If you want to do research on it, I'm afraid you are going to have to get off your butt and go out into the libraries and look for it. This occured nearly 50 years ago. But be careful of calling me out as a liar on this, you'll be left with some considerable egg on your face if you do. What I wrote is no secret. It mightn't suit you to hear this, but whether it suits you or not, its still the truth.
As far as the Orthodox church members being able to receive Holy Communion I can see that because they have the same sacraments of Confession and Eucharist. I can also understand a deathbed anointing of the sick and then reception of Holy Eucharist by some Protestants because the Catholic Church recognizes many (not all) Protestant baptisms as valid. Theologically whenever someone is validly baptized they are baptized into the Catholic Church, not into their Protestant Church, since there is only one true Church founded by Christ. They are just unaware that they are Catholic. This is entirely different however from someone from a Protestant sect presenting themselves for regular Holy Communion. The sacrament of confession is non-existent among Protestants so how can they possibly present themselves in a state of grace to receive?
I have really enjoyed reading this thread and the last posts in particular have been outstanding. I feel like getting the popcorn out at one moment and the boxing gloves the next. I am glad that these things are allowed to be discussed freely and honestly. We all love the Church and all have genuine concerns but this should never be allowed to stifle open debate and questioning in a spirit of charity and with the good of the Church in mind. Clarity and precision of thought is hard to find these days and we should all seek to display both in our posts.
Padraig, you mentioned something on the last page about why these people have not been shown the door. I agree here but at the same time this is not just a current problem. These wolves were present under St. JP as well as Pope Benedict and were not shown the door then. Nothing burns me more than the fact that in the US known "Catholics" like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are still allowed to go through the communion line when they have a well known supportive stance on abortion. Our church is in crisis, the true devout Catholics are few and far between. I see them, but it is hard to see them on Sunday unless you go to the early masses. You definitely see them during the week though and thank God they are there, because just one of these individuals praying for the church and the world will move mountains. It is no secret why the church is in this state. It is well known but it also seems to be coming to an end. We all sense this, know this and believe this. These are the definite birth pangs and it is only going to get worst. It is always darkest before the dawn. Pope Leo XIII vision 1884: The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasting to Our Lord: "I can destroy your Church" The gentle voice of Our Lord: "You can? Then go ahead and do so." Satan: "To do so, I need more time and more power." Our Lord: "How much time? How much power? Satan: "75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service." Our Lord: "You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will." Is there any doubt now that we are indeed in this 75 - 100 year period? I believe that this all began in October 1917. The Lord granted this but then also sent the world His Mother to help us combat the dark times that fell on the world. I don't know this for fact obviously but it seems likely.
The crisis is growing because those in a position of leadership in the Church (including the Pope) either do not recognise that there is a problem or recognise there is a problem and simply ignore it or in fact acquiesce because they sympathise. Hence we have an explosion of apostate 'reform' movements both lay and clerical within the Catholic Church who are convinced Pope Francis is on their side. They hated John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI and publicly stated their position. But they love Pope Francis because they see him as being on their side. They may be mistaken in their interpretation of Pope Francis but the fact that they are growing movements with ready access to the media means that they have disproportionate influence. http://wearechurchireland.ie/about-us/ http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/ http://www.catholicchurchreform.com/reformGroups.html With all due respect to Pope Francis (and I see many admirable qualities in his love for the poor and marginalised) he does not seem to be able to grasp the height or depth of the crisis within the Catholic Church itself and this indeed is itself perhaps the greatest sign of the times!
I don't think it's possible to claim that the prohibition of Eucharistic intercommunion for Protestants is only a disciplinary measure. Read the Catechism section on the Eucharist, especially CCC 1400 and 1401. Given the language used there (and that the Catechism is not intended to discuss merely disciplinary matters), it seems clear that this (if it is a discipline at all), it is a discipline which is intrinsically connected to dogma: 1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders." It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord's death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory." 1401 When, in the Ordinary's judgment, a grave necessity arises, Catholic ministers may give the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, and Anointing of the Sick to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church, who ask for them of their own will, provided they give evidence of holding the Catholic faith regarding these sacraments and possess the required dispositions.
The Church is in freefall in Europe: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/20/the-german-catholic-church-in-freefall/ https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/d...urch-is-collapsing-as-they-face-hundreds-of-c http://ncronline.org/news/global/belgian-catholics-issue-reform-manifesto Things are not much better in Latin America http://qz.com/342810/why-the-cathol...in-america-and-how-its-trying-to-get-it-back/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/11/13/latin-america-less-religious-study/18946703/
I agree with much of what you have said Garabandal. It is as if we have a Church within a Church. There are those who can see the grave crisis the Church is in and those who have no idea anything is wrong at all.
The solution to the great crisis in the Church is HOLINESS. Holiness of priests and pastors. Holiness of the laity. Holiness is attractive. Padre Pio pray for us. One man, who was thrown out of the confessional by Padre Pio, stated, "What kind of blackguardly monk is that? He did not give me time to say a word, but straightway called me an old pig and told me to get out!" Another person said to this man that Padre Pio probably had good reasons for calling him an old pig and treating him in this way. "I can’t think why," said the man who had been thrown out of the confessional; and then, after a pause, the man said, "unless it is because I happen to be living with a woman who is not my wife."
Pope Francis Homily today...snippet... The scribes and priests are furious with Jesus “‘Jesus did not chase the priests and scribes away from the Temple; he chased away those who were doing business there, the businessmen of the Temple. The chief priests and scribes were involved in their dealings: this is ‘holy bribery’! The Gospel is very clear. It says “The chief priests and scribes wanted to kill Jesus, along with the elders of the people’. The same thing happened under the rule of Judas Maccabeus. Why? Because ‘they did not know what they were doing, since everyone hung on his every word’. Jesus’ strength is to be found in his words, in his love. And where Jesus is, there is no room for worldliness. There is no room for corruption! This is a challenge for each and every one of us; this is the struggle the Church has to face every day. We must always heed Jesus’ words; we must never seek comfort from another master. Jesus told us that we cannot serve two masters. God or riches; God or power”. The Pope concluded saying “We ought to pray for the Church. We must hold in our hearts today’s martyrs, who suffer and die, so as not to be ensnared by worldly desires, by obsession, by apostasy. Today! Today, there are more martyrs of the Church than there ever were before. Let’s think about that. It does us good to think about them. And also to pray that we may never fall into the trap of worldliness, where we will be obsessed only by money and power”. (from Vatican Radio) Full text on the Pope Francis thread
The point I am trying to make (apparently without much success ) is that these quotes (from the Catechism and Canon Law) are effectively showing that the matter is fundamentally disciplinary because if it wasn't, there would be no exceptions. It seems likely that when the Pope's document on the matter is eventually published, it will treat the matter as disciplinary. This could encourage a significant negative response from some Cardinals. This is what we await.
In today's Church Padre Pio would have been stripped of his faculties immediately. The Church today is truly lost.
Padre Pio "My sons, the world is catching fire! Fight with all your strength against divorce and abortion." Padre Pio said this sorrowfully to the regional delegate of Catholic doctors of Umbria in 1968, the year of his death (The Voice of Padre Pio, No. 4 1987, p.10) Holy people understand the truth "For I hate divorce, says the Lord, the God of Israel" (Malachi 2v16) Holy people were martyred for the truth: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02394b.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fisher
I made the mistake of looking at my phone when i woke in the wee small hours and have been searching for a source to your report about Paul VI and abortion. Once again I face a long hard day having had little sleep and would be grateful if you could refer me to your source. I have tried.
The exact conditions ARE disciplinary to some extent. What is not disciplinary is that to receive the Eucharist, one must give evidence of holding Catholic belief regarding the Eucharist, and one must not be in a state of mortal (or manifestly grave) sin.
Exactly! How is not being in a state of grave sin possible without Confession or Anointing of the sick? Protestants do not have these sacraments.
I have heard that as long as they are sorry for their sins in their hearts, Protestants do not need Confession. Don't shoot the messenger......that's just what I've heard.
