I agree, we shouldn't be talking about the "Consecration" in the dedicated Garabandal thread, so hopefully, folks will find this thread. I certainly found this article compelling and convincing on the 3rd secret this morning. How Our Lady Saved the World from a Nuclear War Sr. Lucia of Fatima revealed that Our Lady told her if the consecration had not been made by John Paul II, there would have been a nuclear war. Article: How Our Lady Saved the World from a Nuclear War| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com) The article is there for all to read, it was posted once already. Now, back to the Consecration, I agree with the good Father here from this 2014 article (Father Gruner, Fatima Priest, Fatima Crusader fatima.org) seems like a good and holy man. The Sad Case of the Fatima Priest Posted on March 28, 2014 by Father Joe QUESTION: What is wrong with Fr. Nicholas Gruner and The Fatima Crusader magazine? He seems to be very holy, intelligent, and sincere–not anything like the “nut” people make him out to be. His main message seems to be that the consecration of Russia requested at Fatima was never performed properly and that humanity could be headed for a chastisement. RESPONSE: Compliance with a request to consecrate Russia and/or the world remains with the judgment of the Holy See. Such has been done and it can be repeated. However, it does not rest with Fr. Gruner or with you and me. We can certainly dedicate ourselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Sacred Heart of Jesus, but such also demands fidelity in our state of life, as well as respect to the Church and the Pope. Fr. Gruner proposes to direct what is best for the world and the Church while he cannot even get his own house in order. The Soviet Union fell and many nations knew freedom. But faith is not magic. Sin still exists in Russia (just ask the Ukraine), around the world and here in the U.S. where our religious liberty is threatened by the current administration and a culture of death. Any utopian view or interpretation of Fatima and its fruits are arguably not in sync with Catholic or Christian eschatology. More: The Sad Case of the Fatima Priest | Blogger Priest And then, once before, I spoke about, however good intentions it is, the Fatima Center (and Fatima.org) appeared to have become real moneymakers. I saw that this money, all or in part, was put to good use in charity, so I figure that their message has resonated. One more reference: Fr. Nicholas Gruner: The Man Who Harms Our Lady of Fatima - staycatholic Then, this book whiche apparently delves into a lot of this. Fatima Mysteries: Mary’s Message to the Modern Age: Gorny, Grzegorz, Rosikon, Janusz: 9781621641636: Amazon.com: Books Fatima Mysteries (ignatius.com) "The tragedies foretold in Fatima did not come to an end with the demise of Communism. The crisis has not been resolved. From a certain point of view it is still as serious as it ever was, as it is primarily a crisis of faith, hence a moral and social crisis." — Pope Benedict XVI So, without totally repeating that which was in the Garabandal thread.... but leaving references, discussion on this issue can take place. That first article on this, certainly is a good starter and seems compelling to me that "Consecration" did occur. I have also read "counter-views" definitely, they are at youtube I believe besides articles.
Apparently, this is a popular book, The Fourth Secret of Fatima: Antonio Socci: 9781930278776: Amazon.com: Books I would need to know more before commenting on this, the premise sounds exciting.
Sister Lucia said that the 1984 consecration was accepted by heaven. If we are to believe Socci we must understand that both John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger were lying or at least deliberately deceiving us. Can we believe this of those two saintly men? Days after the consecration there was a massive explosion in a Soviet weapons storage facility which crippled their (I think) Northern fleet’s capability and forced the soviets to the negotiating table. I’ll try to find the link, it’s on Wiki and doesn’t mention the consecration. I do see a link between John Paul’s consecration and the collapse of the Soviet Union edited: the linked article in TinMN’s post has the account of the explosion. It also mentions other near-misses attributed to OLF.
Me too Clare. I don't shy away from conspiracy theories as a rule because many of them are painfully true. But I shy away fro this one about a false Lucy and two good popes lying. If just doesn't add up. And the soviet union did fall apart. However....Russia has not converted to the Catholic faith. On the other hand Putin seems to uphold traditional values with more passion than any of the western presidents and PMs.
We took a Black Sea cruise about ten years ago. So many new churches were being built. I went to Mass in a fine Catholic Church in (I think) Odessa. It had a window with an image of JPII. Elsewhere in the Ukraine we saw many new churches paid for by the newly wealthy. One such was a restored ruin in a field that had been an important church with the standing of, say, Canterbury Cathedral (now the pre-eminent church in the Anglican communion), or so we were told. Seeing photos of the wreck it had been in soviet times the restoration looked miraculous. In a grocery store in Odessa I was able to buy a wall decoration for Easter with Christian symbols. This would not be possible in the UK.
This is very helpful information. Boots on the ground so to speak. How curious that the narrative has been "bad russia!" In the US over the last 5 years.
I happen to think most popes were constrained in what they could do. JPII had to ask permission if he could mention Russia. Petty odd for a pope. Benedict asked we pray he doesn't flee because of the wolves. I don't think we can understand what's going on at the Vatican unless we realize ecclesial freemasonry is not just tinfoil hattery. Regarding the third secret, I think Mary gave us two futures. In the first we did what she requested, and we would have peace. In the second, we will have Russia spread her errors (godless governments), the pope will be persecuted and nations will be annihilated. Either way Russia will be consecrated and her Immaculate Heart will triumph. In Akita, Benedict said that the prophecy was just like in Fatima. Akita said the devil will enter the Church and we will see a mini civil war in the Church. It will end with a fiery chastisement. It mentioned a sign of Jesus that we will see--maybe the warning/miracle of Garabandal? I really think we are in the second future.
This is going off-course a bit but: "Kremlin asks for apology after Bill O'Reilly calls Putin 'a killer'" https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2017/...logy-after-Bill-O-Reilly-calls-Putin-a-killer Okay, I remember when O'Reilly said that to Trump. Not in the best of taste but there is plenty for me to be wary of about Russia all the same. As for Trump, I think he did best in trying to pursue peace and it is other countries that have continued to buy gas from Russia via the Nordstar pipeline, not the US under Trump.
"JPII had to ask permission if he could mention Russia." I can relate, this thread actually might have been better entitled "Consecration of Russia" thread...but I didn't quite feel comfortable saying this exactly, at the same time, saying "Fatima Consecration" also, takes a bit of knowledge on the topic, not a consecration to Our Lady. Also just saying "Consecration of Russia" I thought might not actually even be clear enough, maybe one needs to make a point that this is about Fatima.
I knew I had read elsewhere about this Consecration lately, it certainly doesn't help if someone in the SSPX is saying it needs to be done. And this is from the Spring of this year. Russia is not converted nor converting! (Part I) PUBLISHED ON April 13, 2021 By their fruits you shall know them” (Matthew 7:16). Really, can we see that Russia converted to the Faith (even not to the Catholic, but to some “Christian” one) or, at least, converted from Communism? I know that there are tendencies in the contemporary West and, surprisingly to me, even in Traditionalist circles, to consider that present-day Russia is undergoing some sort of religious and “Traditionalist” political and cultural revival. As an example, I will take an article of such a respectful author as Robert Siscoe, that I read some years ago in a copy of the Remnant newspaper, taken by me in an SSPX chapel in Great Britain. The main message of this article was that today’s Russia is almost traditional materially and she need only essence (the Catholic Faith) to make the conversion formal or final. Unfortunately, with all respect for Mr. Siscoe, I must say that such a vision of today’s Russia is no more than wishful thinking. Unfortunately, I must categorically disagree with him, because the reality in which we live in Russia now is so far from Mr. Siscoe’s picture, that sometimes it seems to me a bad dream. No, Russia is not converted nor converting, even materially! On the contrary, it is becoming worse and worse, comparing with the situation 15–20 years ago. In recent years, Russia is going through not spiritual, but real Soviet renaissance, that can’t promise any good to us. Part I continued at: Russia is not converted nor converting! (Part I) – Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (consecrationrussia.org) Russia is not converted nor converting! (Part II) PUBLISHED ON May 13, 2021 Thousands and thousands of streets of Russian cities, towns and villages are still named after Lenin and other Communist criminals and mass murderers (not only Russian, moreover). You can only look to the map of any – any! – Russian city, town or village on the Internet to understand that! When propositions to rename them appear, usually they are opposed under the pretext that renaming them is “expensive”. It is not true; it’s cheap, really. And in addition it is an hypocrisy, because, for example, when some people damaged the big statue of Lenin in St. Petersburg on the square before the Finland train station (remarkably, for the cladding of this square, the stones that were used were from the St. Petersburg Catholic cemetery which was destroyed by the Bolsheviks), this statue was restored “in all its splendor”, using millions of our taxpayers’ money. On the contrary, when there are even modest attempts to install something glorifying the heroes of the anti-Communist resistance, these attempts meet with hostility. For example, recently there was an attempt to hang a small plaque on the building in which one of the leaders of the White movement — who fought against the Bolsheviks during the Civil War — Admiral Kolchak, lived. This plaque only said that Kolchak was a Russian officer and explorer. There were not even any words about his leadership of the White movement and fight against Bolshevism. But, anyway, pro-Communist organizations, after many times vandalizing that plaque, went to court, and this plaque was eliminated by the court and authorities’ decision. So, in the maps of Russian cities it is practically impossible to find any streets dedicated to heroes of the anti-Communist resistance or even Tzars and Imperial times personalities, the same with monuments. If there are any, the number is so small that it’s only an exception, confirming a rule. Part II continued at: Russia is not converted nor converting! (Part II) – Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (consecrationrussia.org) That second argument seems really weak to me, some people just like to argue. And see how all of this just lends confusion to the issue. Also, this is this SSPX MI (Militia Immaculata) saying this. Nothing is copyrighted but I'm not sure if it is fair to say this. The Militia Immaculata was established by St. Maximilian Kolbe in 1917, the same year as the apparitions at Fatima.
Even Lifesitenews ran an article in 2017: Cardinal Burke urges consecration of Russia in manner ‘requested by Our Lady’ 'The call of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart in accord with Her explicit instruction remains urgent.' Mon Oct 9, 2017 - 8:12 am EDT IRVING, Texas, October 9, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — “It is evident that the consecration (of Russia) was not carried out in the manner requested by Our Lady,” said Vatican Cardinal Raymond Burke in his keynote address marking the highlight and conclusion of the Fatima Centennial Summit held over the weekend. “I do not doubt for a moment the intention of Pope St. John Paul II to carry out the consecration on March 25, 1984,” said Cardinal Burke. He noted that Sister Lucia stated that “Our Lady had accepted it.” He continued nonetheless, “Recognizing the necessity of a total conversion from atheistic materialism and communism to Christ, the call of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart in accord with Her explicit instruction remains urgent.” More: Cardinal Burke urges consecration of Russia in manner ‘requested by Our Lady’ - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com) Now, that I read up on this some, I still think he's wrong.
