I can't find it. Sorry! And frankly, at this point, I don't feel like entering into a discussion about this topic. I think you understand. If I ever come across it, I will pm you.
A concern for a return to sane and sacred Liturgical and theological practice is NEVER “concern trolling”!!
I question the manner of posting, Brian. Besides which, I think it is a valuable definition, and regardless of how you feel, it may help other members and readers to decide for themselves in regards to posts they may come across here or elsewhere.
Question all you want, but do not ascribe nefarious motives to the posts of a fellow faithful Catholic.
I merely posted a definition. I did not point the finger at any member. I was careful not to do that. You are the one jumping to conclusions. And I cannot pretend to know anyone's motives. Nefarious or not...trolling is also a term used in fishing, which I am sure you realize. It can take on many manifestations, conscious or not. Apparently, you took the bait and now you are focused on me.
Smart. When Catholic history is written, it will show that “Trad Catholics,” even if of the SSPX stripe, were 95% correct, while “Conservative post VII Novus Ordo Catholicism” couldn’t hold a candle to the rugged orthodoxy and Faith of the remnant trads. Catholicism is on a post VII trajectory, from liberal Catholicism to charismatic Catholicism to conservative Catholicism to orthodox Catholicism, to simply Catholic. And history will prove that trad Catholicism is, in the end, simply Catholicism. So the historical trajectory of modern Catholicism is a return to the pre VII Catholicism so many post VII Catholics still bemoan.
I also said that I was finished with discussion of this, at least for the near future. And I have no problem with return to Pre- Vatican II Catholicism. I must clarify that. I would welcome it tomorrow. I also object to some of the labelling of Catholics which is being used now. But I am off of this topic now.
gracia, When my family first went to Rome in 2003 to witness our Benjamin taking his first temporary vows, the priest who had been his novice director took about 70 of us down in the catacombs of St. Callixtus and celebrated the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. It has proven to be one of the most moving Holy Masses I have ever attended. I even had a cross to bear during the Mass: my 5-year-old son at the time, Daniel, had fallen into a deep sleep. My arms ached by the time the hour was up and then I had to carry him up the stairs to ground level (We were 100 ft. down). Safe in the Father's Arms!
Just please be patient. Dealing with a relatively new or insistent “trad Catholic” is similar to dealing with a newly “born again Christian.” For them, nothing else seems important, and it’s all encompassing, to the point that to others, they can seem obsessive or really annoying. I come from being on ALL the sides of this debate, born again, charismatic, conservative/orthodox and pro life, trad, and now, simply, Catholic. So I know how obnoxious I was and don’t have an issue with the (sometimes imprudent) fervor that goes with any of these.
I wish all priests who celebrate the NO Mass would look at the the Masses celebrated on EWTN. They do a beautiful blend of Latin and English.
Yes, Brian, our walks with the Lord as Catholics have many twists and turns. Just when we think we "have arrived", lo and behold, the Holy Spirit points out a new path within the auspices of Mother Church! Such is our need for personal purification and growth. Lead me on, Holy Mary!
I'd have everything returned to pre-1960 in the morning, if it was possible. The difficulty is getting from here to there.
You are singing g my song! That was my journey too. Back to where I started...to paraphrase TS Eliot “...to return to the place you began and to recognize it for the first time...requiring a condition of absolute simplicity...” from his poem Little Gidding—one of my favorites. Simply Catholic. He also quoted Julian of Norwich another quote I love and reassuring in these times as it was when Eliot wrote the poem. “Sin is behovely...but All will be well and all will be well and all manner of thing shall be well...”
