So it won't take a major apostasy w/ a major chastisement to send a small remaining remnant into the underground to practice the faith prior to the Era of Peace which itself won't be able to arrive prior to the Holy Spirit "renewing the face of the earth and a recreation of man"? Such a "renewal" of the "face" of the earth would appear to necessitate quite a cleansing via the prophesied man made along with natural catastrophes leaving 2/3 of world's population dead and the remaining having to fight off disease and earth changes beyond surviving, for another huge percentage. And this has been "prophesied" not only by chosen messengers but concluded as well by world experts who project such algorithms.....even from of old as those who passed on the reasoning for earlier cleansings of the earth. The end of the world will be a "poof" experience....no heaven or earth left....and beyond just a cleansing/chastisement in order to begin again! Perhaps it's just all "relative" and "major" means having the "poof" effect of everything, and minor just means that tiny leftover remnant that survived a complete "recreation"?
I think that the major chastisement is the destruction of nearly everything and a minor chastisement will be very bad but not the destruction of nearly everything. Like the author of the page I linked above I'm not claiming to have any special prophetic charism or expertise. I am not challenging how anyone else understands Catholic prophecy, I am simply expressing how I understand it and how others like Birch and Dupont, for example, understand it. God only knows. Edited to add: The following is from Saint Hildegard of Bingen, a Doctor of the Church, on the major chastisement: "For because God would not suffer the iniquities and crimes of the people of that age, he destroyed the entire human race and all living things with the waters of the flood, except those whom he enclosed in the ark; on the changing of the sun, moon, stars, and earth away from the properties they had before the flood; and at the world’s end, fire will consume the earth to the same depth as it was penetrated by the waters’ inundation." from Liber Divinorum Operum, The Book of Divine Works by St. Hildegard of Bingen translated and introduced by Nathaniel M. Campbell. and from scripture: Revelation 20:9 (DRA) 9 And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast
Carol, is there any modern day prophets/prophecies that speak to your thinking to the end times? After all, this is how God said he would speak to the times as he has always done. To me this is a large part of accepting what I believe along with scripture. Is Birch your only guide?
I needed to read this today. It has been a terrible day. I'm sure it was fruitful but it has been crappy to endure! LOL! I'm so weak in these difficult times. My family has been through much more significant events (physically) then the ones we are experiencing now. But the betrayal, the pain and division within our own church and her people...oh, how much longer, O, Lord?
My friends and I were just asking each other the same question today, “oh, how much longer?”....please ...fix this mess!
“The punishment of the wicked you will see” From Ps 91 I am claiming this Scripture Thank you Rory and Miker
Fatima, Who do you consider to be a modern day prophet? Do you mean a prophet from the 20th century? or a prophet from the 21st century? Which modern day seers have discussed a general chronology of end times events? Desmond Birch is not a prophet. I use his book as a reference because the book contains approved prophecies and Mr. Birch has put similar prophecies from multiple seers together. This is how the book is organized for the most part. Since this text is very popular, I mention it for those reading these posts to use as a reference also. How do you see the prophecies of Our Lady of Garabandal fitting into the end times? Do you consider Conchita Gonzalez to be a modern day prophet or the other seers who witnessed this apparition of Our Blessed Mother?
I see it like Carol. After all Conchita, Father Gobbi, and Ma Esperanza explained that we are in the end times (end of an era), not the end of the world. There are 10 secrets in Medjugorje signaling that the end of an era is coming. The seers don’t say the messages are about the end of the world. So, it makes sense to me that we will experience a lesser chastisement now, compared to the one that comes before the Second Coming. We don’t know how many years it will be between the coming chastisement to the final chastisement. Also, we must not forget what St John said about the Antichrist. Before the final one, there will be many. Antichrist is among us. He has always been in the world to tempt man to go against God. It is the final one that will be the devil incarnate. I don’t believe we are there yet. And we may not be alive to ever see him. He may appear in the next century for all we know.
But in contrast to Garabandal and Medjugorje, we have the approved private revelations given to Saint Faustina by Our Lord Himself, messages which He said were meant to prepare the world for His Second Coming. The "era of Peace" was never defined by Our Lady of Fatima and the Church has never given an official interpretation of it's nature or duration. It could be yet to come. Or it could have already been fulfilled in the fact that a nuclear war was avoided during the first Cold War. In an interview, Sister Lucia stated that the 1984 Consecration prevented a nuclear war that would have taken place in 1985. As for the Antichrist, the Church Fathers and early Writers were clear that he will be one man, Jewish and will be accepted by the Jewish people as their messiah and that he will ultimately bring the nation of Israel and a large part of the world to ruin.
Since I’m a believer of Garabandal I feel the era of peace has not arrived yet. Things will get worse before the Warning. And we are seeing that today. I also believe we are just a year or 2 before the Warning. The world’s chaos is elevating at a very fast rate.
Just look at the unveiling of the hidden evils we are witnessing today. All is being revealed. This was told to Father Gobbi would happen before the illumination of conscience.
I don't believe the end of the world with the complete disappearance of the heavens and earth is a "chastisement". It is THE moment of Judgement that will apply from then on beyond and no longer including what anyone has known of the created material and defective world (first heaven) since it is gone forever. A chastisement usually means that there is time yet for those chastised to change their behavior and use whatever time is left, even if it's their last moment, to return to the truth. One could even compare the many "minor" chastisements of history....about which those who suffered through them would probably hardly call "minor"......to what is currently occurring now and for some time, all over the world, where the Christian population is literally being wiped out. These are all leading to a very "major" chastisement to arrive in the not too distant future. But what has to happen prior to the coming Era of Living in the Divine Will, is that complete purification of the remnant, converted by the Warning (beyond the proven remnant prior to the Warning) as well as the complete renewal of the face of the earth since that period is to be graced even greater than the original Garden. What comes after the Warning was shown to us by the experience of the "Nights of the Screams" in Garabandal.....nothing "minor" about what was given to those seers. When poles shift accompanied by bombardments from the cosmos, along with the shifting of traditional climates for living in particular regions of the world and what natural disasters accompany that and a whole new world grows out of what now cannot even be imagined due to such purification of everything....I would say that that awaited time must include a coming major chastisement prior to that New Era.....to the point that no one entering in will even be able to remember, or wish to after what they have gone through, in the world that went before. I would say that minor chastisements are given as a chance to reform prior to what major chastisement is to come....and there will be a major chastisement prior to the New Era as well as prior to the last moment of this finite world's existence....each to decide where one desires to spend his/her eternity.....as well as Judgement and Justice for the current worlds, at each time.....such as the flood. Satan is involved in both for his same reason....since the Garden.....to capture as many souls as possible. Or else we wouldn't be told now in current heavenly messages that there will soon be nothing left of our usual material security so that we must prepare mostly "spiritually" for having only the refuge of the Immaculate Heart to aid us at this coming major time of chastisement.
“We know that there are three comings of the Lord. The third lies between the other two. It is invisible, while the other two are visible. In the first coming he was seen on earth, dwelling among men; he himself testifies that they saw him and hated him. In the final coming all flesh will see the salvation of our God, and they will look on him whom they pierced. The intermediate coming is a hidden one; in it only the elect see the Lord within their own selves, and they are saved. In his first coming our Lord came in our flesh and in our weakness; in this middle coming he comes in spirit and in power; in the final coming he will be seen in glory and majesty.“
Fr. Iannuzzi outlines this "interim" coming, using such holy sources....as Byron's comment speaks too.
There is much anticipation regarding the Antichrist. Forever I thought that it was one entity, but after reading The Book of Heaven, The Return of the Creature to the Order, Purpose and Place for which they were created by God. I have realized that the Antichrist is not 1 being, it is every person that lives in their will. The beast of the water is mans will the most evil thing there is. The beast of the land (earth) is Satan. One gives power to the other. When a soul accepts the gift of living in the Divine Will (the Divinity) then the soul, which is the memory, intellect and Will, gives power to God and God gives power to man. The power as described in the book of Revelation 11. When man lives of his will Satan gives him power and he gives power back to Satan. The 2 beasts. Revelation 13. We are seeing the rise of evil because we are seeing the rise of the power of the 2 beasts. This is the 4th beast of Daniel chapter 7. The reign of satan. Will there be powerful human beings doing horrific things absolutely. Will those who don’t know God in the Eucharist worship the beast. Yes! Read the book of revelation with eyes open to The oil being the Will of God and Wine being the Eucharist. Now read chapter 6. Revelation 6:6 6 and I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius,and three quarts of barley for a denarius; but do not harm oil and wine!" It does not say olives and grapes, but oil and wine. Read chapter 13 with the thought of the 2 beasts being mans will and Satan. 666 = man. The number 666 relates to the carbon atom, and man. Carbon-12; one of 5 elements in the human DNA is composed of 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons, which equates to 666. There will be many Antichrists not just 1. As for the chip, The use of cash is happening less and less. The chip could be the microchip in everything we use. Even this computer that I’m typing on. Yes the chips will give power to man knowing where you are at all times. It is happening around the world. They are killing people for posting on the internet. It will get worse. As for the 2 witnesses in chapter 11, they are the lamp stands of the Eucharistic lamp and the lamp of Gods Will. The 2 olive trees are also the tree of Redemption (Eucharist) and the tree of Gods Will (Divinity). Evil will rise more and more. But pay attention to this, Revelation 11:7-11 7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will make war upon them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city * which is allegoricallycalled Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. 9 For three days and a half men from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, 10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. 11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. How will every nation gaze at their dead bodies? Through TV and the internet. The illumination Luke 21:25-28 25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to take place, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." My Bible says faint but others say Man will die of fear. This is what the Seers said regarding the illumination. Revelation 8:1-5 1 When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth;* and there were peals of thunder, loud noises, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. The silence is the Illumination. Matthew 24:3-8 3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" 4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the sufferings. Kingdom against Kingdom are the Kingdoms of Mans will and the Kingdom of Gods will. For man is a Kingdom. What makes a Kingdom? When the king moves in. For some that is their own will reigning, for others it is Gods will reigning. One brings peace (rest) the 7th day. The other brings misery, upheaval the unrest. Revelation 11:15 15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever." As for current day seer and mystics, you can test what they say by what is in scripture. Every prophet in the Old Testament tells us what to expect. What is going to happen. There are 3 temples. 1. Temple - Solomon’s Temple - destroyed when Christ Rose from the dead. First day ( Creation) 2. Temple - Catholic Church - (Redemption) being purged but will Rise again. (Second day) 3. Temple - the Soul - On Earth as it is in Heaven (Sanctification) (Third day). The third day is the New Jerusalem. He will rise again on the third day. In the likeness and image that we were created to be. This is not Salvation this is Sanctification the Reign of the Holy Spirit, with His spouse The Blessed Mother. 12 tribes of Israel x 12 stars on Her crown = 144. 144,000 is the reign of The Trinity in the soul with the Blessed Mother. The 100 thousands equals many kingdoms. The church is the Mystical Body of Christ and it too will suffer and die, but will rise again more glorious than before. If you read the prophets with the understanding of the 3 temples you will know what is going to happen. One last item the 6 days of Creation in Genesis is the new creation in mans soul when he says yes to Living in the Will of God. Peace to all of you. As always, let’s discuss please without hate. If you don’t believe in the living in Gods Will that is your right, but do not be hateful to those who do. Discuss with peace.
etoa, Most people including Desmond Birch do not refer to the near destruction of the world at the end to be the major chastisement either. Mr. Birch refers to the time of Antichrist as the major chastisement. In summary, Mr. Birch states "after he [the Antichrist] rises to total power his bestial persecution of the church lasts 3.5 years." He also states that the Antichrist will outlaw the saying of Mass, as you know this is the "abomination of desolations". This is the major chastisement, a 3.5 year reign of the Antichrist in which he removes the sacrifice of the mass in most places except for in the "desert" - the "wilderness". The near destruction of the world occurs to put an end to the tyrannical reign of the Antichrist and his persecution of Christians.
