The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    This will be my last post on this issue. Of course this is exactly where we are headed or at. Fatima is right, we have to double down on our prayers,
    WND EXCLUSIVE
    CHRISTIANS ASKING IS THE POPE STILL CATHOLIC?
    Preaches universalism: 'Everything will be saved. Everything'
    Published: 4 days ago

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    Pope Francis

    Is the pope Catholic?

    It’s not a punch line.

    It’s a question being asked about the current head of the Roman Catholic Church, Francis, who critics believe is showing signs of abandoning fundamental Catholic doctrines – including the existence of hell.

    In a recent address, Pope Francis declared “everything will be saved”upon Christ’s return.

    “The thought that at the end of our history there will be merciful Jesus suffices in order to have faith and not to curse life,” the pope said. “Everything will be saved. Everything.”

    That would suggest the church is opening up to “universalism,” the doctrine that everyone will ultimately be given salvation, according to Eugenio Scalfari, founder of the Italian newspaper la Repubblica.

    Scalfari, a major Italian journalistic and cultural influence, believes Francis has “abolished the places where souls were supposed to go after death: hell, purgatory, heaven.”

    Instead, the souls dominated by evil will “cease to exist.” The pope has also been accused of even warping the words of Scripture to make God appear less judgmental.

    Father Thomas Weinandy, a member of the Vatican’s International Theological Commission, accused Francis of presiding over “a chronic confusion” in a letter.

    The former chief of staff for the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine said the pope had demeaned the importance of doctrine and undermined church unity. Weinandy was asked to resign from his position not long after sending the letter.

    The pope’s reign has long been marked by attacks on conservatives both within the church and the larger Christian community. Many Christian leaders are becoming fed up.

    “This man has turned the papacy into a social justice organization that seems far more concerned with global warming and poverty than the proclamation of the gospel,” said Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministries.

    “Catholics should be very concerned. Pope Francis is a type of the false prophet who will reign with the antichrist. I am not saying he is the false prophet, but he has characteristics that would suggest a man just like him could step into that role. If I were a Catholic, I would be looking either for another pope or another faith such as Protestantism. Heaven and hell represent eternal issues that are sacred and no human being should be trying to alter them.”

    A remarkable story about finding God’s light in a time of darkness. Don’t miss this testimony of faith amid the Holocaust. “Trapped In Hitler’s Hell” is now available as a book or documentary in the WND Superstore.

    “From a biblical perspective, there never has been a purgatory, so that is a strictly Catholic issue,” said Joseph Farah, author of “The Restitution of All Things: Israel, Christians and the End of the Age.” “Unfortunately, what the pope said about heaven and hell sounds a lot like universalism. That’s the conclusion most would derive from his statement, ‘At the end of our history there is the merciful Jesus. … everything will be saved. Everything.’ Though he suggested there is a hell for ‘cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort.’ It’s a little confusing – and ambiguous. This is why the unchanging Word of God in the Bible needs to be our one true guide.”

    It’s the book that gives you tomorrow’s news today! Get your autographed copy of “The Restitution of All Things: Israel, Christians and the End of the Age.”

    What the Bible actually says may be surprising to many Christians, says Joe Kovacs, author of “Shocked By The Bible 2.” Even if it is true Pope Francis is changing certain Catholic doctrines, many of those doctrines are built upon a misreading of Scripture, he believes.

    “The so-called essential Christian doctrines on what happens after someone dies have been greatly misunderstood and taught with astonishing errors for thousands of years now, simply because people are ignoring what the Bible actually states,” he said.

    “First of all, the word ‘purgatory’ is nowhere in Scripture, and neither is the concept. People don’t have ‘immortal souls’ that go somewhere else when we die. You won’t even find the phrase ‘immortal soul’ anywhere in Scripture, because we are mortal beings who will be resurrected from the dead at the future return of Jesus. The Bible does not teach that Christians are immediately floating on clouds in heaven once they die on Earth. That belief comes from the original lie of the devil thousands of years ago.

    “Fake news began in the garden of Eden when Satan, the master of deception, told Eve she wouldn’t die if she disobeyed God. And to this day, millions of people cling to this nefarious lie that we don’t really die when we physically die. They forget that Jesus said in John 3:13 that no one has ever gone to heaven except Himself. God has set before us two simple choices: the ways of life – that’s everlasting life – and the ways of death. We’re commanded to choose life. If we don’t choose life, the only other option is death, and that’s an eternal death, not everlasting existence in a never-ending fire.”

    Kovacs also says the debate over doctrine risks concealing what the Bible actually says about the eternal fate of sinners. While there is no universal salvation, Kovacs argues the Bible has a message that may be startling to many Christians.

    “If people absolutely refuse to repent of their sins, the Bible does talk about destruction in a lake of fire that causes the second death,” he said. “This is the final, permanent death from which there is no further resurrection. It is complete annihilation from existence as people will be incinerated into dust and ashes.

    “People are rarely taught clear verses from Scripture indicating this, such as the fourth chapter of the Book of Malachi, where God says ‘the arrogant and the wicked will be burned up like straw. They will be consumed — roots, branches, and all. … Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act’ (Malachi 4:1-3). There is no eternal suffering taking place for millions upon billions upon trillions of years. That’s simply a myth.”

    Like Farah, Kovacs urges Christians to turn to the Good News contained within the Bible rather than trusting in temporal leaders.

    “If Bible readers connect the relevant dots in Scripture, there is very good news about a series of resurrections to take place in the future,” he said. “The First Resurrection takes place when Jesus comes back, and that’s for the true believers when they’re granted eternal life. Then, in the 20th chapter of Revelation, we see that a thousand years after Jesus returns, ‘the rest of the dead’ are restored to life in the Second Resurrection. Why don’t Christians ever talk about this? Because they’ve been tricked for all these years, as the devil doesn’t want people to know there’s still another chance to get with the divine program to become the literal sons and daughters of God.

    “The sinful people raised to temporary life in the Second Resurrection will be judged – meaning they’ll be taught, coached, examined and evaluated – so they can have a shot at everlasting life as well, since God does not want anyone to perish. However, if people continue their rebellion against their Maker, Revelation 21:8 says ‘the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars’ will be tossed into the lake of fire, causing the second death as they are incinerated into ashes.'”
     
  2. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Maybe some here will find the following article from 2014 to be helpful. I have never seen it before but it is discussing things that are still quite relevant,

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...red-pope-simply-call-me-father-benedict-49952

    The request of a retired pope – simply call me 'Father Benedict'
    By
    Elise Harris
    Vatican City, Dec 9, 2014 / 01:08 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Rather than being called by his papal name “Benedict XVI,” the retired pontiff revealed that since his retirement he has wanted to return to his original priestly title and be called simply “Father Benedict.”

    Father Benedict made his comments in a private conversation with journalist Jorg Bremer, who published bits of them in a Dec. 7 article for German newspaper F.A.Z.

    According to the journalist, Benedict explained that when he initially stepped down he wanted to be called “Father Benedict” rather than Pope Emeritus or Benedict XVI, but “I was too weak at that point to enforce it.”

    At least part of the reason for wanting his new title to simply be “Father” rather than Pope Emeritus or Benedict XVI is to put more space between him and the role of the pope, so that there is no confusion as to who the “true Pope” is, Bremer reported.

    The retired pontiff encouraged the journalist to write about his desire, saying “Yes, do that; that would help.”

    In their conversation Benedict also spoke of his current relationship with Pope Francis, saying that “we maintain good contact (with each other).”

    “Francis has a strong presence. Much stronger that I could ever have with my physical and mental weaknesses,” he observed. “To remain in my office would not have been honest.”

    In his comments the former pontiff also touched on a new volume of his collected works that was released in German with an updated version of a 1972 essay, which no longer suggests that the divorced and remarried can receive Communion, as it once did.

    He referred to how some have suggested that by publishing the revisions now he was seeking to take an active role in debate surrounding the topic after this year’s extraordinary synod of bishops on the family.

    It is “utter nonsense” that his revisions to the essay were made in order to seek a platform in the post-synod conversation, Benedict explained.

    Rather than being outspoken, Benedict said that “I try to be as quiet as I can” about these things.

    Benedict XVI noted how he had originally made the revisions in August, two months before the synod began, and that there is “nothing new” it what was recently published.

    He also clarified that he has “always taken the position” that it is “impossible” for those who are divorced and remarried to receive the Eucharist. “As prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith I've written even more drastically,” he noted.

    Divorced and remarried Catholics, he said, need to “feel love of the Church” and should “not be burdened with more than they already have to deal with.”

    PS- I just realized that earthtoangels posted the following article awhile back, http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...-i-do-not-agree-with-the-title-pope-emeritus/
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    God bless him, the Holy Spirit led him in this. The whole notion of , 'Emeritus Pope', and dressing up as a Pope was a very,very,bad idea from the start.

    But then again he should never have resigned in the first place. Anyone who doubts this should just take a look around them.

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  4. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Padraig, Wow, that is some photo.

    It's odd that I came across that old article today while doing a search.

    I do believe that what we see happening is all part of God's plan though, it's amazing.
     
    Mary's child likes this.
  5. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I think a little itty bitty photo shop Carol:D
     
  6. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: way too funny Padraig.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  7. AED

    AED Powers

    Just too sad and horrified to even comment on WND.

    Squeezing in another Rosary tonight!! At my Hour of Adoration today I was praying the psalms but I found myself saying over and over with every line of those beautiful psalms: “dear Savior I beg you rescue and restore Your Bride!” I just kept praying it. Over and over. A little strange but I couldn’t get away from it. I decided it must be the Holy Spirit.
     
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  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thanks for this article Carol. I do not in any way wish to disparage Father Benedict, but it would seem to me that if he wanted to distance himself from the Papacy then perhaps Father Ratzinger would have been a better choice of title.
     
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  9. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Exactly.
    Pope Benedict XVI is definitely a very intelligent man, and I believe he wouldn't have made such an error.
    There is more to it than meets the eye.
     
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  10. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    :D
    Actually,when I saw the photo, I wondered why the portion of sky where the lightning emerged from reminded me so much of our Lady of Guadalupe.
    The colours are similar. Just look at Carol's profile pic for comparison.
     
    Carol55 likes this.
  11. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Signs of hope?

    Catholic leaders and scientists urge reform after Vatican hosts population control advocates
    Catholic , Pontifical Academy Of Sciences , Pontifical Academy Of Social Sciences , Vatican

    ROME, November 20, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – A group of prominent scientists and lay Catholic leaders is calling on the Holy See to reform its administration of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (PAS) and the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences (PASS), denouncing the influence that population control advocates are having at those Academies’ events.

    In a 12-page statement issued today, the signers detail how many prominent organizers and speakers at Academy conferences have a consistent record of advocating for methods of population control, including abortion, contraception and sterilization, in direct contravention of clear Catholic moral teaching.

    “At the very heart of the matter is that the academies are being misused by major proponents of population control seeking to gain the Church’s moral authority for their programs,” said Michael Hichborn, president of the Lepanto Institute, one of the statement’s authors. “Our hope in publishing this statement is to seek meaningful reforms so the academies can fulfill their original mandates without the danger of being manipulated for political purposes.”

    Other signers of the letter include: ecologist Dr. Glenn Juday; Jay H. Lehr, PhD, senior scientist at AR Environmental Services Inc. and Science Director at The Heartland Institute; William M. Briggs, PhD, Professor at the Cornell Medical School and Meteorologist with the National Weather Service; Harold H. Doiron, PhD, Retired NASA Scientist; John-Henry Westen, editor-in-chief and co-founder, LifeSiteNews.com; Judie Brown, President of American Life League; and Steven Mosher, President of Population Research Institute.

    “The Pontifical Academies, in their focus on issues of global environmental challenges and human development, have been importing secularist values, perspectives, and philosophies into their documents and statements,” the statement says, “making it appear as if the Church was morally uncertain and is holding open different views on core teachings at the heart of Gospel teaching on matters of grave importance.”

    “The Church cannot accept, especially implicitly, that humanity can contracept and abort its way to a healthy environment, economy, or society.”


    Allowing the Academies to continue as is would be “disastrous,” they argue. “Because of the gravely serious nature of the problems identified herein, the reality is that leaving these issues unaddressed could be disastrous; human lives, and more importantly, immortal souls, are at great risk.”

    The groups says a “prominent theme” found in the works of experts consulted by the Pontifical Academies has been “a consistent, even zealous, tendency to identify “excessive” human population as the fundamental cause of environmental problems,” and these ideologies are ultimately reflected in some Academy documents.

    “Yet the leadership of the Pontifical Academies consistently engages in selective invitation of experts who are leading advocates of morally problematic approaches, and provides a privileged forum for their views, which inevitably carries an implied endorsement by the Church,” they say. “This pattern confuses Catholic lay faithful and those who observe the Church from the outside, and needs to be reformed before a virtual counter magisterium is set up under the sponsorship the Church Herself.”


    The current Pontifical Academy of Sciences (established in 1936) and Pontifical Academy of Social Science (established in 1994) are advisory groups tasked with providing experiential findings to the Church without regard to the religious background (or lack thereof) of its members. Expertise in religion, philosophy, or theology is not a criterion for appointment to the academies, and these subjects are not particular competencies of their work.

    LifeSiteNews has reported extensively on the troubling associations between the PAS, the PASS and advocates of population control, abortion and contraception.

    The statement proposes five solutions for a reform of the two Pontifical Academies:

    1. re-establish the proper relationship between science and the religious mission of the Church;
    2. regain trust with Catholic scholars by opening the dialogue to the full range of perspectives on environmental problems, particularly policies and solutions;
    3. reform the standards for selection of scholars participating in Academy events so that notorious advocates against the Church’s moral teachings are not provided a platform;
    4. focus the Academies on developing a better understanding of empirical information on the current, actual state of human demographic trends rather than the alarmist assumptions of past decades; and
    5. reform the management of the Pontifical Academies.
    “The Church has great respect for the integrity of the scientific method,” said ecologist Dr. Glenn Juday, who co-authored the statement with Hichborn. “Resolving the serious environmental and human development problems that confront the world requires both the insights of science and moral and ethical guidance.”

    “The Church needs to reform her administration of the Pontifical Academies of Science and Social Sciences so that ethical shortcuts are clearly rejected, and the value and dignity of innocent human life is upheld,” Juday continued. “The proper conduct of science and the religious mission of the Church should be harmonious.”

    The full statement and list of signatories is available here.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...ts-urge-reform-after-vatican-hosts-population
     
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  12. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Praetorian and SgCatholic,

    I think that it is a difficult situation, one that has not occurred very often in the history of the Church. It is possible that Father Benedict ;) tried his best to continue to honor the position he held, the name he chose and the people he served but he wanted to be certain to show that he was no longer the Pope.

    I still believe that the lightning struck for a reason but not because he is still the Pope or should be the Pope, etc. but because of the times that we have entered.:(

    But it's God's plan and it appears that The Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary may have begun already!:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The lightning strike may have been directed for the attention of 'the wolves'.
     
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  14. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    I think it may all tie into this philosophy of "absolute immanence"

    The actual content of the doctrine of absolute immanence
    As it is nowadays presented, the doctrine of absolute immanence is the resultant of the two great currents of contemporary thought. Kant, reducing everything to the individual consciousness, and declaring all metaphysical investigation to be illusory, locks the human soul in its own immanence and condemns it thenceforth to agnosticism in regard to transcendent realities. The Positivist movement reaches the same terminus. Through mistrust of that reason which Kant had exalted to such a degree, Comte rejects as worthless every conclusion that goes beyond the range of experience. Thus the two systems, setting out from opposite exaggerations, arrive at one and the same theory of the unknowable: nothing is left us now but to fall back upon ourselves and contemplate the phenomena which emerge from the depths of our own ego. We have no other means of information, and it is from this inner source that all knowledge, all faith, and all rules of conduct flow out by the immanent evolution of our life, or rather of the Divine which thus manifests itself through us. This initial position determines the solutions which the doctrine of immanence furnishes for the problems concerning God and Man
     
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  15. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

     
  16. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Don't get your hopes up, Blizzard, because these are the people the Vatican would silence given half a chance. The Bishop leading the Vatican's conference on population control (it had a more Catholic compatible title) summed up the Vatican's approach to moral issues when he asked what's in it for Buenos Aires.
     
  17. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I think it was a Bishop Berkeley (the fool was Irish, thankfully Anglo-Irish) who also entertained this mental-in more ways than one-nonsense back in the eighteenth century. The great writer Samuel Johnson didn't agree and pronounced to his equally great biographer Boswell, upon nearly breaking his foot by kicking a large stone: "I refute it thus".

    Doctor Johnson's great common sense (he understood effective causes, for one) has long been out of fashion, but even the doyen of all these mad philosophers, Hume, admitted that he couldn't live his life by such a view. Imagine telling one's loved ones that they didn't exist, but were only figments of one's imagination. This lunacy is responsible for all the poor fools who think their lives are what they will them to be, no matter the tidal waves of evidence to the contrary-so a man can 'marry' a man; so a man can be a woman today, be back to a woman tomorrow, maybe both simultaneously the day after.

    This kind of thing will not end well. Civilisation was not built on this flight from reality. At some point, unless mankind is about to reach its final end in absolute barbarism, we will have to revert to Aristotle...and Reality.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  18. Mario

    Mario Powers

    AED,

    For many evangelicals, Pope Francis reinforces what they've always thought about the Catholic Church-apostate! Now they have more of what one would call ammunition. So while the Holy Father reaches out to mainline Protestant Churches, the more evangelical Churches run the other way. It actually mirrors the tension that is now so prevalent in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

    I am amazed at the number of Protestant pastors that claim there are no souls in heaven, that we go from death directly to the Second Coming or Rapture. Somewhere on MOG we've mentioned a Pope who entertained that position but recanted on his deathbed. I can't remember his name.

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
     
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  19. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    John XX11. https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/how-does-the-church-correct-the-serious-error-of-a-pope
    Strange how history repeats itself with slight variations. There really is nothing new under the sun.
     
    DeGaulle likes this.
  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Pope John XXII
     

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