Times are getting really tough. Lives are being lost. If these people knocked at my door, I would gladly let them in. Thank God for those who protect us.
trouble is MC, what those officers did is in violation of the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution. what they did was technically illegal, which is why it is a dangerous precedent. there was a legitimate threat with the bombers, but next time it might not be a legitimate threat and will probably lead to abuse of power. this opens a door that I have no doubt will be abused in the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Mary's Child, the point is not would you or would you not let them in, but a total disregard on the part of the authorities to the laws and Constitution - it requires a court order for property and personal search, including the valid reason to do that. Search for the bomber could be a valid reason or it may not be. It is a very bad precedent and if it is not challenged in court it unties the hands of the authorities legally as well
Insearch, 20 years ago here a little boy was playing on his bike, he lived down the road. He went missing. His parents were distraught. The neigbours knew of a man in the area and they were begging the police to search his property to go in. The police said they couldn't because of not having a warrant etc.. The little boy was sexually abused and murdered. Wrapped in a black plastic bag and placed in a bin like he was nothing. The man that the neigbours accused had indeed done it. He could have been stopped. Sometimes, when one can prove that it is done in the best interests possible and to save a life, it should be wavered. I see his mum about today. She never regained the light in her eyes..
This is so sad but I keep telling family members that we need to be prepared spiritually it we're ever put in concentrations camps here in the US. You know the Jews in Germany never thought it could be possible in their times. I feel that people think the same thing here. Once financial collapse occurs it's probably will be very quick for evil to set up power and begin persecuting Christians. Of course I love my doomsday predictions! God Bless!
The police did not want to get an order - in situations like this getting the search warrant is relatively fast - as it is on gettjng the court order for blood transfusion for a Jehova's minor in the hospital. At least it should be.
It wasn't that easy then Insearch. They did search the house a few hours later. But it was too late. The little lad was riding his new bike that he got for his birthday. This bike was found in the lift where the man lived. If it was my child, I wouldn't care about warrants etc, would you if you had the power to make these decisions?
Look what happened at 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings in London. As a law abiding citizen I have no problem allowing them in if it will keep us all safer. Not to be used as harrassment though, as I said, with good reason, or to save a life etc, but they need to show this. And a decision that comes from the top etc..
Sorry PS, I didn't see this until now. Thank you, I am in the UK, so don't have great knowledge of these laws but was assuming that it would be akin to us getting warrants etc.. The problem we now face is that we were under threat. I don't even think these two man acted alone though they say they did. The fact that our police are having to do this shows the world that we are living in, it is awful, yes I agree, but what else can be done? How else do we keep our people save in the light of all this and where speed and surprise are what is needed?
If it would be my child I would rash to that house MYSELF and not wait for the police and I would, probably, strangle that man with my hands, at least that how I feel it...
Things are getting pretty bad too I agree. If men are arrested over here and their finger prints are taken, but they are then not charged or found not guilty or something, their finger prints remain on record for 100 years even though they don't have a criminal record. That is wrong. There are many things that are wrong with our system. In the light of the bombing etc, I don't know how else it can be dealt with to ensure that there are no bombs planted elsewhere and with as little causalities as possible.
I guess they would have been with an officer by then, when a child is missing, a lot of extensive reports are done etc, your house is searched all this is going on, before they leave. One can get very frustrated with all the questioning that seems to be taking forever with more minutes lost etc.. It only came out afterwards about neighbors talking to the police etc and telling them. I don't even think the parents are aware. Crime has many victims.
Yes that is very true also Insearch, I have to agree with that, do any of us really know how to deal with this in the best way forward for all? Governments are a law unto themselves unfortunately and can wheedle themselves out of better fixes than Houdini ever could.
I agree with what everyone has been saying here about this. A few observations: The house to house search by police to locate and apprehend the terrorist was unnecessary and overzealous to say the least. Generally, it is less dangerous to apprehend the suspect as he tries to slip out of the city or is recognized by a citizen who reports him to the authorities when he is hiding. As the suspect is a teenager, it is unlikely they would get very far before being captured. However, this situation was an excuse to do a live dry run of martial law. The government authorities now have a live case study in which to evaluate their own performance. Believe me, they will be better at it next time. The citizens of the USA are being manipulated to accept this behavior by the police/government authorities -- and as others here have observed -- all of this is in the name of "security." I expect, we will see more of this as situations arise in the future where local martial law is exercised. The more citizens see it happen, the more normalized it will become to them. After all, "never let a crisis go to waste." The older brother/terrorist was gunned down in a hail of bullets that we have not seen since Bonny and Clyde were machine gunned to death in an ambush in the 1930s. Yes, these terrorists were dangerous, but the police were either incompetent or overly eager to kill the guy as he supposedly suffered over 80 wounds (gunshots and shrapnel). I believe the latter as the authorities wanted/needed to kill the guy as he probably had information they did not want to get out. Things are clearly accelerating.
Everytime a new member joins the forum I check the IP address in case they are spammers. About two years ago I checked an apllicant and found they came from the Federal COurt Buildings in Los Angeles. On further checking I found it was a, 'Spidey' from Homeland Security. Spidey's are remote monitoring programmes posing as human apllicatns in order to pass back information to the main frame compter. In others words every post on the forum would ahve been monitored and recorded. I subsequently found this SPidey had been sent as part of a huge Federal tracking project of the entire internet. Not just 'supsects' but everyone and everyone. About six months later I tracked another attempted spidey down to Norwegian Police Head Quarters...although issuing from another country i beleive it was an effort by the same authority. Make no mistake about it we are all of us being monitored. ...and if they can find time to monitor a simple religious site like his they are chaecking up on everyone. But why a Catholic religious site? Plus this is an international site, not as such a US one, though the server is US based. But what can we do? It makes you feel helpless.
Even though I completely disagree with the monitoring that is done, I think they may try to keep track of a site like this because at times there are anti-government sentiments in some of the threads. Just because it is a Catholic religious site probably gives them more reason to monitor in their minds. Remember, a lot of anti-government radicals do things in the name of God (not that I think this place are religious political radicals of course but trying to get inside their minds). The 9/11 terrorists is just one example. There have been a number of home grown radical religious groups also who were very anti-government. They probably want to monitor a site like this to make sure it isn't like those.
