So you are saying that we know Our Lady certainly told Conchita she would be around for the miracle, soley because Conchita in 1974 answered the following: Q. How will you announce the Miracle? A. Most definitely I will call Joey... I know that if the Blessed Mother wants you there, you will be there." I really cannot see how you can find that certainty here. Your reading of the text has already failed hasn't it? Joey is unfortunately now with God. Now if you say the above cannot be understood to mean that Our lady ever told Conchita that Joey would be alive at the time (and I agree) ... then on what basis do you say the opposite wrt Conchita? "If the Blessed Mother wants you there, you will be there" does not to my ears reflect a clear promise from Mary (but only a desire) that Conchita would be alive at the time. Now if Conchita had instead said "If the Blessed Mother says you will be there, you will be there" then I would agree with you. Sometimes Seers misunderstand politely ambiguous responses from their Apparitions by reason of their own desires and personal limitations (as do we all). If Mary knew Conchita would not live to see the date given her...would it be helpful to tell young Conchita that directly, or would it be better to be more ambiguous by saying something like "Yes, I would want you to be there." Polite ambiguation when a person has no real right to know something is not lying - even when we know it is likely the questioner's enthusiasms will cause them to draw immediate erroneous conclusions (which may be self-corrected upon later reflection or maturity). We cannot even be sure that Mary herself even knew the destiny of Conchita at the time. So I believe my reading is at least as probable as your one. And if there is reasonable doubt wrt this point of evidence then I personally wouldn't base my whole belief in Garabandal or not on it. Then again, if there is other corroborating evidence for your reading of the above interview then my position may be completely wrong! I am not aware of any though.
I realise this might be a 'kiss of death' for BH but I do appreciate his rigorous logic in his posts! Since 'local' posted the original post in this thread, I felt it to be a valid suggestion. I have come to love everything about Garabandal and am quite sure that the apparitions there were authentic but I am equally sure that we need to be careful about some of the reported comments made by the children at the time of the apparitions. Partly because the reporting might not be totally accurate and partly because the children were responding generally to questions put to them and could not be expected to respond in a totally unambiguous way. I believe their responses have often been taken in a too simplistic way. I do think that the death of Conchita prior to the Miracle is possible and that it could cause many previous believers to stop believing in Garabandal. For me, it would not make the slightest difference as it would not conflict with any formal prediction made by the children, as BH makes clear.
"We cannot even be sure that Mary herself even knew the destiny of Conchita at the time" , are you serious ? are we takling about the Mother of God and the Church, Queen over all things, called also Queen of Prophets, possibly not aware of the destiny of one her seer ? with all due Respect or Garabandal is false then no need to talk about our Lady there or Garabandal is true then this quote is de facto impossible, thank you. Aviso
Thank you for your reply, it was for my own research only, I remember you now, thank you again. PS : A copy of The original documents from Father Laffineur (1961 to 1965) sent to Rome are with one of my good Friend. Aviso
Funny how people see the same thing so differently. As time went on the recollection of the seers about some things became less certain. I think one of them - it may have been Conchita - said " believe what I said then." For me it is the simple, (not simplistic but straightforward) unrehearsed early recorded answers that the girls gave that adds to their clarity and credibility. This insistance on the possibility of Conchita's death must be frustrating for those who know better and who tell us that Conchita will be alive and present to deliver notice of The Miracle. To my way of thinking such speculation serves no useful or beneficial purpose. Others obviously disagree with me as is their right....but are they right? I think not (its 3 am)
I've had a very well respected person for his gifts of discernment suggest to me that private revelations are not meant just for the individuals themselves....at least for the public ones with repercussions for the Church and the world....but first and foremost for the Church through which they are and must be filtered. The Church's appointed authorities have a grave responsibility to act for the sake of the faithful. When they do not and things are delayed and the faithful are left confused by the various negativity of such lack of responsibility and changes, toing and froing, etc., then literally, due to the respect heaven always has for individual free will of such authorities, time lines are changed and even promises given, IF the messages or prophecies are not taken seriously when they most apply, and they cannot go forth (but for exceptions given via the Mercy and patience of God to the original warnings)....not because they were false but because they were not responded to in time and through action. There is much culpability then on the part of the Church' frivolous attention towards such serious matters. Was so back in the OT as well. So this discernment was mentioned also in relation to the death of Joey Lomangino....the Church could have just waited too long to accept the plan offered by heaven itself....and human limitations in health, etc., are just that....limited in natural time....but not in heaven's original intention.
What never ceases to amaze me is how all the 'what if's' are discussed as if they actually mattered. The bottom line is Garabandal messages are the same as the Gospel message. We have to Repent. Or we will wind up in the pit of hell. And we can't talk our way out of that. Just my pennyworth.
C'mon Mac, you've got me hanging out to dry here! Now I am begging for it - you are a Jedi master at this, do you hone tthese skills at home or something? BTW where is Marien? I've heard of Kentucky (as in Kentuckyfried) but not Marien.
I suppose the beneficial purpose I see here in critically analysing the sources is precisely to help defuse the possibility of the topic of this thread from happening - which is very real if people read to much into things and therefore fall away when their misplaced faith event fails. Conchita's letter to Joey (written 1964) was pretty clear and straight forward: " St. Joseph’s’ day 1964 My dear Joseph, Just two lines to tell you the message which the Blessed Virgin gave me for you today at the pines … she told me that the voice you heard was her’s and that you shall see on the very day of the Miracle. Conchita Gonzalez." Presumably the letter above is authentic and the translation accurate. It also seems simple and unrehearsed. Yet it did not mean Joey would live to see the day (at least not from earth). Now the evidence supplied above for Conchita being there is far less clear than this. So, in the absence of further evidence, it would also seem unwise to too strongly hold that Conchita's presence is essential - lest we ourselves become casualities of the event of unbelief.
Before, I am a believer of Garabandal. But now, clouds of doubt suddenly hovered my mind just because of one passage allegedly received by Conchita from Our Lady about Extra Terrestials or Intelligent Beings. It caused me so much pain that for almost 20 years of following Garabandal, i would encounter such message that will destroy my beliefs altogether. To quote: "They are like men, tainted alike by sin, but also redeemed by Christ just like men." To my mind, redemption can never benefit anyone except man alone because he is the only creature endowed with a "human will" which was from the beginning, as in the case of Adam and Eve before their fall, was perfectly united with the Will of God. It was our human will opposing God's will that made us sin that necessitate the act of redemption. To claim that these creatures benefited from redemption is downplaying the role of the Mother of God in human salvation and Christ's death on the cross. It will mean another "Mary" from another dimension and another "Christ" with an extra-terrestial will.
, Soooo funny, your killing me here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really don't even know how you managed to soften Padraig this last time to tell you the truth, cause he was like - this is it, he's gone and he's gone for good and ain't nobody changing my mind so don't even ask.
Tomdarius, I don't know where you got the above quotes from Garabandal messages. It all sounds gobbledegook to me. Never heard anything like that before and would consider it to be someone taking the Mick as they say, or to put it another way, pulling your leg, or winding you up, or joking. Any one of these last scenarios. Not anything I would believe to be genuine from anywhere on this planet. God bless.
Sorry Tomdarius. It seems it is true. See 'Garabandal' book pages 160-161. This information was given by Our Lady on Dec 20 1962. Also posted on whatisgarabandal august 29 2007.
I'll second Joes remark. It's true. I think I may have read a post from Glenn on the (excellent) Garbandal Facebook page. Doesn't damage my belief in Garabandal one iota. Look into the starry sky at night and it's difficult to imagine that we are alone, all alone in the immenseness of the universe. From what I've read, and I stand to be corrected though I'm pretty sure I'm right, Our Lady told Conchita of two places in the universe where intelligent life exists.
Nobody else changed Padraig's mind, he changed it himself . Matthew 18:21: Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Yes I agree and I believe. Unti now I have always rubbished such notions. No more. "The whole of creation is groaning in one gigantic act of giving birth." (ST Paul) Not just earth. The whole of creation. And scripture reveals Jesus as the One who holds seven stars in His hand. How awesome. How mighty. Nothing is impossible with God.l
Well shiver me timbers !! I won't write Garabandal off because it appears Conchita allegedly said there are aliens in on the Salvation train. Will just have to wait and see if there is some other explanation to ET and Garabandal.
