It is such an interesting question. But if it is judging to say we think most people are bad then we are surely equally judging people to say most people are good. It is so hard to make generalisations isn't it? However nowadays through the media and the internet we have such huge access to the world around us. Are insights into these understandings are much wider and deeper. I would say my own greatest insights into the general state of men's souls are the Marian Apparitions right round the world. Mary comes and tells us that far from being good we are, in general very,very bad indeed. More than this she tells us we are about to go into the mixer machine because of it. My own personal appraisal is that she is not whistling Dixie. Peoples hearts are far, far, far from God ; just about as far as they can get. Billy Graham said recently that we are in a far worse state than Sodom and Gomorrah before they get whacked. I very much agree. This is not a cheerful subject I agree. But then the truth is often unpalatable.
Yes, we were all bad before God found us. We did good things, we thought we were good, but before Christ shone His all revealing light in our souls, we had no idea how bad we really were. Nor did we realize the bad we were capable of. You mention Christ converting Paul, but remember the way Christ did that was to strike him blind and rebuke him for his wickedness. "Saul Saul, why do you persecute Me??" Saul had never touched Christ, but he HAD persecuted Christ's Church. Saul converted when he was told the truth, and was able to see himself for the wicked person he was. He had thought himself to be doing GOOD before this happened to him!
I guess instead of becoming more bitter as I get older I find the closer I get to God the more I try to find the good in people even if their actions aren't clearly good. The old saying "walk a mile in their shoes" fits well. Abortions are evil but this doesn't mean the woman that choose it is condemed to hell in my opinion. God will either in this life or the next show her what her actions did and she (I believe) will still have a chance for mercy and forgiveness. Most are going to pugatory I believe. My wife's boss for the last 15 years was a devout Muslim and recently retired and my wife got his position. She is clearly Catholic and wears a cross on the outside daily. This man, although I don't agree with his religion (like he really had a choice in his upbringing) was a good man. This man groomed my wife for his position. Think about it, a Muslim man choose a woman to help and put in a position of power. But I thought he had to kill her since she didn't convert? This whole religious war both sides seemingly want isn't something I support. It's underlying root is hate on both sides. Self defence is one thing but you don't get to drop bombs on people hoping your are killing the "evil doers". Satan is working hard on both sides.
I think it is not a question of , 'Them ' and , 'Us' MMM. It is more a matter of a confusion of world views. In confusing the word, 'Nice' with the word, 'Good. ' One time people started calling Jesus' Good' and He asked why people were calling Him, 'Good', for no-one is, 'Good', but God. Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. What did Jesus mean by this, that no one is good but God? I think Jesus was saying that we are only good in so far as we partake of the grace of God. The Church teaches we enter into this life of grace by the Sacrament of baptism and so we enter into grace that makes us good and holy...sanctifying grace. To be nice on the other hand are the attributes of our current Western civilisation. Paul warns us that before the coming of Christ the world existed under judgement , in a state of Darkness. Then with the coming of Christ we were sent forth as a yeast and a light to raise the world. Now as the salt looses its flavour and the great resevoir of grace drains from the world we are left with the influence of this sanctifying grace in even the pagans , these new Pagans in the Darkening World around us. ..and so we many of mistake this reflected light of niceness for grace working within. John 15:5 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. But niceness is not goodness. Christ is not some kind of,optional, bolt on, extra. For if all roads lead to God; no road leads to God . 1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, These spirits are very nice. They give up their places in the supermarket queques , they give way to us in traffic, they have a certain kindness and politeness. But they do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they do not bother with Church, they are far from prayer. They are nice people with nice manners, but I tell you being nice is not what will get you into heaven. Hell I dare say is full to brim with the nicest of nice people, I dare say they even hold the gates open for each other on the way in. I also dare say they spend the first billion years down there in the flames wondering how they wound up down there. They never realised themselves that nice is not the same as good and that they were freewheeling in their niceness on the rewards of the simple goodness of the true yeast , of those who shone with the grace of sharing in the Life of Christ. Christ , I am afraid is not an optional bolt on extra , a take it or leave matter which we can do with or without as we desire. Ephesians 5:8-10 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord.
You will find a great talk by Father Malachi Martin on youtube that he gave for Human Life international way back in 1991. Listen to what he says there about the PCSAP's "The politically correct socially acceptable person" brigade; and my are we not overran with people who have made a virtue out of taking offence and who would lob of your head if you dare question them. Also, take note of the many brilliant observations that he makes and remember that these were made nearly a quarter of a century ago.
They are nice people with nice manners, but I tell you being nice is not what will get you into heaven. Hell I dare say is full to brim with the nicest of nice people, I dare say they even hold the gates open for each other on the way in. I also dare say they spend the first billion years down there in the flames wondering how they wound up down there. So very true Padraig! But the visual I am getting from this gives me a chuckle .
I guess we don't see things the same way Padraig but it is pretty close in the grand scheme of things. I would argue only those rejecting God's mercy will find themselves in Hell. They will choose it. So the God of love, the God of Mercy who created us in His image and is allowing Satan and his fallen angels to tempt and torment us...allowing many of us to be raised improperly by parents that didn't know better, fill our head with erroneous knowledge, addictions, set us out in a fallen, sinful world is going to lay in wait for our mistakes so He can sent us to hell for a billion years times infinity?? This isn't the God of Love and Mercy I believe in. God: ok most of you won't know me but you've got 80 years to figure it out or spend eterity in Hell. I know most of you are born into families that don't know who I am but that's your problem not mine. Figure it out and love me before you get sent to a place you don't even know about.
Loving the discussion... My question is about conscience. I know that two people could live lives of identical actions / sins, but one would be saved and the other lost for eternity because they didn't follow their conscience. I always think this actually puts thinking Catholics on a very slippery slope - or me anyway! So many times I wrestle with my conscience - little things big things... Scruples or genuine contrition???? Does throwing yourself on God's mercy completely counteract the guilty conscience? This is what I feel I have to practice on Earth so that I will be in that habit when judgement comes my way. Why would someone reject God's mercy in that judgement - is it lack of faith in his mercy, or despair, or what??? I am big time living in hope AND in fear!
I recall Servant of God, Father John Hardon SJ, in one of the many memorable moments in his retreats once said, "good people do not go to heaven, holy people do". He went on to define the difference saying that good people do good things, but not necessarily out of love for God. Holy people are those who do the will of God, not of self. In saying this, it is clear to see the distinction between the two is that one does what he does out of love of God, the while the other does it out of self centered reasons.
It's a good question. So mny good questions. I suppose in answer I could pose another question. Do we, any of us get into heaven for being perfect or for being little? If it were for being perfect I suspect heaven would be empty. Some get to the golden gates and being little call out and ask Jesus to lift them up and carry them over in His Mercy and love. Others, being big reach the Golden Gates and being sure of themselves demand to be let in and seeing the gates turn away in a huff and a tantrum. They weren't little enough. worse they weren't even prepared to become little. Somehow the very notion of becommning little eludes some souls for all Eternity. The simplest thing in the Universe, yet somehow it is beyond them. They are just too big for God...and His Mercy.
My wife and I have noticed that since the summer but especially these past few weeks that the skies and cloud formations in our area have been extremely beautiful and different. We have seen dark puffy (cumulus) clouds that have had breaks where brilliant streams of bright sunlight come through where you can see the rays streaming down. And you see bright white clouds next to the dark. Then just at sunset, we have seen almost every night the most awesome and brilliant colors or red/orange filling almost the entire sky. We honestly cannot recall this happening as frequently has it has these past few months. Has anyone else seen this in their neck if the woods?
Beautiful! We have just been marveling at the "signs" in the skies these oats few weeks. Our kids think we're loading our minds as we are snapping pictures like this on our phones and iPads almost everyday
me and my spiritual sisters said the same thing. We have not seen such beautiful skies in recent memory. I think it is a sign for those of us struggling and love pats from God.
Miker my wife and I just have the exact same conversation today for the past several months every morning and every sunset have just beautiful we also noticed a lot of rainbows including more double rainbows than i have ever seen in my life. The signs are certainly there in the skies. By the way we are in the Atlanta area
Miker, my children think I'm a little crazy and think that I am "over analyzing" the skies. We live in New Mexico and commute to and from school/work (hour drive each way). I get to see the early morning skies and the evening sunsets during my drives. I have noticed some of the most strangest, yet most beautiful clouds. Also the colors in the morning or during sunset are very striking with the colors of red/orange/pink. I don't ever remember seeing the skies look like this and I have always been one to notice cloud shapes and sunsets.
The other morning as I was driving to work and this is what the sky looked like. I noticed that some friends on facebook had taken a picture of the sky that morning and must have noticed it as well. Shortly after I made it to work, I was reading an article that had the following verse on it: Matthew 16:3 And in the morning: To day there will be a storm, for the sky is red and lowering. You know then how to discern the face of the sky: and can you not know the signs of the times? Douay-Rheims Bible
Crazy that you guys are referencing the skies here as my sister called me this morning and told me to look at the sky- it was soooo.......weird! It looked like the picture above and because of the deep pink skyline our lake appeared to be pink. Wish i would have thought to get a pic. It was like nothing I have ever seen.
This Great Post Padraig! This is pretty much everything in a nut shell. Salvation is about humility, trust, and love. In watching my girls growing up(ages 11 and 13) I see so often the selfish inclinations/pride at work within them and my frustration dealing with it to try to convey to them to look inward before pointing out the faults of the other (usually the very thing they are upset about with their sister is something they also do to their sister on other occasions). Our pride keeps us from being honest with ourselves. This is why I believe a nightly (if not more often than this) examination of conscience (with total openness to allowing God to reveal our own weaknesses and sinfulness to us) is crucial to growing in the virtue/habit of staying little/humble before God.
