The Third Secret of Fatima and Corruption in the Church.

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I surely pray that God will immensely bless this effort.
    But I have in my mind the failed efforts of the Dubia.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  2. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    A recent blog post of Cardinal Zen's regarding Vatican II and the church today.

    https://oldyosef.hkdavc.com/?p=1503

    Let me join Fr. Giampietro in remembering Vatican II (free translation from my blog – 19-7-2020)
    發佈日期: 2020 年 07 月 26 日,作者: oldyosef
    Fr. Giampietro started a series of written articles and videos to commemorate the 50 years of Vatican II, presenting a recent book by an Australian theologian Ormond Rush “The Vision of Vatican II”.

    Vatican II happened 50 years ago, but it surely doesn’t belong to the past, its light still leads the Church through the darkness of her journey today.

    I and Fr. Giampietro are almost coeval. When he left Italy to come as a newly ordained missionary priest to Hong Kong, I went to Italy to pursue my studies of theology in view of priestly ordination. Around that time John XXIII announced his intention to convoke an Ecumenical Council, we young priests and seminarians, welcomed that announcement with jubilation.

    The last Ecumenical Council (Vatican I) was already 90 years back away, and with the Papal Infallibility proclaimed in that Council, few expected any more Ecumenical Council.

    But in the 90 years of history fast and deep changes happened in the society in many fields. A thorough assessment of the new situation in which the Church found herself was strongly felt necessary.

    From Fr. Giampietro’s first article I can understand what kind of expectations from the council were nurtured in his mind. He said: “from 19 to 24 years of age I realized big changes in my way of thinking”: moving away from the “Tridentine culture” through different readings, some of which belonged to “forbidden literature”.

    As about me, I grew up in Shanghai till 16 years of age. Experience of foreign invasion and poverty was part of my childhood, but on the other side I received a rich formation in Catholic faith from French Jesuits first, and then from the Salesians of Don Bosco, that faith and the accompanying joy always reigned in my heart in spite of all the hardships of life.

    In 1948 I moved to Hong Kong just in time to avoid the atheist dictatorship. Life in Hong Kong was more comfortable than in Shanghai, but the religious fervour and spiritual joy kept growing through the years of novitiate, philosophy studies and training in Salesian work.

    When in 1955, I was sent by my religious superior to study in Italy (Turin) I was 23, more or less 3 years before Fr. Giampietro left Italy for Hong Kong. That means I went into a similar situation as Fr. Giampietro described in that short quotation above. I also “realized big changes in my way of thinking”. In the Pontifical University, with students coming from all continents, I found myself in the real big world, in a Church new to me, which was in a state of awakening and confusion. “A thorough assessment of the situation was strongly felt necessary”.

    To me, a simple-minded young man, the “Italian” situation of those days appeared to be very “nervous”, “on the defense”.

    Fr. Giampietro mentioned the “forbidden literature”. Even in the Italian Church traces of “fascist” style governance could be seen. Few Italian theologians dared to write, most theological books in Italian were translation from other European languages.

    (One day 4 notoriously conservative Italian Cardinals pressured the Salesian superiors to fire our Professor of social ethics, considered too “progressive”. But fortunately, that was an isolated episode.)

    The teaching community in our University was open-minded enough to let “the wheat and the weeds grow together”: as students of an university we were allowed to be informed of all the many “currents” of ideas in the Church, but our Professors were also wise enough to help us to distinguish between the two.

    I am afraid it was this “fascism in the Italian Church” to cause that strong reaction, an expectation of a “liberating” Council, to free the Church from the so called “Tridentine Culture”.

    I have not read the book of Fr. Ormond Rush, innumerable such books appeared after the Council, they present a “comprehensive” vision of the Council, the “fundamental principles” behind the many documents. They may be useful to help having a general understanding of the Council,

    but there is a danger: a particular “comprehensive” presentation of the Council may not be faithful to the documents of the Council, but rather a subjective understanding of it.

    I repeat: I have not read the book by Fr. Rush, but I allow myself to say that Fr. Giampietro’s “comprehensive” presentation of the Council’s vision seems to be out of focus. In the article he seems to say that Vatican II has the merit of undoing the “Tridentine” like the cleansing of Michelangelo’s “Ultimo giudizio”. That would be extremely negative and terribly narrow a vision, and above all: out of focus.

    Let us start from the fundamentals.

    What are the Ecumenical Councils for?

    They are not for the creation of a new Church, but for a new self-understanding. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ on the Apostles. The conclusion of the Frist Ecumenical Council of Jerusalem declared: “It has been decided by the Holy Spirit and by ourselves (apostles)…”.

    Guided by the Holy Spirit the Ecumenical Council are the milestones on the journey of the Church through centuries, accumulating a rich heritage, showing ever brighter the true face of Christ, the Redeemer of mankind.

    The Bishops, the protagonists of the Vatican II worked hard from 1959 to 1965.

    I was in Rome from 1961 to 1964, working hard on my thesis of Doctorate in Philosophy. In spare time, I enjoyed, like other young priests and seminarians in Rome, all the daily hot news and gossips about the Council; the fierce battles along the stereotype of divide between conservatives and progressives; Council Fathers accusing each other with leaflets flying over Saint Peter’s square…The jokes!” (of course, the most memorable thing is the moving “good night”, that 11 October, of John XXIII, from his studio, to the faithful on St. Peter’s square, under the shining moon, concluded with “give a caress to your children, on my behalf”.)

    There is a saying, not far from the truth: an Ecumenical Council starts from human efforts, then comes the devil to make trouble, but at the end the Holy Spirit brings everything to an Happy Ending.

    The seed of Vatican II were sown in the minds and hearts of many believers long before 1959, then the Pope convoked the Council and set up the Preparatory Commission, which gathered materials from all the Churches and drafted the working papers; then the fierce debates in the hall. In the process sometimes charity and good manners left to be desired (the devil came!); Then the many rewritings of the documents (sometimes days were spent on a single sentence or word. How ungrateful those who despise the “minute details” in favour of the “comprehensive spirit” of the Council), only because of such hard work it was possible to reach that almost unanimity in the approval of the final documents.

    The fruit of Vatican II are those 16 Documents, especially the 4 Constitutions. Through those documents you hear the real voice of the Holy Spirit.

    Seminaries, comprehensive presentations, comparative analyses etc. are useful means to understand the Council, but not by ignoring the Documents themselves or manipulating the Documents.

    Unfortunately, the polarization between the Conservatives and Progressives did not disappear after the Council. Fr. Giampietro mentions those who had difficulty to understand, or even refused to accept the “novelties” in Council’s decisions: they are the extreme conservatives; but there are also extreme progressives who claim that now on everything can change in the Church.

    The Church is a living body it certainly grows and changes, but, as Cardinal John Henry Newman puts it, the development is “homogeneous”, i.e. with the substantial identity not altered. A boy grows into maturity and he is still the same person.

    The extreme conservatives say: the Church after the Vatican II is no more the Catholic Church I received baptism in. But you were baptized in a Church which believes in one apostolic Church, led by the Pope and the Bishops as authentic teachers of faith.

    The extreme progressives say: before the Council nothing was allowed to change, now with Vatican II many changes have been made, so, many things should be allowed to change also in the future. Yes, but only by a decision of the legitimate authority, not by an arbitrary choice of anybody, and surely not by undoing the past. The Holy Spirit of today doesn’t contradict the Holy Spirit of yesterday.

    Continued...
     
  3. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Let me spend few words on this “anti-Tridentine Complex”.

    It is true that most Ecumenical Councils in the history were convoked to deal with a crisis (e.g. a heresy), the Tridentine (1545-1563) was one. But by fighting the heresy the Church deepened her self-knowledge.

    The heretics say “sola scriptura!”, “only the Bible is enough”. The Church answered: Bible is precious but it’s a book, Jesus entrusted His Church to living human beings with the promise of His presence and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    The heretics say “sola fides!”, “just believe and you are saved” The Church answered: salvation is not simply a covering of sins leaving us interiorly still a “massa damnata”, the grace transforms us radically and we are given the capacity and duty to live a really “holy” life.

    (Today we don’t call them heretics, we call them brothers, and rightly. But when facing mortal danger you may be excused if you forget the niceties.)

    In the Council clarifications were given on the nature of the Sacraments, especially of Holy Eucharist and the Priesthood.

    For such enriching supply of Church teaching into the deposit of faith, how can we not to be grateful to the Lord?

    When searching for the causes of the protests of the protestants, Tridentine Council recognized serious deficiencies in the formation and care of the clergy. Wise and effective remedies were agreed upon and hence a formidable revival of faith, piety and of missionary zeal: this is the Catholic reform or “Counter-reform” in opposition to protestant reformation. I think both I myself and Fr. Giampietro are beneficiaries of that reform.

    The protesters say “latin is invented by the devil”! Come on! The Church saved the Greek-Roman Culture (philosophy literature, art, music) and used it to educate the invading “barbarians”, after the fall of Roman Empire, laying foundation of the modern European civilization.

    Some may not know that the modern philosophers and scientists still used to write in latin (Francis Bacon 1561-1626, Galileo Galilei 1564-1642, René Descartes 1596-1650, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz 1646-1716, Immanuel Kant 1724-1804).

    The Tridentine theology mainly in latin saved the faith of the Church of the lay, and the Tridentine liturgy in latin with the gregorian chant (including the “dies irae”) nourished the piety of generations and sustained the courage of innumerable martyrs.

    It sounds blasphemous to say that Vatican II had to clean the Church of the Tridentine “dirt”.

    Then, are we not talking about vision? Vision is looking ahead, not backwards. The vision of Vatican II is in the Opening speech of Pope John XXIII, 11 October 1962: “from the renewed, serene and calm adherence to all the teachings of the Church, in its integrity and precision, as resplendent mainly in the conciliar acts of Trent and Vatican I, the Christian and Catholic spirit of the entire world awaits to go one step further towards a doctrinal penetration and a formation of consciences that is in a more perfect correspondence with fidelity to authentic doctrine, studying it and exposing it through the forms of research and the literary formulas of modern thought.”

    This is the meaning of “aggiornamento”, it does not mean to deny our past or to follow all the secular fashions!

    Conclusion:

    Let us admire the divin plan, the one history of salvation. Human freedoms may fail, but God guides the Church securely to the goal. It’s a journey in continuity not through ruptures.

    • The history of Israel was a continuous alternation of fidelity and unfaithfulness. But the true faith of Abraham, through Mary, Jesus and the Apostles, has been transmitted to us.
    • The Old Testament belongs to us too, and the Church of the New Testament is open to everybody.
    • The psalms are prayers which fit every situation of our life. The voice of the prophets rings still relevant to the Church in modern society.
    • We must be grateful to Greek Culture just for the word “Homoousios” which helped the Church to express with exactitude the divin nature of Jesus, true God and true man.
    • The latin language was instrumental to keep the many European and missionary Churches united to Rome. The rich heritage of centuries of liturgical music and ceremonials nurtured the piety of believes. Why should we be surprised, if today’s young people, while sincerely accepting the Church’s liturgical reform, still appreciate the Tridentine Mass?
    • The Church carries on her journey “admixt world’s tribulation and God’s consolation” (St. Augustin “city of God”) “to come to unity in our faith and in our knowledge of the son of God, until we become the perfect Man, fully mature with the fullness of Christ himself” (Eph. 4:13)
    • Vatican II is very aware that errors persist in the world, but the Council doesn’t intend to condemn them, it wants to help man to realize how those errors, especially a willful refusal of God, are not conducive to real human happiness.
    The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the modern world, the most typical expression of the Council’s Vision, lists all the threats to and anxieties of modern man, but is fully confident that the Church is able to come to man’s aid, if only she succeeds to reveal to him the true face of Jesus.
     
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  4. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    If the Church has been coming to man's aid in the last half-century, it is all a matter. How many heresies have to appear, how many apostates have there to be, how much iconoclasm must we endure, how much sacrilege must we suffer and how is all this a matter of 'coming to our aid'?
     
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  5. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    The value and mystery in suffering is not something the world can comprehend. Darkness knows it can not destroy the light so it looks to conceal it from mankind. The mystery of iniquity is no match for the mystery of Faith. How much did our Lord suffer on the road to Calvary to free us?
     
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  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I have thought this way before, Don, because I believe the Church is undergoing a chastisement on the way to
    Calvary.
     
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  7. AED

    AED Powers

    I do as well HH.
     
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    The prophecy of Pope Leo XIII wherein the devil was granted 100 years to destroy the Church figures into what has happened.

    edit: Pope Leo was totally against Freemasons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  9. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    While it seems easy and convenient to blame Vatican II for all the problems in the Church, I believe it is a grave error to do so. The following partial message is where I believe the truth of the matter remains. The confusion comes from Satan and those who have taken Vatican II out of context on both the progressive and ultra-conservative positions.

    www.godspeaskwillyoulisten.org

    6/27/07

    Now let me clear up an area of confusion for you. Daniel 12:11. And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days. The continual sacrifice is the mass and the abomination of desolation is when the doctrine of the mass is changed in my church- the Roman Catholic Church. If you study church history, this doctrine of the mass is the one Satan has tried to destroy. From the time of the early church until now. Please read the next comments carefully. In my present church, there is much confusion regarding Vatican II. This is from Satan, not from me. Answer me a question: if the Holy Father calls an ecumenical council with all the bishops of the world and the Holy Spirit is guiding the church, how can that council be of Satan? It was not.

    My people do not understand the working of my Holy Spirit. Remember, I told you to beware of false prophets who come to you in the clothing of sheep. Satan has caused schism in my church, by allowing false interpretations to abound concerning Vatican II. My words do not change. I am going to give you a clue to share with my people. Satan hates the doctrine of the mass and the doctrines concerning my Blessed Mother. These are the two areas he has been trying to destroy. The Vatican II Council reaffirmed both of these doctrines. This council was not convened by hell, but by my Holy Spirit. A council or a Pope who destroys and denies my mass an d my Blessed Mother’s privileges is from hell. This is how you can recognize the abomination of desolation. A false prophet or anti pope will proclaim the protestant doctrine of the mass to be correct. This is the one teaching that will change. The rest of my churches teachings can stay the same. Satan knows how to deprive my children of everlasting life, deprive my children of my presence. This is how the man of sin, the son of perdition will sit in the temple of God. Reference II Thessalonians 2:4-10. He will attempt to lead my people to deny my presence in the Eucharist and to teach the mass is only a symbol. This is antichrist. This will bring the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. This will cause the unleashing of the bowls of divine justice. My sacrifice of the mass daily holds back my Father ’s justice. Luke 18:8. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth? Will I find any of my children, who I recognize with my life in them? Will there be faith left in my holy sacrifice?

    These are the questions which need to be pondered. My son, a false Christian church will be forced on the people. A gospel of prosperity and a make you feel good gospel will be preached. My churches can be filled with people, but the churches will be dead because I am not there. Without my presence in the churches, God does not dwell in the churches. Then, these sheep who hear my voice will be forced to worship in underground churches where I will be present. This truly is the abomination of desolation and antichrist. Then I will come with the brightness of my coming, destroy this false church, and restore my church according to my will. Then you will see an era of peace. A Eucharistic era of peace where I will reign in the hearts and mind of my people in the holy Eucharist. You must believe all these words I am teaching you and the teachings of my church or you will not enter my era of peace. Ponder these words or I may say to: I NEVER KNEW YOU. The words of the Lord. I bless you Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. AMEN.
     
  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Here God address it again from another perspective:
    www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org

    09/04/07 P.M.

    This is a message to clear up your confusion regarding the 3 Secret of Fatima and the Second Vatican Council. This is an area causing division, fighting, and schism in my church. Sister Lucy had stated: The 3 Secret of Fatima was to be released by 1960. Many traditionalist Catholics interpret this to mean the 3 Secret is about the Second Vatican Council. This is a deception given by the Father of Lies – Satan. My Blessed Mother has revealed the essence of the 3 Secret of Fatima through other apparitions. It deals with apostasy and loss of faith in the Catholic Church amongst other issues. These facts have been substantiated by priests and cardinals in my church. Even at Akita, Japan, my Blessed Mother warned of apostasy and cardinals, bishops, and priests fighting against each other. Division is not from God, but from Satan. A council, called by the Holy Father and attended by the Bishops of the World, is not satanic. It was called by my Holy Spirit. Do my people think they know better than my spirit? My vicar is the head of my church and is led by my Holy Spirit. Read Ecclesiasticus 3:22. Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability, but the things which God hath commanded thee, think on them always and in many of his words be not curious. My people need to follow these words. Stop trying to be the Pope and tell him how to lead my church. You have not been given the mission to be Pope. If you cause rebellion, schism, and rebellion against my true Popes, you are in rebellion against myself, Jesus Christ. The things which God has commanded thee are to be in obedience to His church, and to obey His church’s teachings and commandments. In my church, many voices not of me, are seeking your attention. These voices can be from priests, bishops, religious, and laymen. Any voice, which leads you to schism against my son the Pope, do not listen to them. These voices are led by their own pride, and influenced by the father of lies – Satan. For Satan knows if he can cause division in my church, many souls will be lost forever to hell.

    As you have read, for many years Masonic and communistic forces have tried to destroy my church. Recently, in your news, masons in Mexico and Italy are openly trying to persecute my church. In your country, the 1960’s brought in a culture of sin and relativism. This brought about a rejection of God and his commandments. This is the lie and the deception, which has caused the problems in your world and my church. It is the cry of Satan: I will not serve. You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the increase in the sins of the flesh: homosexuality, abortion, murder, and all the sins of your age. You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the decrease in vocations, lack of reverence and attendance at the Holy Mass. The blame is my people compromising with the world, rebelling against the Holy Father, and believing the lies, deception, and the words of Satan. The problems of today had their beginnings many years prior to the 1960’s. This decade brought the problems into the open. Masonry, in all its diabolical forms, infiltrated my church many years prior to the Second Vatican Council. During those turbulent years, masons were elevated to positions of authority in my church. Those Masonic forces were unleashed from the pit of hell and caused the problems in your world today. My people, rejection of God establishes the reign of Satan in your midst. Read my word. All of these events were prophesied and are being fulfilled before your eyes. My word must be fulfilled. Satan is clever. He is much more intelligent than you. He is using Vatican II as a deceptive lie to hide the real cause for the division in my church. The real cause for the division is the pride of mankind, the rejection of God, and many in my church making compromises with Satan. He knows if the real truth was revealed, the church would be unified, and he would be defeated. This present and continuing purification is exposing the lies and deception of Satan. My church will be as I want it: humble, persecuted, and a light to the world. It will once again follow in my footsteps to Calvary, and to a glorious resurrection.

    To repeat, the Second Vatican Council is not the cause of the problems in my church. The cause is the pride of my people who compromise with the demon. Those who cause division and schism in my church do not listen or follow them. For heresy can occur from many different directions. Those who deny my church’s teachings, whether labeled liberals or traditionalists, are promoting heresy. Pray for these souls. My people, The Holy Father is correcting these errors. If you would follow his guidance, you will not fall into schism and division. He has clearly defined the substance of the Holy Mass and the true meaning of my church. Continue fighting the Holy Father and you are fighting against God. The day will come when a false antipope will try and lead my church. If you are in a state of rebellion against my church now, will you even recognize a false pope? Remember, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. Can you hear my voice if you are in rebellion, causing division in my church? You cannot if your pride is a stumbling block in your life to my graces. Repent of your sins and implore my mercy. These words apply to bishops, priests, religious, and lay people. No one is excluded. You are either with me or against me. You cannot be a servant in my kingdom and the kingdom of Satan with your pride at the same time. Repent today. Tomorrow will be too late.

    Judgment is already beginning in the house of God, and expanding to the ungodly. Do not sit on the fence any longer. You want my blessing. Be submissive to my church and its teaching, and I will bless you. If you refuse to listen to my warnings, you could be deceived and spend eternity in hell. Hell is filled with bishops, priests, and religious who refused to be obedient to my church. For my word proclaims, I Kings 15:22b-23a. For obedience is better than sacrifices: and to hearken rather than to offer the fat of rams. Because it is like the sin of witchcraft, to rebel: and like the crime of idolatry, to refuse to obey. Read Apocalypse 22:15. Without are dogs and sorcerers and unchaste ands murderers and servers of idols and every one that loveth and maketh a lie. You cannot enter my kingdom with these sins on your soul. Without true repentance, you will spend eternity in hell. My people do not give into the lies and deception of Satan. Focus on myself, Jesus Christ only, and let me lead you into the era of peace and life everlasting. These are the words of the Lord.
     
  11. Advocata Nostra

    Advocata Nostra Archangels

    Just for the record, Archbishop Vigano is “The Man”, for sure. But, I’ll have you know that I have many around me who have been saying the very same thing in a different, but synonymous, way: “Two Different Churches”. The only thing that’s changing is the growing divide between them both. Pope Benedict XVI was hoping for one to inform the other liturgically,no? Maybe that’s happening in some places but not most, I’d venture to say.
     
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  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I was watching a talk by Father Alar of the Divine Mercy Shrine. He spoke about the Church being both human and Divine. He also spoke about the prophecy given to Pope LeoXIII wherein the devil asked the Lord for 100 years to destroy the Church. The request was granted.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:
    779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

    (She is ONE.)
     
  13. Advocata Nostra

    Advocata Nostra Archangels

    Yes, the One, True Bride of Christ is the One True Spouse having these two components. What I had referred to in my comment was talk people have of attempts which have been/are being made to fashion an altered version of His Spouse. I’m sorry if I did not make that clearer.:oops:
     
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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    It was clear. But it's not flying with me. The Bible mentions apostasy. That is one of the signs we are in the End Times. IMHO it's apostasy . Yes, I see that attempts are being made to alter the Church. Look at Germany. But that all started with Martin Luther and apparently it has not abated. Look at the freemasons. But IMHO, it's not two churches. It's the humans who have apostasized. (sp)
    I know why you posted what you did. It was following along the lines of Archbishop Vigano's view that there are two churches, and one is superimposed over the other.. But I just don't see it that way. With all respect to you and Archbishop Vigano.
    I'm just glad that Archbishop Vigano has stated that he is not in schism.
     
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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I think Archbishop Vigano refers to it as the "deep church." It corresponds to the Deep State on a worldly level. I definitely see that. But I cannot embrace the idea of two churches.
     
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  16. Advocata Nostra

    Advocata Nostra Archangels

    Yes, I guess I would subscribe to that view as a possibility of a “ deep Church”.
     
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  17. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I share your view. I thought and believed for a long time along the lines of the two church example because there was such a drastic swing with the liberties some in the church took with VC II and continue to press forward with. As we all know this is now swinging back toward more traditional worship in many places. This swing was especially evident in America and is seen in Europe and especially in places that historically have been bulwarks of the faith. I realized though that before the VC the church was predominately made up of Europe and the west. Now it has spread around the world with the biggest growth in places like South America and some Asian countries while growth in the European and American continents has slowed in comparison. A large portion of that new growth like it or not has come directly from Jesuit efforts and while most of us in the west disagree with liberation theology (and for good reason IMO) South America and most of Asia do not have the history of democracy that we have experienced.
    While many I think bristle with the idea of the Church heading in such a liberal direction one has to admit that the more people Baptized in the Spirit and sealed in confirmation inside the Church is of course something that can not be ignored. In 1910 there were roughly 300 milion Catholics worldwide. Today that number stands at over a Billion with places such as China a vast opportunity for the Holy Spirit to do it's work and bring people into the Church.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-population/

    What is also surprising IMO is that in spite of the decrease in vocations to the Church in America since 1960 the number of Catholics has almost doubled. As a percentage of the US population we have decreased from 25 to 22 percent but we still make up the fourth largest of catholic nations by percentage world wide.
     
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  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I interpret it as meaning that apostates associated with the Church have superimposed an entity over Her that has, for those weak or ignorant in faith, an appearance of being the Church to the degree that many are deceived into thinking that this is in fact so. We are in an era of masking, from Mohammedanism to Covidism. Masks conceal realities that lie beneath them. Satan and his minions are attempting to place a mask 'masquerading' as the Church upon the Real One. While this mask church is only skin deep, a bad coat of paint, the True Church, the Bride of Christ, lies in Her Glory beneath, as She always has. We must never forget this and must hang on for dear life to Her, no matter how abominational the mask becomes. As these abominations reach their zenith, the Church will be on Her Cross.

    That's how I see it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  19. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Let us not forget (sub-Saharan) Africa, the most fertile 'breeding ground' of all for Christianity in general and for Catholicism in particular. More encouragingly, the kind of Catholicism developing in Africa (and much the same seems to apply to their Anglicanism) appears to be of a very traditional, unworldly kind.

    We also have the mass movement of Mohammedans into the West. It is understandable to fear this as a future Islamisation of the West. However, God writes straight with crooked lines. As the prophesies seem to indicate, the phenomenon of migration might well be a divine 'trap', leading to the ultimate conversion, not of the Christians to Mohammedanism, but of the Mohammedans to Christianity-and I believe Catholicism is the flavour they will go for. I think this is partially a message from Fatima. But Catholicism is also the religion they most fear, so it probably represents for them an uncomfortable voice, calling.
     
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Interesting point of view, DeGaulle. Of all the places on the face of the Earth, Our Lady chose Fatima, a place with a Mohammedan name.
     

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