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RIP, Vatican II Catholicism (1962-2018)

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by BrianK, Oct 10, 2018.

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SgCatholic Guest

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

Sg posted an interview with Alice Von Hildebrand wherein she blamed the problem on the lack of holiness in the priests who said the TLM. I remember the post and in the ending of the interview, she cautioned us against fanaticism. She strongly advised striving for personal sanctity no matter what form of liturgy.
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These are the relevant parts of my post on that interview:

SgCatholic said: ↑

TLM: So you see the only scenario for a solution to the present crisis as the renewal of a striving for sanctity?

AVH:: We should not forget that we are fighting not only against flesh and blood, but against “powers and principalities.” This should elicit sufficient dread in us to make us strive more than ever for holiness, and to pray fervently that the Holy Bride of Christ, who is right now at Calvary, comes out of this fearful crisis more radiant than ever.

The Catholic answer is always the same: absolute fidelity to the holy teaching of the Church, faithfulness to the Holy See, frequent reception of the sacraments, the Rosary, daily spiritual reading, and gratitude that we have been given the fullness of God’s revelation: “Gaudete, iterum dico vobis, Gaudete.”
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SgCatholic said: ↑

TLM: I cannot end the interview without asking your reaction to a well-worn canard. There are those critics of the ancient Latin Mass who point out that the crisis in the Church developed at a time when the Mass was offered throughout the world. Why should we then think its revival is intrinsic to the solution?

AVH:: The devil hates the ancient Mass. He hates it because it is the most perfect reformulation of all the teachings of the Church. It was my husband who gave me this insight about the Mass. The problem that ushered in the present crisis was not the traditional Mass. The problem was that priests who offered it had already lost the sense of the supernatural and the transcendent. They rushed through the prayers, they mumbled and didn’t enunciate them. That is a sign that they had brought to the Mass their growing secularism. The ancient Mass does not abide irreverence, and that was why so many priests were just as happy to see it go.
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SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#81

DivineMercy likes this.
SgCatholic Guest

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

The other thing is that some people on this forum who make it part of their agenda on this forum to promote the TLM don’t even worship there.
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I don't know if you are referring to me.
How I wish that the TLM was freely available on a daily basis in Singapore.

SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#82

DivineMercy, DeGaulle, AED and 1 other person like this.
Mario Powers

SgCatholic said: ↑

I have to disagree. This too happened because of Vatican II.
The following article is very good and includes all the points I would like to present.
It explains how the change happened and why it is wrong.
(some of the emphasis are mine)

Why Women Should Wear Chapel Veils in Church
NOV 4, 2017 BRIAN KELLY
http://catholicism.org/women-wear-chapel-veils-church.html

...My wife, who is ten years younger than me, explained to me that Catholic women her age were told in the 1970s (in her case from the pulpit) that Rome no longer requires women to wear a veil or mantilla in church. And that is true. The 1917 Code of Canon Law that mandated the wearing of a veil (or other head covering) for women in church, has been abrogated by the 1983 new Code, which has nothing on the subject. All prior disciplinary laws, therefore, that are not in the new Code are no longer in effect: “Can. 61. When this Code goes into effect, the following are abrogated:1. the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917; etc.” Specifically, in the 1970s, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith did issue a decree, Inter Insigniores, which stated: “t must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.”
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Sg,

I'm not going to argue with the highlighted portion of Mr. Kelly's article. That was his wife's experience. My statement is based on a realization of my own at the age of 15 (1969), when I realized that hats and coverings had disappeared from the heads of the fairer sex in my own parish of Our Lady of Lourdes in Syracuse, NY. Yes, there were a few holdouts (like my Mom who would wear a black veil), but the defrocking was shockingly apparent to yours truly.

Perhaps I'm am wrong to apply my past shock to the Catholic population-at-large in 1969.

Safe in the Barque of Peter!

Mario, Oct 13, 2018

#83
Mario Powers

a

Mario, Oct 13, 2018

#84
SgCatholic Guest

Praetorian said: ↑

It seems all of this began because of what began happening with the Modernists at Vatican II. I would think that is why we were warned about the date 1960.
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Agree!

Praetorian said: ↑

The faith was demolished during and after Vatican II. Even Pope Paul VI admitted that. All of the specifics are debatable, but that fact that it was is evident from the decades of proof we have.
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Yes.

SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#85

DivineMercy and Praetorian like this.
Praetorian Powers

Mario said: ↑

a
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I vehemently disagree with "a" lol

Praetorian, Oct 13, 2018

#86

DeGaulle likes this.
SgCatholic Guest

Mario said: ↑

I'm not going to argue with the highlighted portion of Mr. Kelly's article. That was his wife's experience. My statement is based on a realization of my own at the age of 15 (1969),
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But Mario, as stated in the following portion of the article, it was not merely his wife's experience. It was documented.

SgCatholic said: ↑

The 1917 Code of Canon Law that mandated the wearing of a veil (or other head covering) for women in church, has been abrogated by the 1983 new Code, which has nothing on the subject. All prior disciplinary laws, therefore, that are not in the new Code are no longer in effect: “Can. 61. When this Code goes into effect, the following are abrogated:1. the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917; etc.” Specifically, in the 1970s, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith did issue a decree, Inter Insigniores, which stated: “t must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.”
Click to expand...

SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#87

DivineMercy likes this.
Praetorian Powers

SgCatholic said: ↑

“t must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11:2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.”
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Ah, a very sad statement.

If there is no longer any value in it then why does Our Lady wear a head covering at all of her apparitions?

Praetorian, Oct 13, 2018

#88

DivineMercy, DeGaulle, AED and 1 other person like this.
HeavenlyHosts Powers

What does Fr Ripperger say about head covering?
And he is celebrating the NO on November 3
I know you will have a comeback for that as well.

HeavenlyHosts, Oct 13, 2018

#89
Mario Powers

a

Mario, Oct 13, 2018

#90
Mario Powers

a

Mario, Oct 13, 2018

#91
Mario Powers

a

Mario, Oct 13, 2018

#92
Praetorian Powers

Mario said: ↑

a
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Mario said: ↑

a
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Now you have just gone too far my friend!

Praetorian, Oct 13, 2018

#93
HeavenlyHosts Powers

b

HeavenlyHosts, Oct 13, 2018

#94

AED and Praetorian like this.
SgCatholic Guest

Mario?
What's happening?

SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#95
SgCatholic Guest

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

What does Fr Ripperger say about head covering?
And he is celebrating the NO on November 3
I know you will have a comeback for that as well.
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Are you referring to me HH?

SgCatholic, Oct 13, 2018

#96
HeavenlyHosts Powers

Not only the Faith was demolished but my point is that Society fell apart as well
We used to pray in public school and some had Bible readings as well
The Ten Commandments were posted in public and people swore to God in courts
This started around 1962 and has been ongoing
Coinciding with the downhill slide
In the Church

HeavenlyHosts, Oct 13, 2018

#97

Carol55 and Praetorian like this.
Praetorian Powers

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

Not only the Faith was demolished but my point is that Society fell apart as well
We used to pray in public school and some had Bible readings as well
The Ten Commandments were posted in public and people swore to God in courts
This started around 1962 and has been ongoing
Coinciding with the downhill slide
In the Church
Click to expand...

Coincidence that all this began after 1960?
I think not

Praetorian, Oct 13, 2018

#98

DivineMercy, SgCatholic, AED and 1 other person like this.
HeavenlyHosts Powers

Well, we have the vision of Pope Leo XIII
Where the Lord gave the devil permission to destroy the Church
Remember that?
And we have Our Lady of Fatima giving us the antidote which was barely followed
But we also know that the gates of Hell will not prevail against God’s Church
And that is seldom mentioned in many of the articles which are posted
We have lots of finger pointing (from the authors of the articles) but no real solution
Which boils down to the message of Fatima
And pray, hope and don’t worry
And probably it wouldn’t hurt to read often Ann Barnhardt’s article about Hell

HeavenlyHosts, Oct 13, 2018

#99

Carol55, DeGaulle, Don_D and 1 other person like this.
HeavenlyHosts Powers

Wishing things were different in my opinion is useless
As Catholics, we do not deal in wishing
We have the Church’s roadmap to follow to get to Heaven

HeavenlyHosts, Oct 13, 2018

#100

Mario, Carol55, DeGaulle and 3 others like this.

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