The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    You people are obviously praying some mighty rosaries!
     
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  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    The natives are getting even more restless; in the Netherlands this time:

    https://gloria.tv/article/6iT41xTpiTuXAFuYajgBFAzkG


    [​IMG]


    BREAKING Dutch Catholics Revolt: Bishops Asked To Admonish Francis
    On April 9, prominent Dutch Catholics issued a petition to their bishops against the “destructive polities” of Pope Francis, reports Radio Maria Nederland.

    Intellectuals and priests have signed the petition, among them the famous psychiatrist Gerard Aardweg and retired Professor Wilhelmus Witteman of the Technical University of Twente.

    The petition lists Francis’ major scandals, among them Amoris Laetitia, his support for the pro-death politicians Emma Bonino and Lilianne Ploumen, his initiatives in favour of female deacons, married priests and contraception, his praise for Martin Luther, his attitude towards Islam and his negotiations with the Chinese Communists.

    The petition asks the Dutch bishops to warn Francis in this "moment of confusion and uncertainty" not to commit “serious errors” against the Faith.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Funny old , 'Apology', this,: Pope Francis admits, 'grave errors of judgement', but goes straight on to point the finger straight at unnamed others.

    The question then is why , 'Apologise', if he doesn't think it was really it was his fault in the first place?

    Funny old world.

    [​IMG]



    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-admits-grave-errors-chile-sex-abuse-scandal/

    Pope Francis admits "grave errors" in judgment in Chile sex abuse scandal

    VATICAN CITY -- Pope Francis has admitted he made "grave errors" in judgment in Chile's sex abuse scandal and invited the abuse victims he had discredited to Rome to beg their forgiveness. In an extraordinary letter published Wednesday, Francis also summoned Chile's bishops to the Vatican for an emergency meeting in the coming weeks to discuss the scandal, which has badly tarnished his reputation and that of the Chilean church.

    Francis blamed a lack of "true and balanced information" in his missteps in judging Bishop Juan Barros, a protege of Chile's most notorious predator priest. Francis strongly defended Barros, despite accusations by victims that the Chilean priest witnessed and ignored their abuse.

    Francis sent the Vatican's most respected sex abuse investigator, Archbishop Charles Scicluna, to investigate allegations of sex abuse cover-up by Barros, a protege of the Rev. Fernando Karadima. The Vatican removed Karadima from ministry for sexually abusing minors.

    Scicluna and his colleague, the Rev. Jordi Bertomeu, spent nearly two weeks in Chile and New York earlier this year interviewing Karadima's victims, who for years have denounced Barros' silence and were stunned by Francis' strong defense of him during his January visit to Chile.

    Many of Chile's bishops, and members of Francis' own sex abuse advisory board, had questioned Barros' suitability to lead a diocese given claims by Karadima's victims that Barros stood by and did nothing while Karadima groped them.

    While the pope's letter doesn't reveal Scicluna's conclusions, Francis made clear the bishops needed to "repair the scandal where possible and re-establish justice."



     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yay! About time
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Have a look at some of the comments; they wold turn your hair white.:eek::eek::eek:

    Joseph a' Christian 6 hours ago
    The Dutch are not in revolt, they are shinning light on a cockroach who is spreading disease and death.
    Jesus Is True Freedom
     
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  6. DeGaulle likes this.
  7. We attended a healing Mass last night and many people were in attendance, even young people. I would compare the attendance to be double that of other years. The poor Irish born priest had hours of work cut out for him praying over each person. We are so blessed by the many Irish born priests that have labored in this part of the vineyard. May God bless them for their sacrifices of being away from their country and families to bring Christ to us.
     
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  8. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    This is another insight on the Pope's new exhortation. I hadn't realized until I read this article that the Pope also made some good remarks about prayer and meditation on the word of God, etc.
    in addition to the not so good comments about these things. I also want to mention that there are some very "heated" comments that were made on this article that you may want to peruse.


    Pope Francis Issues Lengthy Apostolic Exhortation on Universal Call to Holiness
    In Gaudete et Exsultate, the Holy Father offers guidance on the many paths to sanctity in today’s world.
    Edward Pentin Apr. 9, 2018 http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...postolic-letter-on-universal-call-to-holiness

    Pope Francis has issued a long apostolic exhortation on holiness in today’s world, in which he emphasizes the universal call to sanctity, highlights the pitfalls to achieving it, and recalls that the Christian life is one of constant battle against the devil and the forces of evil.

    Running at just over 22,000 words, Gaudete et Exsultate (Rejoice and Be Glad) — The Call to Holiness in Today’s World — contains many themes the Holy Father has repeated over the past five years: an emphasis on the importance of discernment, warnings against Gnosticism and neo-Pelagianism, rigidity, doing things as they have always been done, an excessive emphasis on doctrine, and gossip.

    He quotes the late Jesuit Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini and the Swiss theologian Hans Urs Von Balthasar in the text, but also draws on the example of many saints, including St. Bonaventure, St. Francis of Assisi and St. Anthony of Padua, and singles out women saints such as St. Hildegard of Bingen, St Bridget and St. Catherine of Siena.

    The document is rich in guidance on how to answer the call to holiness in a world filled with distractions, consumerism and hedonism. Frequently, the Pope stresses the importance of prayer and worship, but gives greater emphasis to acts of love and mercy toward one’s neighbor, especially the poor and those on the periphery.

    In one particularly notable section, the Pope stresses that “equally sacred” to defending the lives of the unborn are the lives of the poor, the elderly exposed to “covert euthanasia” and those facing “every form of rejection.”

    As with every apostolic exhortation or letter, the document begins with its title: “Rejoice and be glad” — Jesus’ words to those persecuted or humiliated for his sake.

    “The Lord asks everything of us, and in return he offers us true life, the happiness for which we were created,” the Pope begins. “He wants us to be saints and not to settle for a bland and mediocre existence,” and he reminds the faithful that the call to holiness “is present in various ways from the very first pages of the Bible.”

    In light of this, the Pope says his “modest goal” is to “re-propose the call to holiness in a practical way for our own time, with all its risks, challenges and opportunities. For the Lord has chosen each one of us ‘to be holy and blameless before him in love.’”

    The first chapter outlines the essence of the call to holiness. The Pope stresses that the Holy Spirit “bestows holiness in abundance among God’s holy and faithful people,” not just the beatified, canonized, prelates, clergy or religious, but the “saints next door” — “the middle class of holiness.” Often, he says, holiness is shown through patience, such as parents who raise their children “with immense love” or “work hard” to support their families.

    Besides making the point that holiness exists “even outside the Catholic Church,” he says that each believer has to “discern” his or her own path to sanctity and that St. John of the Cross “preferred to avoid hard and fast rules for all.” He also stresses the “genius of woman” seen in “feminine styles of holiness,” witnessed especially in times of history when “women tended to be most ignored or overlooked” and whose sanctity led to “important reforms” in the Church.

    Holiness is not restricted to those who “spend much time in prayer,” he goes on, and argues that it is “not healthy to love silence while fleeing interaction with others, to want peace and quiet while avoiding activity, to seek prayer while disdaining service.”

    Instead, the Pope stresses that the call to holiness can also be answered through “small gestures,” such as refusal to succumb to the temptation to gossip. “Holiness is nothing other than charity lived to the full,” he adds, and “giving your best” in committing yourself “body and soul.”

    continued...
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  9. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    continued from above...

    Distractions and Gadgets


    He notes the constant distractions of “new gadgets,” travel and consumerism, asking how we can “stop this rat race” and recover the personals space for “heartfelt dialogue with God.” Quoting Cardinal Martini, he says finding that space may not happen unless “we see ourselves staring into the abyss of a frightful temptation, or have the dizzying sensation of standing on the precipice of utter despair, or find ourselves completely alone and abandoned.”

    As he has said before, the Pope calls on the faithful not to be “afraid of holiness” and adds that “to the extent that each Christian grows in holiness, he or she will bear greater fruit for our world.”

    He highlights two “subtle enemies” of sanctity — gnosticism and pelagianism. Although the Pope says Placuit Deo, a document on the subject by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued in February, provides the “doctrinal bases” for these heresies, he broadens the definitions considerably, saying gnostics today “judge others based on their ability to understand the complexity of certain doctrines.” They also “reduce Jesus’ teaching to a cold and harsh logic that seeks to dominate everything.”

    “When somebody has an answer for every question, it is a sign that they are not on the right road,” he says. “They may well be false prophets, who use religion for their own purposes, to promote their own psychological or intellectual theories.” He also warns against believing that knowledge of doctrine makes one “perfect and better than the ‘ignorant masses.’”

    On contemporary pelagianism, the Pope warns against telling the weak that “all things can be accomplished with God’s grace” while giving the idea that “all things are possible by the human will” and failing to realize “that ‘not everyone can do everything.’” The “new pelagians,” he continues, have an “obsession with the law,” a “punctilious concern for the Church’s liturgy, doctrine and prestige,” and “give excessive importance to certain rules,” rather than wishing to spread the “beauty and joy of the Gospel and seeking out the lost.”

    “May the Lord set the Church free from these new forms of gnosticism and pelagianism that weigh her down and block her progress along the path to holiness!” he says.

    In Chapter 3, the Pope recalls Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount in showing the way towards holiness. In a sub-chapter entitled “Going Against the Flow,” he lists each of the beatitudes, highlighting that holiness is manifested in being poor of heart, meekness and humility, knowing how to mourn with others, yearning for righteousness, keeping a heart free of all that tarnishes love, sowing peace, and accepting the path of slander and lies — the modern persecution of today.

    In a further subchapter called “The Great Criterion,” the Pope underlines the importance of imitating the Good Samaritan, but warns against ideologies such as those which view some social-justice work “as superficial, worldly, secular, materialist, communist or populist.”

    “Our defense of the innocent unborn, for example, needs to be clear, firm and passionate,” he says. “Equally sacred, however, are the lives of the poor, those already born, the destitute, the abandoned and the underprivileged, the vulnerable infirm and elderly exposed to covert euthanasia, the victims of human trafficking, new forms of slavery, and every form of rejection.”

    He also criticizes some Catholics who often view the situation of migrants as “a secondary issue” compared to “the ‘grave’ bioethical questions,” and he cites scriptural references underlining the importance of welcoming the stranger.

    Again, the Pope stresses the importance of acts of mercy, saying that although “primacy belongs to our relationship with God,” one should not “forget that the ultimate criterion on which our lives will be judged is what we have done for others.”

    Dangers of Hedonism and Consumerism

    He also warns against “hedonism and consumerism,” which “can prove our downfall” and lead to our being “too concerned about ourselves and our rights.” The answer, he says, is to “cultivate a certain simplicity of life, resisting the feverish demands of a consumer society.”

    He lists five “great expressions” of love for God and neighbor that will make us “genuinely happy” as perseverance, patience and meekness; joy and a sense of humor; boldness and passion; being in community; and constant prayer.

    The last chapter is given to spiritual combat, and he reminds the faithful that the Christian life “is a constant battle,” but adds that this battle “is sweet, for it allows us to rejoice each time the Lord triumphs in our lives.” He also stresses that this battle is not just against “the world and a worldly mentality” or “human weakness,” but “a constant struggle against the devil.”

    The devil is not “a myth,” he says, adding that he “does not need to possess us,” but simply “poisons us with the venom of hatred, desolation, envy and vice.” Those who fail to realize it is a constant battle “will be prey to failure or mediocrity,” he adds, stressing that the Lord has given us “powerful weapons” to fight the devil such as “faith-filled prayer, meditation on the word of God, the celebration of Mass, Eucharistic adoration, sacramental reconciliation, works of charity, community life, missionary outreach.”

    He goes on to warn against “spiritual corruption,” which he describes as a “comfortable and self-satisfied form of blindness” where all appears acceptable: “deception, slander, egotism and other subtle forms of self-centredness, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”

    Pope Francis ends by returning to his common theme of discernment, which he says is “something more than intelligence or common sense.” It is a gift, he says, which we must implore and seek to develop through prayer, reflection, reading and good counsel.

    “Discernment is necessary not only at extraordinary times,” he says, adding that only if we are prepared to listen do we have the freedom to set aside our own partial or insufficient ideas, our usual habits and ways of seeing things.


    “Naturally, this attitude of listening entails obedience to the Gospel,” he says, but it is “not a matter of applying rules or repeating what was done in the past, since the same solutions are not valid in all circumstances and what was useful in one context may not prove so in another.”

    “The discernment of spirits liberates us from rigidity, which has no place before the perennial “today” of the Risen Lord,” the Pope says.

    The Pope closes the document, released on the Solemnity of the Annunciation, which was transferred to today due to Palm Sunday, by asking that these reflections “be crowned by Mary, because she lived the beatitudes of Jesus as none other” and because she “teaches us the way of holiness and she walks ever at our side.”
     
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  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Has he apologised to the ones he condemned, with papal authority in front of the whole world, as being guilty of 'calumny'?

    Does Pope Francis not consider there might be an onus on himself to effect some repairs? Perhaps he might begin by restoring the carefully crafted policy of the Pope Emeritus for dealing with perverted priests.

    [Sorry, HH, just added a bit extra!]
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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  11. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    One can only hope and pray.
     
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  13. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Thank you for posting this link Carol. I am going to try to make my way through it this weekend. I feel inclined to at least try to better understand Pope Francis's teaching even if I do not agree with him in some things.
     
  14. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    One thing which struck me regarding this statement on Hell; it came right on the coat tails of the doctored letter fiasco which then in turn has not seen the light of day since and in fact I think most people found to be very damning. In fact after this hubris which was addressed in the World Over Papal Posse round table it was brought up that this statement was not in line at all with what Pope Francis has written in many different documents and Homilies regarding the topic of Hell or Satan.
    Then directly afterward we see the present Exhortation as well as apology toward the sexual abuse statements he made.
    Mission accomplished I would say.
     
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  15. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://onepeterfive.com/its-time-for-catholics-to-face-the-truth-about-the-papal-confusion/


    It’s Time for Catholics to Face the Truth About the Papal Confusion

    Steve Skojec April 13, 2018 2 Comments


    Although the number of Catholics vocal about their concerns with the pontificate of Pope Francis has grown in recent months, a strange phenomenon nevertheless continues to assert itself: a kind of cognitive dissonance in which the faithful seek to find any explanation, no matter how far-fetched, to reassure themselves that what is happening can’t really be as troubling as it seems.

    As an example of this, see John Clark’s April 10 blog post at the National Catholic Register, where he tackles the question of Pope Francis’s thoughts on the existence of Hell, taken from the now-infamous conversation with Eugenio Scalfari, the nonegenarian atheist founder of Italy’s La Repubblica.

    If you want to know Clark’s position on the matter, look no further than the headline: “Pope Francis Says: ‘Convert, So You Don’t End Up in Hell’.

    For regular readers here, it may seem hard to believe this kind of thing is still happening. But for many faithful, Mass-going Catholics with a (typically healthy) instinct to defend the papacy, coming to grips with the fact that the source of confusion around this papacy is the pope himself can be a difficult pill to swallow.

    Clark gives a brief recap of the events that happened at the end of last month, which for the sake of space I won’t reiterate here. He goes on to state, as any good Catholic would, the de fide teaching on the reality of Hell’s existence. But then Clark reaches for a conclusion that is well-intentioned but, I’m afraid to say, more than a little naive. And by that I mean that as a method of contradiction, he focuses on those things Francis has said which apparently demonstrate his orthodox belief. Clark argues that “these are actual quotes, which are weightier than, say, made-up stuff.”

    “Despite all of this confusion,” writes Clark, “one should note for the record that Pope Francis has hardly been shy about discussing Hell.” He continues:

    In a morning meditation Nov. 22, 2017, for instance, when confronted with the idea that the talk of Hell might frighten people, Pope Francis said: “It is the truth. Because if you… always live far away from the Lord, perhaps there is the danger, the danger of continuing in this way, far away from the Lord for eternity.” Beyond that, he has specifically warned members of the mafia, “Convert, there is still time, so that you don’t end up in hell. That is what awaits you if you continue on this path.” Of course, these are actual quotes, which are weightier than, say, made-up stuff.

    Clark goes on to take the rather predictable approach of impugning the journalistic standards of Mr. Scalfari, going so far as to say, “Scalfari is a journalist in the same sense that I am an astronaut” because Clark watched the film Apollo 13 decades ago.

    But this really isn’t fair. Not to Scalfari, not to the pope, and not to the rest of us, who are apparently being played by the Vatican for a bunch of patsies.

    As I detailed in my own March 29 column on the topic, it’s pretty clear that games are being played with the truth — and that Scalfari, Pope Francis, and the Vatican PR team are each acting out their designated roles. When these controversial “interviews” come out, they do so each and every time under the cover of “unreliable journalistic practices” — Scalfari doesn’t record his conversations or take notes, but reconstructs them from memory. And yet they are never walked back with a direct refutation or correction from the Holy See Press Office or the Pope Himself. What we are left with, then, is both the impression that the pope has said something deeply controversial and erroneous, but also the impression that the Vatican said he didn’t. The fact that these are both impressions and not facts is part of the game — a game that leaves the global media free to report what the pope is alleged to be saying as gospel — and this leaves the faithful very uncertain about what to believe.

    Clark’s approach to this issue seeks to reassure these confused Catholics, and that is a commendable desire. The problem with the pope-as-victim-of-shoddy-journalism narrative is that his chats with Scalfari are prolific, and they continue no matter the fallout. By my count, the pope has had these conversations — or at least parts of them — published on at least eight different occasions, and in almost every case, something controversial has come out of it. Here’s my list of those occasions. Feel free to double-check my work:

    1. October, 2013

    2. July, 2014

    3. October, 2014

    4. March, 2015

    5. October, 2015

    6. November, 2016

    7. July, 2017

    8. March, 2018


    Con’t
     
  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Con’t

    If the pope has a problem with how Scalfari represents him, this pattern should have stopped repeating a long time ago. And it would be good to remember that we’ve been told he is aware of what is transpiring. As Fr. Frederico Lombardi, the previous spokesman for the Holy See, told us back when that first controversial Scalfari interview dropped in 2013:

    Pressed by reporters on the reliability of the direct quotations, Lombardi said during an Oct. 2 briefing that the text accurately captured the “sense” of what the pope had said, and that if Francis felt his thought had been “gravely misrepresented,” he would have said so.

    On the question of Hell, Pope Francis and Scalfari have discussed it on at least three previous occasions dating back to 2015, and each time the pope’s thoughts on the matter have been represented along these same lines: the souls of the just will go to contemplation of God, but the souls of those we think of as damned will simply be annihilated.

    It’s also noteworthy that the late Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, who was pivotal through his leadership of the so-called “St. Gallen Mafia” in bringing Bergoglio to papal power, wrote something similar not long before he died:

    “I nourish the hope that sooner or later everyone will be redeemed. I am a great optimist…. My hope is that God welcomes everyone, that He is merciful, and becomes ever stronger. On the other hand, naturally, I cannot imagine how people like Hitler or an assassin who abused children can be close to God. It seems easier for me to think that these sort of people are simply annihilated…”

    This is a real current in the theological circles Pope Francis travels in. And it’s time that mature Catholics stopped discounting the possibility out of hand that he might believe it, and instead look at the preponderance of evidence that it may very well be true.

    Clark’s strongest argument is that Pope Francis has made very clear statements about Hell in other circumstances. This is, for most people, the real head-scratcher. But this is because for most people, obvious self-contradiction is an absurdity. It is here that I would direct the reader’s attention to the section in Catholic historian Henry Sire’s new book, The Dictator Pope, that discusses Peronism as the formative influence for a young Jorge Bergoglio. Juan Perón, Sire relates, was a master of saying one thing to one audience and something completely contrary to another – always telling everyone what they wanted to hear with no concern whatsoever for the integrity of his own position, only the consolidation of his influence:

    The story is told that Perón, in his days of glory, once proposed to induct a nephew in the mysteries of politics. He first brought the young man with him when he received a deputation of communists; after hearing their views, he told them, “You’re quite right.” The next day he received a deputation of fascists and replied again to their arguments, “You’re quite right.” Then he asked his nephew what he thought and the young man said, “You’ve spoken with two groups with diametrically opposite opinions and you told them both that you agreed with them. This is completely unacceptable.” Perón replied, “You’re quite right too.” An anecdote like this is an illustration of why no-one can be expected to assess Pope Francis unless he understands the tradition of Argentinian politics, a phenomenon outside the rest of the world’s experience; the Church has been taken by surprise by Francis because it has not had the key to him: he is Juan Perón in ecclesiastical translation. Those who seek to interpret him otherwise are missing the only relevant criterion.

    The desire to defend the pope is an understandable and even praiseworthy characteristic in any Catholic. But Jesus is, as He told us, “The Way, the Truth, and the Life.” We must not put our papist instincts, no matter how noble, above the service of that Truth. The impulse to explain away troubling events in the hope of securing peace of mind is a luxury the present crisis does not afford us.
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Excellent
     
  18. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    There is no other interpretation!
     
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  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The potential effects upon the Church may be gleaned by observing the catastrophic consequences of Peronism for Argentina, once one of the most prosperous and devout countries in the world.
     
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  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    An interesting incident occurred outside Church today which has me very much thinking.

    On my way in I met a mother and her two daughters. She was very fashionably dressed and well groomed. Her and her daughters were smiling at me as I tied the two dogs up at the bushes outside ,were I leave them both during the Tridentine Mass.

    The priest, a local country PP preached on the Popes latest Encyclical; “Gaudete et Exsultate” (Latin for “Rejoice and Be Glad”).

    On the whole this should have been a document very much after my own heart. But there were...well blemishes in it which I will not go onto here. But well I just find a lot of it very troubling.

    Well anyway the holy and venerable Father praised the document and went into it, making me feel a little guilty as I have considerable misgivings about much of it. Very,very considerable misgivings indeed.

    So mass ended and I left. The priest was greeting the people outside and the young woman with her two daughters was giving off to the priest in a loud voice with a little crowd around them.

    She was giving him a peace of her mind about Pope Francis , in no uncertain terms and the way he had supported him in his homily. I listened; how could I not..she was so loud and firm!!

    I have a total horror of scenes. I would really die than stand out or be embarrassed. Listening to her I just wanted to run away and hide. I hate such things. But as I listened to her I realisied I agreed with everything she was saying I found myself nodding in agreement. ..and so my feelings changed ..I started even to admire her courage and knowledge and strength.

    Then suddenly my conscience pricked me; for she was doing what I should have been doing ; what I should have been saying!! May God forgive me.

    I will do much better in future by the grace of God. I must get a fire in my belly and go for it. That young woman taught me so much about courage.

    So as untied the dogs I saw her and walked to her and told her she was quite right, that Pope Francis was indeed a very,very bad man...

    ..and he is. I hope to do my best in future to imitate that wonderful woman and to do as she did.

     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018

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