Thank you for weighing in Padraig. It is very much appreciated. (One might otherwise get the impression that a minority viewpoint is unwelcome at MOG.)
I read this story of this humble and trusting servant of Jesus Christ and it quite honestly shamed me as I thought of the nonsense going in in this thread. This priest, this situation in the this part of this crazy world is the reality of most lives on this planet. I can't help but notice and admire how this priest is living the admonition of the Holy Father in a literal sense being a "field hospital" to the wounded. Despite the hate, the differences, and the depravity of it all what does he do - he focuses on LOVE; he brings Jesus to ALL and he does not stop and ask are you Catholic, are you gay, are you fill in the blank. No, he asks NOTHING of them and only cones to serve them and is the arms, legs- the Physical body of Christ and his Mercy. All I can say is thank you Lord for this humble servant and please forgive me and help me in my own community mirror Your Love like this servant of yours. http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...uslims-seleka-christians-father-bernard-kinvi
Amazing saint of a man. Miker, I was taught to love the sinner and hate the sin. We are all sinners. The day the church stops hating the sin is the day I leave.
So was I and I guess that us the rub of this entire thread and this entire synod scrap I also found this recently post by Charlie to be quite relevant: http://charliej373.wordpress.com I found this section especially compelling: Our prosperity has dimmed our love and so, once again, we must tread the way of the Cross. Temporally, I do not know, even among those I love, who will perish and who will survive this Storm. What I do know is that all who abandon themselves to Christ through love for their children and their neighbor, resolving to care for those around them, to fight for a world that values all, to press on with fortitude and endure will live in my neighborhood in heaven if I live with faith to my end.
Today's post on spiritdaily: And how about this: "After more than thirty-three years of apparitions in Medjugorje, the Virgin Mary issued her first ever call to pray for the Church in her November 9 message given to to visionary Vicka in Palestrina, Italy. Italian author Antonio Socci raises alarm and asks if anyone is listening. Previously unseen for thirty-three years and four and a half months of apparitions in Medjugorje, the Virgin Mary called people to pray for the Church in her message to the visionary on Sunday in Fiuggi, Italy. Mary even said the Church is 'much in need of your prayers.'" Not sure it was actually the sole such call. But whatever: was that referring to the Synod, or the turmoil over Medjugorje (or both)? Your call. Then there is the Synod... It's not quite" cardinal against cardinal, bishop against bishop" (in the way of an prophecy from Akita, Japan, one with Church approbation), but it seems to be edging there, at least in the media, which would like nothing better than a schism. It has been intriguing, and some of it is actual news, seeing that former Pope Benedict XVI made a pointed statement on the importance of traditional family before the recent Synod, while several cardinals and bishops took stands for or against certain statements from the Synod, some that seemed aimed, in a way we have not seen in many years, at the Pope himself. It was intriguing to see the way it went down, how there are conservatives for the way the Holy Father is handling matters (such as Cardinal George Pell of Australia, now a high-ranking Vatican official) and conservatives against. Moderates and liberals have tended to side with the Holy Father's approach (although liberals in general are antagonistic to apparitions) -- if we can even tell, at this point, what position the Pope takes, for he had not even uttered any public opinion as yet on either the essential aspects of the Synod nor on Medjugorje (but rather seemed to treat the Synod as a way of airing out various views). As (conservative) columnist George Will has said, the "default reaction" of everyone these days is "outrage." As conservatives, we lament that. Perhaps we all need to wait and see what the Pope actually says. Will it come down to simply annulment reform? Or is a "revolution" (as one liberal put it) in the offing? Time will tell what is going on, and fairly soon. Stay tuned. It is good to be circumspect, and not to treat this like a political matter. In fact, it has sometimes resonated of talk radio -- both issues -- more than discernment.
The schism and split amongst the faithful is manifesting itself in one way right here in this thread. It is the devil's work and he is succeeding in getting some to question your Church, to question your Pope, to question your Faith. Don't let the evil one do that to you. Trust. Obey. Be Patient. God's time is not our time and His ways are not our ways. Trust!
Still don't understand your argument which is some kind of straw man to shoot down....."We get to go to communion because so many apostate bishops/cardinals approve?" Huh? You just invented an apostate Church without a head. Padraig, perhaps this comprehensive article written by a most wonderful Catholic psychiatrist who has treated those with homosexual attractions for decades could be beneficial in understanding this human plight. He of course has been rejected by the PC American Psychiatric Assoc. but this PC dismissal of real necessary therapy leaves so many in great emotional pain and lack of understanding of the root developmental reasons that such attention by Dr. Fitzgibbons has so greatly assisted. Unfortunately there are just too few of such doctors and so the culture has much more influence with its enabling of misery and self hatred, and stagnation in emotional maturity. His emphasis is teaching the family how to be alerted to signs at the earliest age in order to benefit the correct involvement of parents when they, esp. fathers, throw in the towel because they just cannot understand why and what to do. I've heard the Doctor interviewed and what a sincere and really dedicated Catholic man he is. He also works with anger management with the power of forgiveness and marital healing and assisted the Catholic Bishops during the crisis. The Origins and Healing of Homosexual Attractions http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=3112 Some of his work....listing from years back: http://opusbono.org/advisors/drrickfitzgibbons.html And this by the Catholic Medical Association: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=3336 Hope it helps some.....for the understanding of all.
Why is it necessary to direct the fire? I'm saying to hold your fire!!! People who are in sin, in error, or deluded by their own pride are NOT the enemy - they are the very ones we're called to love into the Truth. Not with mortar rounds of truth, but with the love that attracts a soul to Christ, who is the Truth.
"Clear and emphatic opposition" to unjust laws is certainly a duty, from within our state of life and our own mission. But "quit obsessing, pray without ceasing and focus on your own mission" is just the recipe for living the faith in this storm. Every moment focused on the increasing darkness keeps me from my actual assigned duties. When I am angry and offended, I am not capable of being the light I am called to be. When I am mindful that "He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world", and that God is on His throne and perfectly capable of sorting out this mess, I can peacefully, even joyfully, do the work in front of me.
I'm actually paid money to comfort the afflicted. Believe me, no one is celebrating a sinful lifestyle on his death bed. I go door to door as a hospice nurse helping people navigate the terrible wages of sins of the flesh. It's not my job to tell them how they ended up in such a state: they each know perfectly well. My job is to be a Christ-bearer! As often as I fall short in this mission, it's actually easier to pour out love and mercy on a stranger with physical suffering than on a family member (or cyber acquaintance!) with unseen wounds. I'm praying for the grace to translate what I'm able to do for my patients (on my best nights) into all of my interactions, where, too often, I only dispense love and mercy a teaspoon at a time.
It occurs to me that everywhere homosexuality is mentioned in the bible it is roundly and unequivocally condemned. Thus it appears to me that God has some kind of obsessive/ compulsive disorder which has resulted in a dysfunctional fixation on the subject. This I feel, may be as a result of some childhood trauma, possibly as a result of being dropped on His head as a child. Naturally the need to resolve these long standing repressive issues indicates that we can ignore God's opinions in the subject until His head trauma is sorted and press on with our very own agenda. Thanks. I hope this post is not indicative that I myself have been dropped on the head at any point. Let me know and I will seek treatment.
[/quote] Blue, It is a rare pleasure to see you aligned with the majority opinion in a thread, but don't get used to it! However, even though i disagree with most of BrianK's posts on this thread, i think it is very wrong to make personal comments and pseudo diagnoses (sp?). Stick with the topic, play the ball and not the player...etc etc etc... none of know what stands behind anyone we address on this forum, or what they face when they log off. If we can't help someone then why label them? Blue H- i love you. Brian K - I love you.
Maybe that's the difference between us then kathy, I don't get angry and offended. Chalk it up to a horribly abusive, terrifying, starving childhood - I have found peace and I don't give it up easily. Sure, I've been a bit rattled or unsure at times but always, always take it to the cross. I know God's got this all under control but that doesn't mean we can't pay attention to what's going on in our Church. Maybe sensitive souls who are easily shaken should not read these threads or the headlines in the news. But one shouldn't assume that's true for everyone.
There is nothing wrong with paying attention. These are dark days, and the way has been paved for us by Saints who faithfully navigated dark days.
You mis-read my post. I said I have not met anyone who has introduced themselves as 'a heterosexual' person because that is the natural order of things. The homosexual orientation or same sex attraction (SSA) is not of the natural order. It is an inclination towards disorder (CCC2538) This is the truth taught by Scripture, Magisterium and Tradition. This Church is called to proclaim the truth in season and out of season irrespective of the prevailing culture. The Church must remain resolute in proclaiming the truth because Jesus its head is The Way, The Truth and The Life. The truth is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. It is the truth that sets people free. And those with SSA have a right to hear the liberating truth of the Gospel in order be set free from the bondage of disordered attractions. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. There are many who reject Church teaching and are even hostile to it. There are many who give thanks that the Church proclaims the truth. Former lesbian on why it’s ‘cruel’ for Church leaders to go soft on same-sex relationships. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/f...l-for-church-leaders-to-go-soft-on-same-sex-r
How can there be when it goes against the very nature of what God created man and women to be? Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered (CCC2357). No one, absolutely no one is happy in mortal sin. Mortal sin leads to everlasting separation.
ETA, Here is a summary of the preliminary synod report by Bishop Athanasius Shneider in regards to your question about the "straw men" I invented": In fact the bishops who support Holy Communion for “divorced remarried” are the new Pharisees and Scribes because they neglect the commandment of God, contributing to the fact that out of the body and of the heart of the “divorced remarried” continue to “proceed adulteries” (Math 15: 19), because they want an exteriorly “clean” solution and to appear “clean” as well in the eyes of those who have power (the social media, public opinion). However when they eventually appear at the tribunal of Christ, they will surely hear to their dismay these words of Christ: “Why are you declaring my statutes and taking my covenant in your mouth? Seeing you hate instruction, and cast my words behind you, … when you have been partaker with adulterers” (Ps 50 (49): 16-18). The final Relatio of the Synod also unfortunately contains the paragraph with the vote on the issue of Holy Communion for “divorced remarried”. Even though it has not achieved the required two third of the votes, there remains nevertheless the worrying and astonishing fact that the absolute majority of the present bishops voted in favor of Holy Communion for the “divorced and remarried”, a sad reflection on the spiritual quality of the catholic episcopacy in our days. It is moreover sad, that this paragraph which hasn’t got the required approval of the qualitative majority, remains nevertheless in the final text of the Relatio and will be sent to all dioceses for further discussion. It will surely only increase the doctrinal confusion among the priests and the faithful, being in the air, that Divine commandments and Divine words of Christ and those of the apostle Paul are put at the disposal of human decision making groups. One Cardinal who openly and strongly supported the issue of Holy Communion for “divorced and remarried” and even the shameful statements on homosexual “couples” in the preliminary Relatio, was dissatisfied with the final Relatio, and declared impudently: “The glass is half-full”, and analogously he said that one has to work that next year at the Synod it will be full. We must believe firmly that God will dissipate the plans of dishonesty, infidelity and betrayal. Christ holds infallibly the rudder of the boat of His Church in midst of such a big storm. We believe and trust in the very ruler of the Church, in Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the truth.
To 'stand up for the truth' about the sinfulness of homosexual behaviour or the permanence of 'sacramental marriage' is not not easy in the culture in which we live. Those who hold these eternal truths not only at present face ridicule but will face outright persecution in a world that has lost all moral foundations and is sinking fast into the quaqmire of moral relativism. Mercy cannot be divorced from truth. "What therefore God has joined together (let not man put asunder)". All of these issues have a common origin - the desire to behave in whatever way I want, to have it both ways - to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Where have we heard that before? God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die".
