I'm not really into conspiracy theories but I sometimes wonder if there is a group on the forum who take it in turns to post anti Pope Francis material.... Try reading more from Pope Francis and you will learn and be happy: Beautiful Quotes from ‘Amoris Laetitia’ Pope Francis’ highly anticipated post-synodal apostolic exhortation on the gifts and challenges of family life was published April 8. Titled Amoris Laetitia, or The Joy of Love, the document was presented to journalists in Italian, French, English, German, Spanish and Portuguese. Signed March 19, the Feast of St. Joseph, the release of the document was delayed in order to allow time for its translation into other languages. The apostolic exhortation is the conclusion of a two-year synod process discussing both the beauty and challenges of family life today. Hosted at the Vatican in 2014 and 2015, these synods gathered hundreds of bishops from around the world. Here are some of the most moving quotes from the document: 1. On the gaze of love: “…where love is concerned, silence is always more eloquent than words. It is an encounter with a face, a ‘thou’, who reflect God’s own love and is man’s ‘best possession, a helper fit for him and a pillar of support’, in the words of the biblical sage (Sir 36:24).” (para. 12) 2. On the Word made flesh: “The incarnation of the Word in a human family, in Nazareth, by its very newness changed the history of the world.” (para. 65) 3. On the sacrament of marriage: “The sacrament of marriage is not a social convention, an empty ritual or merely the outward sign of a commitment. The sacrament is a gift given for the sanctification and salvation of the spouses, since ‘their mutual belonging is a real representation, through the sacramental sign, of the same relationship between Christ and the Church. The married couple are therefore a permanent reminder for the Church of what took place on the cross; they are for one another and for their children witnesses of the salvation in which they share through the sacrament.'” (para. 72) 4. On the Church as family: “The Church is a family of families, constantly enriched by the lives of all those domestic churches.” (para. 87) 5. On children as part of God’s plan: “Each child has a place in God’s heart from all eternity; once he or she is conceived, the Creator’s eternal dream comes true.” (para. 168) 6. On the importance of women: “For the grandeur of women includes all the rights derived from their inalienable human dignity but also from their feminine genius, which is essential to society. Their specifically feminine abilities – motherhood in particular – also grant duties, because womanhood also entails a specific mission in this world, a mission that society needs to protect and preserve for the good of all.” (para. 173) 7. On families not closing themselves off: “Families should not see themselves as a refuge from society, but instead go forth from their homes in a spirit of solidarity with others. In this way, they become a hub for integrating persons into society and a point of contact between the public and private spheres.” (para. 181) 8. On hope: “Hope is the leaven that, in those first years of engagement and marriage, makes it possible to look beyond arguments, conflicts and problems and to see things in a broader perspective. It harnesses our uncertainties and concerns so that growth can take place. Hope also bids us live fully in the present, giving our all to the life of the family, for the best way to prepare a solid future is to live well in the present.” (para. 219) 9. On the ordinary spirituality of the family: “The spirituality of family love is made up of thousands of small but real gestures. In that variety of gifts and encounters which deepen communion, God has his dwelling place.” (para. 315) 10. On the need for God as the central relationship: “The space which each of the spouses makes exclusively for their personal relationship with God not only helps heal the hurts of life in common, but also enables the spouses to find in the love of God the deepest source of meaning in their own lives.” (para. 320) http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/blog/beautiful-quotes-from-amoris-laetitia/
You have avoided answering the question asked yet again. So again I ask: Are you saying that the news article I posted about what the Austrian Bishop said is false?
My children, do not waste time posing questions to which you never receive an answer. (Our Lady to Mirjana, Jan 2, 2017) You are perfectly illustrating what I and others have explained. Those who ask questions about AL are not asking for information, they are wanting to criticize AL and the Pope. I and others (in particular, smudger, who has answered much more clearly than I) have answered endless questions but you and your group are simply not interested in the replies.
Here's another little quote with comments on AL: What emerged at that table was genuine dialogue. Throughout his pontificate thus far, Pope Francis has focused attention on the centrality of dialogue for the church, emphasizing that, as he said to the American bishops during his visit to the United States, we must begin from a position of genuine encounter in which we approach others with love. As the Holy Father writes in Amoris Laetitia: “Everyone has something to contribute, because they have their life experiences, they look at things from a different standpoint and they have their own concerns, abilities and insights.” There is a diversity of theological views among the group, and of all the conversations we’ve had over the past three years, this one proceeded with the most spirited and inspiring discussion. Each person’s assessment was taken seriously, and the responses were gracious. Dr. Patrick Cooper from St. Meinrad Seminary expressed what many of us felt when he praised the hospitality of all in the room and the resulting “honesty of our exchanges.” In the opening paragraphs of Amoris Laetitia, Pope Francis urges “continued open discussion of a number of doctrinal, moral, spiritual, and pastoral questions” raised by the document, specifically singling out the need for “pastors and theologians” to engage in “honest, realistic and creative” thinking. By meeting and talking about the exhortation as pastors and theologians, we’re taking the Holy Father’s call seriously. It’s in this atmosphere of dialogue that together we grew to more fully appreciate the beauty and profundity of Amoris Laetitia. Father Michael Wimsatt took from the discussion a “consistent refrain of praise for the effectiveness with which Amoris Laetitia speaks to the theoretical and theological foundations of love combined with its experiential aspect,” and noted that the discussion was able to transcend the facile categorizations that seem to characterize much of the conversation surrounding the text. https://cruxnow.com/commentary/2016/09/29/louisville-offers-model-real-dialogue-amoris-laetitia/
Just stop posting long articles and answer the 2 simple questions asked by josephite and myself. Is that so hard to do?
One final response to you. I responded to both josephite's and your posts. I explained to both of you why answering the questions from anti-Francis websites like lifesitenews and churchmilitant is POINTLESS. You have illustrated in your posts today why responding to you also is pointless.
David If his answers were truthful, the Church would no longer have need to be concerned with schism or we would have de facto schism; the replies to the dubia would speak for themselves and we would surely know who is leading us. God Bless
If you are looking for a straight answer from a modernist you are going to be waiting a looooooooooooong time. They love words. Lots and lots and lots of them. And when they are done explaining things to you with pages and pages and pages full of words... You are left scratching your head and asking yourself "What did they just say?"
I like the gentleness of your post, Light. But no, the anti-Francis websites would pounce on anything they could find in a response from Francis and start asking other questions. I don't think you should be saddened by the Church at the moment. It certainly has problems but they are not connected with the encyclical. I don't think it impossible that the current problems could blow up into something serious but I don't believe they are serious at the moment. They look serious if you focus on internet websites but they do not represent the position of the Catholic faithful.
Well, since David suggests that Lifesite News and Church Militant are not to be trusted, I used copy and paste to translate the original report of the Bishop's DiePresse interview, which anyone is free to do from their website: http://diepresse.com/home/politik/innenpolitik/5138648/Bischof-Elbs_Terrorismus-ist-Gotteslaesterung Here's the translation, in which he answers questions about terrorism, Islam, refugees, and AL. Bishop Elbs: "Terrorism is blasphemy" The Bishop of Vorarlberg, Benno Elbs, would like to see in the "Presse" -interview that representatives of Islam would also appear more clearly against terrorism 23.12.2016 | 18:39 | by Dietmar Neuwirth (the press) Christmas is considered a feast of love. How can this message in the face of the terrorist attack be taken to a Berlin Christmas market recently? Benno Elbs: Love means that I am standing with a person just then, go with him and try to carry with me when it is the most difficult. Love never goes away, especially when suffering, death, grief, despair fall upon someone. That is why solidarity is a Christmas symbol. What provokes and provokes us provocatively is the demand of Jesus for the love of love, for the one who loves love itself. But only that can break through the spiral of hatred and destruction. Why is the hatred so often so much stronger in the face of current warlike conflicts like in Syria? I am convinced that love is always stronger than hate, even if it looks different at first sight. Hate is a sign of weakness. Christmas is the Feast of Independence against hatred, violence, oppression. Christmas celebrates the trust that love, the positive, the solidarity. Terrorism tries to destroy this basic situation by creating space for anxiety, distrust, despair and distress in order to stir even more hatred. On the other hand, we should fight as Christians, because in all need and despair the signs of solidarity, love and devotion become bigger. We were able to experience this in the face of the plight of the refugees. Nevertheless, if God is love, as the New Testament says, How impious is our world? If God is love, it means that He gives man freedom. Man is free also for evil, godless, for diabolic and destructive action. Therefore it is blasphemy, blasphemy, when someone kills "in the name of God". I would also like to say that representatives of Islam always say this very clearly: terrorism is blasphemy. What does Love and love mean to you at all in the 21st century? There is love as emotion and feeling. We find this strongly in personal relationships. And there is love as a foundation. That is, to build uncompromising bridges, to radically try to respect the other respectfully. This comes from the conviction, as Frère Roger Schutz says, that God has written a story with every human being and everyone has a story with God. Love means, then, to meet every person in this attitude of respect, respect and appreciation. Christmas is also considered a feast for the family. How do you define the family face of change over the past decades? Family is a place where people grow up, become great, become strong, where they learn what they need to live. Many surveys confirm this. Of course, family is also where people decide to live together. The Christian image of family goes beyond it. I see the term family as a place of longing where people experience security. This is also true for homosexuals? Yes. Has it not taken a long time for the Church to approach the life-reality of men and their relations? For me the experiences of the Synod (to the family) were illuminating. There are infinite disparities. The situation in Africa or Asia is completely different from that in Europe. Our questions are a narrow section of reality. In Africa, topics like homosexuality or divorced people do not interest. There is hunger, flight, women are raped and abused. This slowness is therefore understandable. The Pope has spoken of inculturation and thought that one must look more closely at what is important in the individual regions. This is a great advance. Now, as bishops, we are calling on Europe to tackle the problems of our kind, and there is the papal permission to do so. Is there not a risk that the non-simultaneity might become worse? This is the price. It needs a good balance for traveling together and unity with the pope and world church. We were not very satisfied with the previous attempt at centralization in Europe. We must be prepared to live with tensions. That's part of it. Where were the greatest tensions during the Synod? The greatest tensions were on the subject of failure, that is, on the topic of the remarried divorced. The other very exciting point was access to people with homosexual orientation. There is the point of view of illness and healing up to respect and non-discrimination. The composition of the German language group was particularly interesting: with Cardinal Müller, who, as the Congregation for the Congregation of the Congregation, has boosted the ban on receiving the sacrament for the divorced who had newly married, and Cardinal Kasper, who demanded the opposite. How was a common paper possible? The great theologians were there. There was an extremely open conversation climate. Cardinal Schönborn succeeded as the leader, despite the injuries, which in the run-up partly. We had all unanimity, and the Pope accepted much. To this extent the German language group has had a great influence. How disappointed were you that the demand for an apology for those with whom the Church was harshly circumvented is lacking in synods? I would have liked that. This was inconceivable in the mentality of some representatives at the Synod. Do you think it is adequate for the opening of the reception of the sacraments for divorced, newly married women, only in a footnote of the Pope? Whether or not this is in the footnote is not significant. I do not mind. The entire paper breathes the mind that the individual man finds in his conscience a way to deal with situations of life. Others, including bishops, are very disturbing. Auxiliary Bishop Kratzl criticized the Pope as too much for individual cases and neglected to change the doctrine. I disagree with Bishop Krätzl reluctantly, but I must do so. The doctrine is changed in that the open door is there. People have done this before, but now, with the blessing of the Pope, they can, so to speak, make the decision of conscience. This is a major development. It is only reproduced, which was at least in Central Europe standard. Or have you divorced the Communion in a new marriage? No, that's what many pastors have done. I am perfectly right. The Pope says that this is good pastoral action Is this path irreversible? This is irreversible, it has been a long time in pastoral practice. Also theological. One must not commit the mistake, now design new rules. Further development is the attitude that goes beyond norms. What is lacking is a departure from the prohibition of artificial methods of conception. Has the courage been lacking? Was the topic too unimportant to the bishops? Or has the practice made the teaching obsolete? No one is true. Synthetic paper notes that natural contraceptive control is recommended. Recommended. The birth control is in the conscience decision of the couple. How left alone is the Pope? That not all amused, is clear. The Pope is very resolutely taking the path with a clear view of Jesus' actions. . Francis demands bold suggestions from bishops. Where are they from Austria? We have expressed ourselves courageously to political issues such as the refugees. Do you have understanding for those who say there is a limit of resilience achieved? I have strong understanding of the fears of people. It is the task of Christians to have the foundation of the merciful Samaritan. The opposite is my concern. John Paul II has spoken of intelligent neighborly love. That I can not get 80,000 every year, I understand. You are young for a bishop. Do you believe that you will experience priestesses? I do not believe that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There's nothing funny about the interview, but I had to smile at this from the comment box: Another bishop of the time "Family as a place of longing where people experience security." Excuse me, but this can be the corner of the hotel. The biblical family concept is quite different. This comes out when bishops prefer to say what people want than what God wants. I am very happy that there are still many priests who are courageous enough to proclaim the word of God against the temporal spirit. This bishop apparently does not belong to it.
Thank you, Dolours! Could you now please copy the response from the above that is causing some to get hot and bothered. I haven't read the exchanges or the commentaries from the other sites.
Ah David, what did your last maid die of? Hit Ctl+F on your keyboard. That will bring up a search box in the top right of the screen. Type a buzzword into the search box and hit Return. The result will show the number of times the searchword appears in the text and it will also highlight the word in the text. I've spent enough time on this today.
This is all very strange. Where are all the people who were asking me to respond on something from the interview that Dolours posted...???
I just finished listening on youtube to an interview with Charles Coulombe, a papal scholar, entitled "bad popes" on the talk show Go forth Boldly. It was incredibly helpful--an answer to prayer really. It is well worth the listen where these controversial topics are concerned. Coulombe's credentials are impeccable and his charity is edifying. Interested to hear what you think, those of you who take the time to listen. God bless.
