried to dispel Viganò’s claims, and also assert the former U.S. apostolic nuncio had personal reasons for publishing the charges against the pope, such as his purportedly not being made a cardinal.

    Burke, in an interview with The Wanderer toward the close of the Youth Synod, vouched for both the content of the testimonies and Viganò’s reason for bringing them forward.

    “We ought to take very seriously all that he has said,” Cardinal Burke stated, as Vigano has said he has evidence to back his claims. “To do otherwise is to be negligent.”

    “I don’t think there’s any doubt” the archbishop did this for the good of the Church, he added.

    The cardinal described Viganò’s as “a person of the greatest integrity,” and pointed out that a number of U.S. bishops have issued statements on Vigano’s behalf.

    Burke also said ad hominem attacks on Viganò were “completely inappropriate.”

    The cardinal, himself a man who has taken criticism for his defense of the Church and her teaching, had called early on for the charges in Viganò’s testimony to be taken seriously and investigated fully.

    “The declarations made by a prelate of the authority of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò must be totally taken to heart by those responsible in the Church,” he said. “Each declaration must be subject to investigation, according to the Church’s time-tried procedural law.”

    “After the truth of each declaration has been established, then the appropriate sanctions must be applied both for the healing of the horrible wounds inflicted upon the Church and her members, and for the reparation of the grave scandal caused,” Burke said.

    Burke touched on a number of other topics in his interview with The Wanderer, including the now two-year-old dubia submitted by him and three other cardinals, two of whom have since passed away, requesting clarification from the pope on ambiguities contained in his controversial document Amoris Laetitia.

    Burke said he was not hopeful the pope would address the five dubia, or doubts, about his papal exhortation. However, this does not change or negate them, he said.

    “At this point it’s highly unlikely that he will respond,” the cardinal said, though “the faithful deserve a response to these important questions.”

    The pope’s lack of a response “doesn’t change the fact that they are real dubia” that concern to “the salvation of souls,” Burke stated, adding, “The dubia remain.”
    Tanker, sunburst, AED and 6 others like this.
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes, I ve thought and prayed abou this myself and I think Cardinal Burke is right here. Although Archbishop Vigano did take a solemn oath to secrecy in these matters he was right to go for disclosure; that he had a higher duty to God and the Truth.

    I don;t envy him having to make the choice, it must have just about killed him, but he did the right thing, no doubt about it.
    I think one good way to judge whether or not Archbishop Vigano was right or not is to judge by the fruits of his action. I think the greatest fruit is that light was shone in dark places.

    Another thing I notice is that very,very few people even his critics hone in on this aspect. They may say he made things up or exagerrated or had his own agenda , I hear very few critics talking about oath breaking.
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    DeGaulle likes this.
  5. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    So very true and it is not hard to see why people are following the 'feel good theology' as it embraces the same path as the world and we know who the 'prince of this world is', right? This to me is the biggest indicator of the "beast system" forming. What is happening in the Church and in the world is not without great influence from the dark world underneath. And, as man chooses sin, God lifts the restrainer of the evil one and it all begins to unfold very rapidly. It almost seems like a race between the church and the world, as to who can conform to the evil one faster. I am not sure who is winning at this point between the two :unsure:
  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Do you know much about Monsignor Pope? His name seems vaguely familiar to me but I admit I was quite ignorant about him until he spoke up. Nevertheless going by the Arroyo interview, it strikes me he is not the kind of man to seek headlines or to court controversy quite the reverse in fact. He is going down this road because he feels forced in conscience to speak up. He laso stirkes me as very,very humble and down to Earth.

    The fact he has beend riven to speak up is a real Sign of the Times. I also noticed him saying several Bishops contacted him to express their support. I belive him; he is not making this up.

    All this ebing so ;we ahve reacehd a very,very critical juncture here. I would say in some ways Monsignor Popes testimony may be right up there with Vigano.
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I only listened to his video yesterday and was impressed by his humility and knowledge of what is going on. What I have read of him, he seems alert to the faith and its issues. It is important to find the few clergy left who one can 'circle their wagons' around. I have to drive about an hour to find orthodox priests in my area, but at least they are still around if you seek them out. Finding anyone around my area, laity or clergy, who is alert to what is happening in the Church is very very hard to find at this point and it will only get harder.
  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    When Msgr Pope was a new priest, he was in my old parish, Mt Calvary Catholic, in the Archdiocese of Washington
    He has spent his whole Priesthood in the Archdiocese to my knowledge
    He holds to orthodox Catholic views and is the author of numerous blogs and articles
    He’s good!
    Tanker, sunburst, Praetorian and 3 others like this.
  9. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    He's the former head of the Dominicans. Do you know anything about the current head of that Order? If the current one is orthodox, this could be Pope Francis sending him a message to get with the homo-heresy programme or risk feeling the axe of mercy.

    At this stage, I don't think anyone should be surprised that Pope Francis has appointed yet another heretic/apostate/atheist to a position of power in the Church. That's all he ever does. Some, mostly those who support the "Catholic Spring" soft sell on abortion and sodomy would have us believe that Pope Francis is a walking saint. Are his actions the work of a saint or are they evidence of what someone in the early Church once called "the first born of Satan"? I certainly see nothing saintly about him. Jesus said something about the faithful recognising the voice of the shepherd. Pope Francis is lauded by atheists, globalists, abortion promoters and "clerical" marriage promoters, not to mention the mega rich and powerful in the entertainment, media and tech fields - all well entrenched enemies of Christ's Church. Are they "the faithful"? At the same time, he bad mouths faithful Catholics every chance he gets. He might do well to remember what Jesus said about those sitting on the seat of Moses and take a good, hard look in the mirror.

    When "clericalism" is the Pope's best response to credible accusations against him and very many of his hand-picked close associates for enabling or covering for sexual predators, it's too much of a stretch for me to pretend that his is the voice of a good shepherd. When one of his most ardent defenders says that the Pope is the master and not the servant of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, I fear that we are straying into False Prophet territory. When a journalist with direct access to the Vatican says that a notorious homosexual Cardinal abuser of both children and seminarians was engaged in clericalism rather than homosexuality, Satan and not Jesus is speaking through that man. When a priest handpicked by the Vatican gives talks at official Catholic gatherings promoting transgenderism, I'm left wondering whether the "whore of Babylon" has taken up residence over the grave of St. Peter.

    Over and over again, I recall the prophecy of St. Francis (the real saint in Heaven) about a man not canonically elected taking St. Peter's seat and acting as a destroyer. And over and over again, that's what I see in Pope Francis. I'm sorry to say this and I beg God's forgiveness if I'm wrong, but we weren't given eyes, ears and reason to let ourselves be deceived by Vatican gimmicks and sycophantic journalists whose livelihood depends on getting the inside story from "friends of the Pope".

    Now, back to the Dominicans. If I see any signs of deviation from the faith, I will avoid them like the plague as I do with the Franciscans. The Carmelite Church was my favourite until I saw on their website that they had Amnesty International giving courses on bullying in their centre - I saw that in the lead up to the abortion referendum when Amnesty were the first off the blocks campaigning for abortion. I have been to Mass in the Carmelite Church since then but only because it was the best option available to me that day. Pity, really, because some of the young African Carmelites come across as being very devout. I hope they won't be bringing Amnesty's doctrines home with them when they return to Africa.

    What the "Jesus ate with sinners" brigade (including Pope Francis) studiously ignore is that Jesus didn't chase after anyone who rejected his message. He let them go, probably broken hearted, but he didn't change the message to make it more appealing to them. The prodigal son's father didn't traipse around behind his son watching him spend his inheritance. There was no fatted calf until the son had repented. Repent was how Jesus opened his proclamation of the kingdom and it is as relevant today as it was then. Telling people that Satan is a Christian invention, that hell is empty or nearly empty, that adultery, sodomy, fornication or abortion are not really sins is a direct contradiction of the message of Jesus. I wonder do those priests realise that they will be judged more harshly than the laity. They surely don't act like they believe they will be judged at all.
  10. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I don't know. The pizzagate stuff was too OTT. While I don't doubt for a minute that rich and powerful people use they money and influence to exploit people, I thought that linking the Podestas to the Madeleine McCann case was ridiculous.

    It just seems to me that the powerful lavender pressure on the Church from outside co-inciding with the lavender lobby taking control inside the Church is too much coincidence to be passed off with comments about "the God of surprises". Satan's fingerprints are all over this.

    Enough from me on this topic. I need to pray more and comment less. I'm still praying for Luke and all on the forum who have asked for prayers although I haven't posted on those threads lately. While I don't doubt that God is hearing my prayers, I have a sinking feeling that the answer I'm getting these days is more on the "no" side than "yes". I'm reminded of my old school reports "could try harder".
    DeGaulle likes this.
  11. padraig

    padraig New Member


    The Master of the Order
    [​IMG]Brother Bruno Cadoré,
    Master of the Dominican Order

    On Sunday, the 5th of September 2010, the General Chapter of the Order of Preacher in Rome elected Bro. Bruno Cadoré as their new Master. He is the 87th Master of the Order, the immediate successor of Bro. Carlos Azpiroz Costa (Argentinean) and the 86th successor of St Dominic. His office is for a nine-year term.

    Bro. Bruno Cadoré was born on the 14th April 1954 in Le Creusot, a town in the Bourgogne region of France, between Lyon and Dijon. He is the son of Henri Cadoré and Jeanine Desmaizières.

    After he graduated as a medical doctor, he spent two years in Haiti. He entered the novitiate of the Dominican Province of France in 1979 and made his first profession on the 28th of September 1980 after which he began his Dominican studies. He was ordained a priest in Lille on the 28th of September 1986 and was immediately made the Master of Students.

    He oversaw the formation of young friars for about 7 years. He has been the prior of the priory in Lille before he was elected the Prior Provincial of the Province of France in 2002. He got reelected for the second term and was about concluding that when he was elected the Master of the Order. During his term of office, the Province of France welcomed many young brothers into the Order. Bro. Bruno Cadoré also worked to develop the Dominican life in the vicariates of the province of France, in Scandinavia, Equatorial Africa and West Africa, as well as in the Arab world, especially in Cairo and Iraq, which he visited frequently.

    In 1992, he received his doctorate in moral theology. As a Doctor of Theology, he taught biomedical ethics at the Catholic University of Lille while directing the centre for medical ethics. He has also been on the National Aids Council of France since January 2008 until 2010.

  12. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    SYNOD on YOUTH: A Rome Journalist Reports
    LifeSite's Rome reporter, Diane Montagna, presents a detailed report (direct from the Eternal City) on what really happened at the Vatican Synod on Youth. Relying on personal interviews of Vatican accredited journalists as well as high-ranking prelates, Miss Montagna offers the most comprehensive behind-the-scenes coverage of the Synod to date. This, by the way, is a Sample Video taken from the Catholic Identity Conference 2018 Video On-Demand subscription service. There are 12 talks altogether, including that of Michael Matt, Roberto de Mattei (also from Rome), Father Pendergraft, Elizabeth Yore, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Chris Ferrara and many more. To watch them all, please subscribe HERE.

  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    We won't know the answers to most of these things until Judgement Day, but while Pizzagate seemed over the top, it bore the same kind of purulence of recent events. While it might be unfair to link the Podestas to poor Madeleine, it is unquestionably most likely that she was a victim of a paedophile in some shape or form and the failure to disclose evidence tends to point to a very organised one (or group).
    Don_D, Mary's child and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

    Excellent, thanks. Diane is from west central PA and has been to the Traditional Latin Mass at my old parish a number of times, so I’ve had the pleasure of sitting around talking with her after Mass at our parish brunch. Very intelligent and spiritual woman.
    sunburst, Praetorian, Mac and 3 others like this.
  15. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Thanks, Padraig, for finding that info about the current head of the Dominicans. I really know next to nothing about them other than the little I have seen in their church in Dublin and I liked what I saw.

    I didn't know that there is a Dominican rite Mass until I watched a few videos about them today. There's a whole series of instructional videos about that Mass on YouTube. I think it was banned or perhaps discouraged by Pope Paul Vl but restrictions (if any) were removed by Pope Benedict. There's also a video on Youtube of the Dominican rite Mass celebrated in the Thomas Aquinas College in the US on the Saint's feast day. It's unlikely we'll ever see that here. It's all in Latin but the priest read the Old Testament and Gospel passages in English before giving the homily, and he used the pulpit. Communion on the tongue and kneeling at altar rails. Poor Pope Francis would probably have apoplexy if he saw that.

    I think the former head of the Order (and possibly the current one) must be fans of Yves Congar. He was a Dominican theologian silenced by Pope Pius X11 but rehabilitated by Pope John X111 and invited to Vatican 11. He seems to have been very much a "spirit of Vatican 11" type, believing that we should be in communion with everyone, believers and non-believers. Maybe Congar is to some Dominicans what Tielhard deChardin is to most Jesuits. Anyway, I reckon that he would be a big hit with the current Pope. Pope John Paul 11 made him a cardinal a few months before he died following a long illness.

    Here's a link to that Mass in the Dominican rite:
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Yes, Madeleine probably was the victim of a paedophile. It's more than possible that little Madeleine was taken out of Portugal the night she was kidnapped, possibly by boat. I imagine that wealthy people pay others to supply the victims.

    The Catholic World Report has a really interesting piece written by Dr. Douglas Farrow, Professor of Theology and Christian Thought at McGill University. Headed "The Conversion of the Papacy and the Present Church Crisis", it's the most in-depth analysis I have read of what Pope Francis is doing to the Church, particularly the Papacy. It's very long and I will need to read it a few times to take it all in but I would be very interested in others' opinions of what he has to say.

    If his analysis is accurate (and he makes a good case although I'm not sure whether I would agree with him on everything) it's very worrying. It's very likely that in the not too distant future the issues he raises will need to be mulled over by all Catholics, even those who have chosen the ostrich solution to the current crisis. I think the article deserves a thread of its own but I'm too tired to start a new thread now. Here's a link:
    DeGaulle and Don_D like this.
  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    As Fr Weinandy put it at the end of his letter to Francis, perhaps our Lord does indeed want “to manifest just how weak is the faith of many within the Church, including many of her bishops. “Ironically,” he adds, “your pontificate has given those who hold harmful theological and pastoral views the license and confidence to come into the light and expose their previously hidden darkness. In recognizing this darkness, the Church will humbly need to renew herself, and so continue to grow in holiness.”
    DeGaulle and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    How will the Church be renewed?

    Not by the the 'Francis reformation' which is shambolic.

    But by believers who will stand with Christ against an evil and pernicious culture, a pagan culture and if necessary shed their blood. The church is always renewed by the blood of martyrs such as our brothers and sisters in the Middle East.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
    Tanker, sunburst, DeGaulle and 2 others like this.
  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The Church will be renewed by women (and men) like Mary Wagner who really love the poor and marginalised and who stand up for the truth. She is a sign of contradiction to the present age.

    The poor policemen look distraught at having to carry out their duties in the face of the obvious goodness of this Christian.

    One day the world will recognise the brilliance of this woman. Her testimony by her actions is truly prophetic.
    Don_D and Immaculata like this.
  20. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    42 Members of the European Parliament nominated Mary Wagner for the 2018 Sakharov Prize given to to individuals and organisations that defend human rights and fundamental freedoms.

    Mary Wagner is a Canadian activist who has been arrested on multiple occasions and accused of “disturbing the business” of an abortion clinic in Toronto. She remained in prison for not complying with a probation order to stay away from abortion clinics. She was nominated by Marek Jurek and 41 other MEPs for her work "safeguarding the rights of those who cannot speak for themselves".

    She didn't win it (that wouldn't be politically correct would it!) but she was in a list of 8 selected for nomination. Well done to Mary!
    Immaculata, Roger Buck, jerry and 2 others like this.

Share This Page