In Saint Faustina's Diary and life Justice and Mercy walk side by side, hand in hand. Today we have the heresy of Mercy being divorced from Justice and suplanting it. There is an interesting passage in Saint Fautina's life when as a nun she returned to her home village. A lot of the women from round about came to visit and talk with Fustina for it was a big occasion , home girl makes good so to speak. But St Faustina writes in her diary how filled with horror she was at how many of them were so far from God. St Faustina was a realist. You can't do some kind of magical frog leap over contrition and right smack into the arms of mercy. First God convicts you off sin (the truth). Then God grants you the grace of true contrition . Then you are unfolded in the arms of mercy. It is not the other way around. Padre Pio not long after he received the stigmata in the little village of San Giovanni Rotundo formed his first prayer group for the ladies of the village. But he had one unalterable rule. No one could join the prayer group unless they had been attending daily mass for quite some time. He knew you could only build on the firm foundations of true reformation of conduct. He chased people who were not repentant from his confessional. He knew, contrition first, true contrition and then mercy. Someone asked him one time if he was not worried about the folks he sent packing to which he replied, 'The good ones always come back'. Let me put this another way. First truth. Then contrition. Then mercy. Padre Pio's apostolic creed in a nutshell. View attachment 2351
Yes we are fast travelling to a new land. Covered in flames and black smoke and Eternal in Nature. Well I for one am digging my heels in. They are not dragging me down this hideous dark path. “No longer does order reign anywhere. Even in the highest places Satan reigns and directs the course of events. Satan will succeed in infiltrating into the highest positions in the Church' http://www.apparitionsofthevirginmary.com/fatima_3rd_secret.htm
I'm a little lost here. Are you thinking it's merciful to break Church law and go against doctrine to allow divorced/remarried to receive communion? Bless gay unions? Obviously neither is merciful, it's pure hatred of your brothers to allow such things. What "mercy" are you referring to? Like bending the rules?
Where did I say anything like that. Please don't put words into my mouth! I quoted the diary of a saint. I don't hate anyone. I'm sorry that this site that I once loved is degenerating into hate filled accusations. Good bye.
Hold firmly that our faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the Church. St. Thomas Aquinas
whoa Whoa, sorry Miker! I really was wondering what you and Padraig were discussing, I think I missed something. He is saying mercy and justice go hand in hand, you quoted about the mercy. I got all that but was wondering if you were saying mercy is more important in our times. I don't think YOU hate your brothers at all!!!
When I said it's pure hatred of your brothers to ALLOW such things I was referring to the priests and cardinals that do this, hence the word ALLOW. You, Miker, cannot ALLOW either of those things as you are not in the position to do so obviously.
That's the central personal issue I suppose Padraig. A path is not evil simply because it is dark. "the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." And I have few doubts that the word "dark" could have been appropriately inserted in this saying as well. The apophatic mystics assert this most strongly. It has ever been so. Yet so many seem to want bright lights all the way to heaven... To require bright lights all the way may mean we are opposing not the devil but God.
Seeing the struggle we on this forum have with this topic, I'm beginning to have some sympathy for those at the synod!!!! Maybe we could all take a deep breath and exhale slowly As a constant sinner and constant repenter I am terrified of both the truth and justice of God. Its at the foot of His mercy seat that you'll find me when all is said and done... It gets easier to repent when I know about the ocean of mercy... but I know vast tracts of society presume there is only mercy, and give no thought to justice, so they don't feel the necessity to repent. To preach repentance in the context of justice and trust only can sound thin lipped, and maybe even hopeless. For me the magnitude of His mercy is the only thing that makes repentance seem worth while trying. Fr John Ricardo talks about sitting inside the door of heaven and watching people being turned away because he failed to bring them to the truth. The truth is that God is merciful if we repent. How do we shrewdly preach that? My love to you all.
Sorry for misinterpreting and I appreciate your reaching out. To be honest, as I read these threads , I'm finding myself pulled into the very vortex I promised myself I would not get pulled into. Time to do some soul searching about how edifying it us to remain here.
How can anyone get to the heart of any sinner without first being merciful and open? Only love can open this door. Justice will reign no matter what by God's plan, the church is called to save souls first and foremost. You can't save souls by reaching out to them with the 10 commandments hanging off you hand. It' s slow process for some to convert and every little effort of love and mercy may lead the soul to seek god's mercy even if not till the end. Those that firmly reject the open hand and mercy or try to change God's natural laws to suit themselves or their views will clearly feel the justice of God. I remember when I was farthest from God and it was this feeling of love and concern that slowly won me back. Yes God did lead me to it but it wasn't and never would have been a sermon of justice first. It's always mercy and love first. The real argument is one of general judgement of sin and the soul of each person. You can't really included both in one discussion without mixing the 2. Mercy has to be personal and offered one soul at a time in my opinion. The idea that we can offer mercy to a group in general that is sinning in going to sound liberal but for those that do seek God they will hear the call. You first have to win over souls by talking to them. The other point is some sins are hidden and others out for all to see. The guy sitting next to us in church may be in a state of mortal sin cheating on his wife and on the other side a clearly gay leaning person not in a state of mortal sin. Are we going to treat them or judge them differently at the end of mass when both strike up a conversation? Both trying and struggling....
A careful reading of Numbers chapters 13 and 14 does not bear this out. Of the thousands who came out of Egypt with Moses, only Moses, Caleb and the children entered into the promised land because of a lack of faith. All those "kicking and screaming" eventually fell dead in the desert. Since God never changes, we can expect that those who persist in "kicking and screaming" will not survive this storm to see the new thing God has for us on the other side of it.
It's amazing really how often I find myself going to the day's Gospel and it touching on things mentioned on the forum; such as today's: Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Saint Luke 17:1-6. Jesus said to his disciples, "Things that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they occur. It would be better for him if a millstone were put around his neck and he be thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; .and if he repents, forgive him. And if he wrongs you seven times in one day and returns to you seven times saying, 'I am sorry,' you should forgive him." And the apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith." The Lord replied, "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you would say to (this) mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you. Jesus here talks on forgiveness. But I couldn't help notice Jesus placing some caveats. The first one is: 'If your brother sins, rebuke him'. Rebuke him. Don't act like there isn't a problem. Set him straight. The second is: ' .and if he repents, forgive him.' He repents and is forgiven. He is not forgiven then maybe , if he feels up to it and is touched by your forgiveness he maybe repents. No; repentance is clearly the doorway to forgiveness. So for the sinner we see a set of doorways he passes through to mercy. He is rebuked, he repents, he is forgiven. It is not the reverse. He is not forgiven, repents and then is rebuked. There is some kinda order and logic int this, each stage flowing from the other. Grace is free. It is not cheap.
I know discussing subjects like this can be a big turn off to some folk. But I think from time to time if we are being honest with each other we should discuss such things. Jesus sometimes had 'Hard sayings' which were a big turn off for some people, they ran away from Him screaming ,so to speak. But Jesus stuck His neck out anyway. I think one thing though. The fact that some folks may disagree with us on such serious issues does not make them bad people. A sense of lightness and humour does no harm. We can't all be right all the time. Even me.
Although Cardinal Kasper is somewhat demonised on this forum, I copy below a brief report of some quite good remarks by him on Pope Francis: Religion News Service November 10, 2014 Kasper told a standing-room-only crowd at Catholic University last week that Pope Francis wants a “missionary Church” with an open door, not “a self-centered, self-pitying Church immersed in its own suffering.” Not everyone sees Francis as “the beginning of a new spring in the Church,” said Kasper. “Every pope will have his opponents and enemies.” Critics see Francis and the say-what-you-really-think-synod as potentially dangerous — an erosion or softening of doctrine or a revolution in morality. But Kasper would have none of that. He repeated a familiar refrain: “The pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.” By radical, he means returning to the origins of a Church rooted in mercy, said the cardinal, author of a new book, “Mercy: The Essence of the Gospel and the Key to Christian Life.” In his lecture, he described Francis as “a pope of surprises” and “a Jesuit through and through” with “a holy impatience with our divisions.” He said the pope’s view is that “the churches are too wrapped up in their own concerns. … The Church cannot be self-centered, revolving around itself, but a Church on the move,” at the center of human existence, not the periphery. http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2014/11/10/cardinal-pope-francis-wants-no-self-pitying-church/
This sounds fine. Wonderful. I hate to sound stupid. But what does it mean? I am starting to wonder lately if I am suffering from the early onset of Alzeimers. I keep reading these wonderful high sounding statements which begin to inspire , then I come down to ground with a thunk ,scratching my head wondering what it all means.... What for instance is a , 'Self pitying Church?'
