I must admit that when I read and see images of some of the things done in the name of ecumenism (more particularly interfaith dialogue) during Pope JPII's pontificate, I feel rather disturbed.
I think the thing about Pope St John Paul was that I had great trust and confidence in him. So that if anything he did might have seemed off I would ahve just shrugged my shoulders and though well he surely knows what he is doing and make allowances. In fact I ahve always found this to be so with all previous Popes, I and I think the huge overwhelming majority of Catholics thought, 'Well He's the Pope so it must be fine..' Moving to a postion where this is not so and we do not have immediate and total confidence can be a real cold bath , a total shock to most of us. It cerntainly has been to me.
Agreed. But we cannot have Martin Luther canonised. He was a scoundrel and a heretic. He cannot be redeemed posthumously. I will resist any attempt by the Church to set Luther up as an example of faith. That would be a lie!! The reformation stands on the issue of justification by 'faith alone'. This was the new novel doctrine that fractured the Church. Luther went to judgement before the seat of God with this as his motto. A new novel teaching that contradicted 1500 years of Church teaching. Most modern protestants were born into their faith as an accident of birth so accept sola fide as true. And millions of Catholics (especially in the Americas) have been proselytised by the protestant sects and have left the one true Church of Christ. This in itself is an indictment of the present state of the Catholic Church. It would also be a novelty to call them churches. Christ has but one Church. They are, however, our separated brethren.
It is funny in one sense that even their different Bible versions contradict the main article of the protestant reformation that man is justified by faith alone. James 2v24 No wonder Martin Luther called the book of James the 'straw epistle'.
Luther added words to Holy Scripture to satisfy his interpretation. The most important example of dogmatic influence in Luther’s version is the famous addition of the word alone in Rom. 3:28 (allein durch den Glauben), by which he intended to emphasize his solifidian doctrine of justification, on the plea that the German idiom required the insertion for the sake of clearness. But he thereby brought Paul into direct verbal conflict with James, who says (James 2:24), "by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone" ("nicht durch den Glauben allein"). It is well known that Luther deemed it impossible to harmonize the two apostles in this article, and characterized the Epistle of James as an "epistle of straw," because it had no evangelical character ("keine evangelische Art")
Sorry to go on about Luther. There are some Catholic (bishops) who think he is a good guy!! There may even be some on this forum who are sympathetic to his doctrines for all we know
HOW OLD IS YOUR CHURCH? If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in approximately 1520. If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII (an ex-Catholic) in the year 1534. If you are a Mennonite, Menno Simons (an ex-Catholic) created your religion in 1536. If you are a Presbyterian, John Knox (an ex-Catholic) founded your sect in Scotland in the year 1560. If you are a Congregationalist, your religion began with Robert Brown in Holland in 1582. If you are a Baptist, John Smyth created your sect in Amsterdam in 1605. If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, your church began with Michaelis Jones in New York in 1628. If you are a Quaker, your religion began with George Fox in 1652. If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, Samuel Seabury created your sect in the American colonies in the 17th century, as an offshoot of the Church of England. If you are Amish, Jacob Amman created your religion in 1693, as an offshoot of the Mennonites. If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744. If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your sect in London in 1774. If you are a Mormon (“Latter Day Saints”), your religion comes from Joseph Smith, who revealed it in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1829. If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, your religion was created by Ellen White in 1860. If you worship with the Salvation Army, William Booth started your sect in London in 1865. If you are of the “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your beliefs came from Charles Taze Russell in 1872. If you are a “Christian Scientist,” Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy devised your religion in 1879. If you belong to one of the religious organisations known as “Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," “Assemblies of God,” “United Church of Christ,” etc., your religion is one of the thousands of new sects founded by men in the last century. If you are Catholic, you know that your Church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ, the Son of God, true God and true man; and that this one true Church will exist until the end of time
Unfortunately, garabandal, the Orthodox say exactly the same thing: The Orthodox Church The Orthodox Church is the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church in which resides the fullness of Christian truth. It is holy because its head, the lord Jesus Christ, is holy and has made it the unique vehicle of sanctification; it is Catholic because it knows no limitation of time or place and encompasses within itself the entirety of Christ's Church; and it is apostolic because it alone has maintained, with unbroken continuity and without any alteration, the faith of the apostles through the ages. You will find the deeper, authentic spiritual life you are looking for in the splendid and moving worship of the Orthodox Christian Church. http://orthodoxpathway.blogspot.co.uk/
This is not entirely true. He had a correct understanding of Mary as Theotokos, Mother of God and of her perpetual virginity. All good. But he denied her power of her intercession, as well as that of the saints in general (although he did concede that Mary prayed for the Church in heaven). He recommended to his followers only to recite only the first half of the Hail Mary since it was Biblical.
Either the Catholic Church is right or the Orthodox Church is right. Both cannot be right. So one of them has to be in 'error' with regard to being the Church that Christ established. We have a special relationship with the Orthodox since they are not heretics but schismatics. I do believe unity with the Orthodox will come first and then the lungs of the East and West will blow in full force. Then there will be recovery with the protestant sects who will eventually come into full communion with the Catholic Church. The Unity of the Church will occur one day because Christ wills it. CCC (322-324) "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."
Jesus Christ founded a visible Church. He called it 'My Church'. Such wonder in two words. And debated heavily over the last 1000 years. This is a 'grave scandal' to many that a Church exists that claims to be the visible Church that Jesus Christ founded and has been in existence for nearly 2000 years. It is called the Catholic Church. One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. Either this claim is true or it is false. Protestants believe it is false (they actually believe the church is invisible). So do the Orthodox since the Great Schism of 1054. I believe the claim is true. That is why I am a Catholic and not a protestant. If I believed Luther was right and salvation was by faith alone I would become a protestant. If I believed that the true Church of Christ was Orthodox I would become an Orthodox. We have a duty to search for truth, find the truth and to proclaim the truth (in love). The true Church that Jesus Christ founded and called 'My Church' subsists within the Catholic Church. That is the teaching of the Catholic Church. This is not triumphalism but the truth. It is our duty to pray for unity as Christ commanded - 'Father that they might be one'. What was Christ telling us in this prayer?
Its true Pope Benedict said there was only one Church , by definition of the Creed this must be true. All the rest are sects then.
But with the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."
Yes the orthodox are a different kettle of fish. They resemble I think the Lefebrists in our own time. I suppose you could say Protestants are as close as neighbours whereas Orthodox like sisters and brothers. Though many of them have a much , much harsher view of us than we have of them, very much harsher.
“Saint” Martin Luther Appears at the Vatican.http://fatimaperspectives.com/fe/perspective895.asp ...By now the whole Catholic world knows that on October 13, 2016, the anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, Pope Francis ignored the Madonna and celebrated Martin Luther instead before an audience of Lutherans on an “ecumenical pilgrimage” at the Paul VI Audience Hall. ... Francis will participate in an ecumenical “prayer service” with some of the fake Lutheran clerics who purport to preside over “Lutheran Churches” in the Lutheran World Federation. These bodies, of course, are merely human organizations that owe their origin to a maniacal enemy of the Church and the papacy who violated his priestly vows, married a nun, was a foul-mouthed drunkard, and was excommunicated after spewing forth a stream of errors anathematized infallibly by the Council of Trent. ...What can one say about a Pope who honors Luther rather than the Madonna on the very anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun, and who tells an audience of Lutherans that they can be “chosen” and “forgiven” without the helps of the very Church of which Luther was a sworn enemy? We can say that we are witnessing the very crisis Our Lady predicted in the Third Secret of Fatima, that precious message-warning to the world which the great Miracle She obtained for us authenticates beyond any doubt. Now is the time that She foretold.
Any truth in the rumour that Pope Francis will announce the abolition of purgatory during his press conference en route to Sweden? "Saint" Marin Luther wasn't a big fan of indulgences.
So much did he despise it's clear refutation of his novel interpretation, Luther was going to remove the NT book of James from the canon of Scripture entirely, but his fellow "reformers" convinced him otherwise.
I would become an agnostic, because that would mean Christ lied when He promised His Church to send the Holy Spirit, to lead Her to all Truth, and gave Her authority to loose and bind. If evangelicals convince me the Church fell into error, they don't make of me a "born again" Christian, they make of me an agnostic; if the Catholic Church is wrong in this, then Christ would have been a liar, and our belief in vain. Thankfully the Church IS His Church, and our belief is not in vain.
