Heres the hinge tho, In DANGER of Death 4. If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed. I read a few conditions...its not willy nilly
No, it's not just that. It mentions special occasions. In one of the articles it even cited the fact that Tony Blair was given Holy Communion by a sitting Pope while he was Anglican. (Tony Blair was Anglican, not the Pope )
After reading the article, its a he said she said piece basically. Seems Cardinal Hume gave warning not to receive to Tony Blair.... flip a coin on it ...lol
I will have to go back and read all of the articles again in the morning. It is passed my "thinking clearly" time. Hacking through canon law at midnight is not what I am made for.
As you probably know Praetorian. Ignatian, or Jesuit, spirituality has a particular focus on the development of the individual's personal relationship with God; God wants each one of us to come to know him in a unique way, in His way. This way, of course, runs within the guidelines of doctrine and dogma and Jesuits profess particular loyalty to the Pope, but the emphasis of seeking God within the personal circumstances of our daily lives rather than primarily and exclusively through church control has always threatened some elements of those in authority. As you know this fear and resentment meant they were banned by certain popes who regarded them as a law unto themselves rather than selves subject to the law. The irony of a Jesuit Pope has not been lost by some and completely missed by many. The reality of Ignatian Catholicism and the personal responsibility it entails was to much to swallow let alone digest for some. It seems it still is. Pope Francis has proclaimed God to be the God of surprises and that we should not reject or resist the surprises he has in store for each one of us nor close ourselves to those possibilities. Pope Francis is a great believer in this notion and his belief that mystery does not seek publicity but unfolds itself in God's way and in God's time may explain why he has not been so inclined to always explain himself on demand. The life of faith is the more abundant life and is essential to salvation. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. I am greatly blessed and I thank God for it. May God bless you too. The beginning of every assignment at my Jesuit school was headed A.M.D.G. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam - To the greater glory of God. My school motto was Ad majora natus sum - I am born for greater things. Jesus tells Nathaniel in John 1:50 "You are going to see greater things than that." Pope Francis holds us in anticipation of greater things from our God of Surprises. Let us not lose faith in providence, neither God's not our Pope's. Benedict XVI described Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Jesuits, as "a man who gave first place of his life to God." Ignatius in his First Principle says "I want and and I choose what better leads to the deepening of God's life in me." This, I believe is the path to true Christian maturity a path on which Pope Francis invites us to take our place with him. On a more personal level I had two grand uncles who were Jesuits and for whom I had great affection and admiration. Maybe that explains my bias. Each assignment at school concluded L.D.S. Laus Deo Semper- Praise to God always.
I have take some time out to pray about this thread. The Catholic Church is in a state of crisis - a profound crisis. The Church is confronted by the greatest crisis in its history! This is the Church led by Pope Francis (valid Pope) who seems not to care a jot that the Church is riddled with the cancer of heresy and apostacy. Many (if not the majority) of theologians are apostate. One has just to go into Veritas Catholic bookstore to see this is true. Trying to find an orthodox book is like looking for hen's teeth. Confusion reigns. How far we have fallen that many cannot see the cancer in the Church. Many Cardinals, many Bishops, and many Priests are on the path of perdition and they take many souls with them. One example is the Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland (over 1/3rd of priests in Ireland belong to this apostate group). http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/ The Belgian, the Dutch, the German bishops would not look out of place as members of the Association of Catholic priests. They use a 'false'mercy to justify any Tom, Dick or Harry joining the communion line. To the Eucharist, there is given less and less importance Meanwhile theologians spout all sorts of heresy and apostacy without fear http://ncronline.org/news/people/ir...aking-humanae-vitae-fetish#.Vk2msYJQKM8.email They preach a false Christ, a Christ without the Cross. They are the ones who at the foot of the cross shouted 'Come Down from the cross and we will believe'. They choose the wide path not the narrow path of salvation.Many are imbued by the Spirit of the world and not the spirit of Christ. Pastoral Care is the mantra they have chosen, a code word for silence on the issue of sin. Sin has been abolished, confession relegated as a relic of the past. Repentance and conversion are not in their dictionary. Because they are not men - they have become feminized like the modern world about us. They fear to preach the truth that mortal sin leads to eternal death and damnation. No wonder the revelation of Hell was the first secret of Fatima because our Lady was showing us it was real. The modern Church appears not to believe in it any longer. But many are going there! The Church is imbued by the spirit of relativism hence the great confusion all around us; 'positive elements of cohabitation outside of marriage' (fornication is all right folks in the new modern Church); 'homosexuals have gifts to offer' - rather homosexual acts and abortion are the sins that are going to bring down the fire from heaven as in the Akita prophecy. When the fire falls we are all going to regret not fighting more against these abominable sins. We are leaderless, rudderless, the flock is abandoned to the wolves and some of the wolves are within the sheepfold. We are being led by one who does not appear to notice that there is any problem. We need to pray for leaders in the Church that they might become men who are not afraid of the truth and not afraid of the world (and thank God for all of the faithful priests and Bishops who can see the reality of this profound crisis).
I would not let people like this in my home, much less my Church. Why are these people not being shown the door? Why because the people in charge of the door are not showing them the door? Why are they not showing these wretches the door? Well in part it is simple cowardice and fear of Human Respect. But it is equally clear now that it is because many in the very highest positions in the Church are heretical wretches themselves.
This quote plus others that can be provided from canon law and the Catechism make it absolutely clear that the matter of who should be able to receive Holy Communion is entirely a disciplinary matter and not one of dogma. This is why those (including Cardinals) who choose to turn this matter into a matter of dogma with heretical consequences are mistaken in their view.
With respect David this is not in fact the case. This argument from the particular case that of a dying person may be carried forward into a generalised argument regarding everyone cannot stand. I see this the very same thin end of the wedge type argument used in the support of abortion. That when a mothers life is in danger in case of child birth the child can be murdered in order to secure the life of the mother. The thin end of wedge argument goes on to suggest that if the child is to born physically challenged it may be murdered , if the child to be born is socially inconvenient to its parents it can be murdered and so forth. The thin end of the moral wedge being established, the shoe of precident having been wedged thorugh the door. The fact that mercy is applied to a particular dying person in a particular case is not a generalised argument for it being applied at all times and places or that a genral Dogmatic Impedement to non Catholics receiving communion. Back during the Nigerian Civil War from 1967 to 1970 several unfortunate Biafran nuns were raped by Nigerian soldiers and became pregnant. On urgent appeal to the Vatican the then Pontiff Paul vi gave permision for these nuns to have abortions and effectively murder their children. Pope Paul vi later repented for this and admitted he was wrong for having given his assent to this multiple child murder. This False Mercy. I place forward this to remind people that Pope's like the rest of us can boob. But even if Paul vi left this as a precedent he was wrong (as he subsequently admittted himsef), it was wrong and the murder of unborn children is always wrong as is giving the Body and Blood of Chirst to those who are not of the Church. If in mercy we give the Body and Blood of Christ to the dying in particular people as an act of mercy nothing changes. Just as nothing changed in Paul permitting those nuns to have abortions. We should be very,very careful indded of these kind of thin end of the wedge type moral arguments. They lead to nothing but moral disaster. There is a mercy that is true, like assisting the dying, there is a Mercy that is false like killing the babies of raped nuns. Another false mercy is to give the Body and Blood of Christ to those who are unworthy to receive it. This has been the teaching of the Church for 2000 years and please God will remain the teaching of the Church till the end of time. No thin end of the wedge type arguments will change this.
!!!!!wow!!!!! I had no idea this happened!!!!! I am so glad I didn't know all this when I was converting.
Padraig, can you give a link to this alleged story on Blessed Pope Paul VI ? First ive ever heard this.
I think Heidi, perhaps the difficulty we have is that we kind of put our Popes on too high a pedestal. This is not there fault but ours. They are sinners and have clay feel like the rest of us and I think we need to be open to this. The difficulty is that the last few Popes the last century or so have been pretty amazing. But it shoudn't kill us to admit that they have made mistakes like the rest of us. It kind of knocks people over backwards to consider that we might have a rogue Pope on her hands. But we have had many, many dodgy Popes in the past and no doubt we will have many bad Popes in the future. This is because we all sinners. Jumping up and down and getting excited and folks screming. 'You can't say things like that!' Won't change a thing. I have said it and I will continue to say it. Many Cardnals and Bishops are starting to say the exact thing . That doesn't make them or me bad people, it just makes us honest enough to say out loud what many folks are thinking in their hearts. As to Pope Paul vi , I like the guy. He made a mistake but feesed up to it. I hope I can fess up to my own sins as he did.
Before I do, I am curious. Do you think it is possible for a Pope to do such a thing? Do you admit the possibility? Kinda makes it hard to keep the, 'Pope on a pedestal', idea up there in orbit , doesn't it? One of the things I like about our first Pope Peter is he started right on out making bad mistakes and kept right on making them. Kinda like Jesus made the klutch of the bunch Pope to make a point , don't you think?
I have not been able to find any reliable source for the mistake you indicate that Paul VI made regarding the Biafran Nuns. It sounds very unlikely but you indicate that if this did happen, Paul VI quickly reversed his position. But as has been said many times, Popes can make mistakes. However, the point I was making regarding who has permission to receive the Eucharist is not about Popes making mistakes but about the basic underlying position which is that the matter is one of discipline, not dogma. The following sections from Canon 844 make that clear. Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned. If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed.
If you beleive it to be possible go and look it up for yourself. You have fingers and a keyboard the same as I do. If you think I'm lying and its could never be true , then nothing I can say will ever make a difference. So look into the matter yourself.
I am sorry David you are reaching here. Oriental Churches who accept Transubstantiation are not in the same bat as Lutherans who, generally do not. In either case you are projecting the very,very particular to the general. The thin end of the wedge type argument .
So its better to post such claims about a Pope then to give a solid source link to support a claim.. Thats Charity ?
