"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests); churches and altars will be sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord. ' View attachment 3729
We should not loose hope though. Increasingly it will become more and more evident to all the very dark path towards which we are being led. Many will awaken fromt heir sleep before it is too late. Many poor, poor souls , deceived, will walk blindly into the outer darkness. But we must pray much for them and for the Church. 'Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.' Pope St. Felix III
May 13, 1820: "I saw the relationship between the two Popes. I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city (of Rome). The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness. Then, the vision seemed to extend on every side. Whole Catholic communities were being oppressed, harassed, confined, and deprived of their freedom. I saw many churches close down, great miseries everywhere, wars and bloodshed. A wild and ignorant mob took to violent action. But it did not last long." "Once more I saw the Church of Peter was undermined by a plan evolved by the secret sect, while storms were damaging it. But I saw also that help was coming when distress had reached its peak. I saw again the Blessed Virgin ascend on the Church and spread Her mantle [over it]. I saw a Pope who was at once gentle, and very firm . . . I saw a great renewal, and the Church rose high in the sky." August 10, 1820: "I see the Holy Father in great anguish. He lives in a palace other than before and he admits only a limited number of friends near him. I fear that the Holy Father will suffer many more trials before he dies. I see that the false Church of Darkness is making progress, and I see the dreadful influence that it has on people. The Holy Father and the Church are verily in so great a distress that one must implore God day and night." "Last night I was taken to Rome where the Holy Father, immersed in his sorrows, is still hiding to elude dangerous demands (made upon him). He is very weak, and exhausted by sorrows, cares, and prayers. He can now trust but few people. This is mainly why he is hiding. But he still has with him an aged priest who has much simplicity and godliness. He is his friend, and because of his simplicity they did not think it would be worth removing him. But this man receives many graces from God. He sees and notices a great many things which he faithfully reports to the Holy Father. It was required of me to inform him, while he was praying, of the traitors, and evil-doers who were to be found among the high-ranking servants living close to him, so that he might be made aware of it." August 25, 1820: "I do not know in what manner I was taken to Rome last night, but I found myself near the Church of St. Mary Major, and I saw many poor people who were greatly distressed and worried because the Pope was to be seen nowhere, and also on account of the restlessness and the alarming rumors in the city. These people did not seem to expect the church doors to open; they only wanted to pray outside. An inner urging had led them there individually. But I was in the Church and I opened the doors. They came in, surprised and frightened because the doors had opened. It seems to me that I was behind the door, and they could not see me. There was no office on in the Church, but the Sanctuary lamps were lit. The people prayed quite peacefully." "Then I saw an apparition of the Mother of God, and she said that the tribulation would be very great. She added that these people must pray fervently with outstretched arms, be it only long enough to say three Our Fathers. This was the way her Son prayed for them on the Cross. They must rise at twelve at night and pray in this manner; and they must keep coming to the Church. They must pray above all for the Church of Darkness to leave Rome." "She (the Holy Mother) said a great many other things that it pains me to relate: she said that if only one priest could offer the bloodless sacrifice as worthily and with the same dispositions as the Apostles, he could avert all the disasters (that are to come). To my knowledge the people in the church did not see the apparition, but they must have been stirred by something supernatural, because as soon as the Holy Virgin had said that they must pray to God with outstretched arms, they all raised their arms. These were all good and devout people, and they did not know where help and guidance should be sought. There were no traitors and no enemies among them, yet they were afraid of one another. One can judge thereby what the situation was like." September 27, 1820: "I saw deplorable things: they were gambling, drinking, and talking in church; they were courting women. All sorts of abominations were perpetrated there. Priests allowed everything and said Mass with much irreverence. I saw that few of them were still godly, and only a few of them had sound views on things. I also saw Jews standing under the porch of the Church. All these things caused me much distress." June 1, 1821: "Among the strangest things that I saw, were long processions of bishops. Their thoughts and utterances were made known to me through images issuing from their mouths. Their faults towards religion were shown by external deformities. A few had only a body, with a dark cloud of fog instead of a head. Others had only a head, their bodies and hearts were like thick vapors. Some were lame; others were paralytics; others were asleep or staggering." "I saw what I believe to be nearly all the bishops of the world, but only a small number were perfectly sound. I also saw the Holy Father-- God-fearing and prayerful. Nothing left to be desired in his appearance, but he was weakened by old age and by much suffering. His head was lolling from side to side, and it dropped onto his chest as if he were falling asleep. He often fainted and seemed to be dying. But when he was praying, he was often comforted by apparitions from Heaven. Then, his head was erect, but as soon as it dropped again onto his chest, I saw a number of people looking quickly right and left, that is, in the direction of the world." "Then I saw that everything that pertained to Protestantism was gradually gaining the upper hand, and the Catholic religion fell into complete decadence. Most priests were lured by the glittering but false knowledge of young school-teachers, and they all contributed to the work of destruction." "In those days, Faith will fall very low, and it will be preserved in some places only, in a few cottages and in a few families which God has protected from disasters and wars." April 12, 1820: "I had another vision of the great tribulation. It seems to me that a concession was demanded from the clergy which could not be granted. I saw many older priests, especially one, who wept bitterly. A few younger ones were also weeping. But others, and the lukewarm among them, readily did what was demanded. It was as if people were splitting into two camps." October 22, 1822: "Very bad times will come when non-Catholics will lead many people astray. A great confusion will result. I saw the battle also. The enemies were far more numerous, but the small army of the faithful cut down whole rows (of enemy soldiers). During the battle, the Blessed Virgin stood on a hill, wearing a suit of armor. It was a terrible war. At the end, only a few fighters for the just cause survived, but the victory was theirs." Blessed Catherine Emmerich. View attachment 3730
But Blessed Catherine is right , a Great, Good and Gentle Pope will come, one who is very strong and who will set, under Mary's Mantle, aright all these great evils that have fallen upon us. This one will be the very apple of Mary's eye. The wolves, the many wolves who have entered and who seem to have taken control of God sheepfold's will be evicted. In the hour of greatest Darkness a Great Light will shine. Satan will be Defeated and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart will come.
But we must prepare for Martyrdom with false Cardinals and Bishops being at the very head of the hunt.
My butt hurts from sitting on this fence. Has anyone heard anything more about when the Apostolic Exhortation is going to be released? I too have a lot of worries, but I am holding my tongue until I see what the Pope actually is going to say formally. We don't have to live by any offhand comments he makes, but we do have to follow him if he makes a pronouncement on faith or morals. Essentially I think that both sides of the argument here are loyal to and agree on basic Catholic teaching. The Pope can't let divorced and remarried or non-Catholics receive Holy Communion whether it is directly, or through a backdoor method like letting the bishops decide the issue for themselves. The only difference here is that one group is saying he will never do this in a million years and the other is saying he might. Yes I know there are some rogue elements out there who actively want this to happen, but I don't detect that much on this forum. For the most part we are orthodox Catholics. So why don't we just all hang tight and see what happens? If the Pope doesn't change anything then the side who is worked up about that can ease up. If he does change things then the side who has been saying he will never do it can revisit their thinking. What I see here is a lot of very good Catholics each defending the Bride of Christ the best way they know how. I would invite especially those who want to leave the forum to hold off a short while. Padraig is a good man. I think all members here know he is not trying to lead people astray.
Dear Ignacio, I hear you. This questioning of the Holy Father and the future of the church reminds me of a time when I was confronted by Catholic traditionalists who refused to attend the new order mass. (about 20 years ago) I was queried as to why I attended the new order mass. I asked these traditionalists whether they believed that Our Lord was really present in the Blessed Eucharist at the new order masses? They answered.... yes! Their reasoning being, that Catholic priests’ are validly ordained (this is an undeniable truth) and so the presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is valid. However, they added that the new order mass is an atrocity and unacceptable to true and faithful Catholics? I feebly replied.... 'that if my Lord is there, I will be there for Him'. This seemed to satisfy them however I don’ think I changed their views. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will not leave my Lord alone in what is considered an atrocity by some, be they right or wrong! How could anyone leave Him there to grieve alone? I will adore Our Lord Jesus with all my being at every mass that I attend and I will adore Him reverently while He remains prisoner in the tabernacle no matter what is said or done or by whom. Maybe I am naive but I believe no matter what; the Lord will not abandon me or us.
I fear that anyone looking to see if Pope Francis' Apostolic Exhortaation is 'acceptable' in their eyes is already in danger of losing the faith (hopefully only temporarily). Jesus gave us Peter to lead us and Francis will help us to remain faithful to Him.
Who says the Lord will not abandon us. I know he promised He would be with His Church to the end of time but he also promised that he would disown those who disowned Him. "If you love me keep my word." He entrusted His word to Peter and his successors. Pope Francis is the keeper of His word. His word is good enough for me. If he has done something wrong tell me. Otherwise why do you strike him? As Mac says, Pope Francis is the Vicar of Christ. More than any other priest he is present to us 'in persona Christi'. How can someone who calls himself Catholic disown this personhood and not risk Jesus relinquishing ownership of his soul. I have no distrust of Pope Francis, no suspicion of ulterior motives to sabotage the truth and dismantle the Church. He has my full support and my loyalty. Even if some of his hopes need revision how can anyone here claim that he will make mistakes that will take centuries to put right. In my opinion this is not only arrant nonsense but arrogance at its worst. His opponents take great pleasure in quoting (or rather misquoting) his "who am I to judge.." Yet at every turn they judge and condemn our Holy Father. I want nothing to do with them. I want to follow Francis who, I believe, follows Christ. That is my raison d'etre; to follow Christ. In essence those who accuse the Pope of ulterior motives accuse him of deception: they call him a liar. That is not a sin I would have upon my soul.
This thread Priest scared to talk Pope who has plan to destroy church People crying wolf on things that MIGHT happen
I'm almost sure I read somewhere on this forum that if we proclaim the pope as being false and continue to receive communion, then we excommunicate ourselves. Perhaps someone can correct me?
BC, great post. I really don't know myself. Maybe, if no one replies, shoot a question to EWTN, ask the experts or Catholic Answers. I don't think this is a light matter myself !
People are misunderstanding what others are saying. No one here has said the Pope is false. We all agree he is validly elected and is in fact the real Pope. Just because some are questioning some of the things he is saying and doing doesn't mean they are judging him or that they are unloyal to the Church. I hate how the word "judging" is thrown around. Popes in the past have promoted heresy. It is a fact. Why is it not possible that this Pope could as well? I am not saying he is, I am saying it is possible. Those of you putting the Pope on a pedestal are ignoring history.
Heidi, maybe we are not seeing the same thing, but I think that is exactly what is happening on this thread. And that is what is so disturbing. In my opinion, this thread has "jumped the shark"! (a little more colloquial than "heterodoxy" or "orthopraxis," but you can still google it ). I will continue to pray for all of the good men and women on this Forum, for our Church and for our Pope.
I don't think anyone here is saying Pope Francis is not the legitimate Pope. I don't think even Aviso said that (though perhaps I am wrong about that). Some are saying that Pope Francis is a "bad" Pope. This could be possible. But I'm balancing on the fence with Praetorian and others right now. I don't think it is clear whether Pope Francis is a "bad" Pope or whether he is just a confusing Pope in that he is vague and leaves many things open to interpretation. I do know that some of his Bishop selections have been terrible, but even John Paul II was less than stellar in this regard (this is where Pope Benedict XVI excelled). We don't have to worry that the Pope will teach heresy officially. The Holy Spirit would not allow this to happen. (Well, if a Pope did, we'd be forced to re-examine the process that led to him becoming Pope, because something must have been off) What we could have to worry about is that, through disciplinary laxity and wink-wink signals, the Pope will allow what should not be allowed. In any case, we must remain with the Church, and pray. There is a mystery here - Pope Benedict XVI felt called to resign...so what is going on here?
Found it! (From the K. Bowring thread) "This is in contradiction to Church teaching and is self excommunication. MDM followers still attend mass and receive Holy Communion while rejecting the Holy Vicar of Christ - which is a mortal sin."
Yes, the MDM followers did not believe that Pope Francis was a legitimate Pope, but that Pope Benedict XVI was still the legitimate Pope. That would fall under schism, which does cause automatic excommunication. Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or the refusal to be in communion with members of the Church who are in communion with him (CIC 751).
