Prophesy - GSWYL

Hi
I am a Christian who used to be a witch. God delivered me from witchcraft. All of us are sinners and can go to hell for any mortal sin. St Paul murdered Christians and became an apostle. This is my personal opinion . I think some on this forum are to hung up on my background. I know nothing about any of your backgrounds. I think it is also counterproductive to continue arguing about this book gswyl. No one is required to believe in private revelation. But I know of people who have read this book and became Christian's and returned to the church. Whatever your opinion regarding this book, souls were saved and that is what matters. The fact God used this imperfect book for his kingdom floors me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. But is there not more pressing issues than to continue to argue about this book? I think so. GOD BLESS EVERYONE!

 

And Saul aided the killing of Christ's followers before his "material" intervention, causing him physical harm, before his conversion....and even that new person took a while to get used to. One can only imagine the hesitation if your requirements had taken place in his time. Those disciples who knew him and his "activities" of old were VERY wary of his new found faith at first but did not remain in that state but accepted this great evangelist. It took a while. And he was given the thorn in his side so that people would stop giving him personally the credit for the miracles occurring around him instead of Christ as a little remembrance of just who Paul actually was!

 

You said in this post "I don't go looking for new seers or prophets. I had never heard of most of these so-called locutionists or "seers" before joining this forum and it's hard to avoid them here because there's hardly a thread on the forum where some "messenger" or other isn't quoted as though they had the same authority as the Apostles." This forum is called the Mother of God forum. Our Mother was commissioned by Jesus as He hung on the cross to be Our Mother. Our Mother has mystically come to earth on many occasions since Jesus died to call her children to Him. I think this forum pays tribute to this fact. Only the Catholic Church honors the Virgin Mary in this special way as our intercessor before Jesus. Therefore your criticism of how many threads contain works of Our Mother working in the world to convert her children is off. Also Our Mother does have the same authority as the apostles. She is Queen of the apostles. She is Mother of the Church and Queen of the Rosary and Queen of Peace. The message of Medjugorje is primarily to work for peace between people and between people and God so that we can live in peace. We achieve this through prayer, fasting, sacramental confession and the Eucharist, and reading Scripture.

 

I don't suppose anyone who is opposed ot Verne on this thread will pay the least attention to me.

But I have to write this, as did Rabben Gamliel (the teacher of St Paul) many centuries ago. Be careful that in opposing these messages you are not in opposition and striving with God.

Some of the people posting are genuine. Some are not. That is my own private prayerful feeling in this. Some folks have agenda's of quite their own. Bad agenda's.

I can understand geunine misunderstanding, for we are all human; but from some I sense a Bad Spirit. A very Bad Spirit.

 

Dear Josephite - This is such a sad post from you. We are completely united with the Truth. May His Kingdom come soon that His Will may be done and all will come to know the Truth. Fiat! God bless you.

 

Josephite,

I am surprised at the tone of vehemence in the above. Lynnfiat mentioned this recently in the Divine Will thread:

A message from Tom Fahy:

Good News from Corato: On Friday, July 6, 2018, I was informed by the president of Association Luisa Piccarreta, Mr. Michael Colonna, that on June 30 he and Fr. Sergio Pellegrini had gone to the Vatican. He said that the Typical Edition of the Volumes of the Book of Heaven had been completed and that all the specialists who had worked on the Typical Edition signed a declaration that there were no errors or omissions in their translations.

He added that Fr. Sergio wanted to take a couple of weeks to check things over concerning the Typical Edition to his satisfaction and would then turn everything over to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in anticipation for an eventual imprimatur from the Vatican.

While at the Vatican Mr. Colonna met the postulator of Luisa's Cause, who is pushing to get Luisa's Beatification accomplished by the end of 2019.

I, myself, am in the investigative stage of examining The Divine Will. Still, I find it hard to believe that it is a cult if the above is true and it has reached this level of consideration by the CDF.

By the way, my comments carry with them no trace of doubt concerning your love for Mary, Jesus, and His Church. You and I have chatted together in too many threads for me to question that.

Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

Well really, if we are open to these messages we are Apostates?

Not, perhaps, genuinely mistaken, but Apostates, no longer Catholic and so liable to hell?

Really? Isn't that a little bit extreme, a teensy, weensy bit lacking in balance?

Wouldn't Jesus be a little unkind if He judged us so savagely for what might be an error of judgement??

This is what has disturbed me lately about this thread, the extremes of Judgement I see on it from time to time. Where oh where is this coming from?

 

OK .

Lets take this point by point.

1. 'Who is holier than the Church?

Fine

2. 'I'm encouraging people to listen to the Church and to be cautious about declaring prophecies true pending a Church pronouncement that they are worthy of belief. '

Again fine. But that does not mean they are only true until the Church Declares them to be true. But caution does not mean we should not believe before the Church makes a pronouncement. May I give two examples (there are many I could cite but two will suffice)

Firstly the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima. People went to the Cova De Ira at fatima before the Church had made a ruling . If they had not done so they would not have seen the sun dance. When they saw the sun dance they believed, which is why they fell to their knees. Had they waited for the Churches pronouncement they would not ahve seen teh Miracle. The Cardinal archbishop of Lisbon at the time had publically condemned the apparitions of Fatima. In line with this the Parish Priest of Fatima was very hostile to events there and refused to attend the miracle. The people who were not "cautious' ,saw the sun dance, the clerics who were , 'Cautious ' did not. Yoou cannot tie the Holy spirit up in a box. He will jump out and bite you right on the ass. Caution of course, but don;t expect the Holy Spirit to come to you all wrapped up nicely in a reocrded delivery letter from the Vatican.

The same deal at Lourdes. people flocked to Lourdes long before the Vaticna made and pronouncement. Thousands of miralces were worked there before the Vaticna got round to deciding. The parish Priest at Lourdes was intitially very hostile to the whoel thing. Once again you cannot tie the Holy Spirt in a blue ribbon and leave him in a special wrapped box to be hand delivered from the Vatican. caution is one thing, a lack of openess is wuite an other. The Holy spirit does not work like a time opened safe. There is caution on the one hand and there is lack of openess to the Spirit on the other.

3. The Church never has and never will tell us that our souls are in danger or that we won't have enough graces to cope with trials if we don't follow approved private revelation never mind the unapproved. The Church has said that people are free to go to Medjugorje if they wish. It isn't telling anyone that if they don't go to Medjugorje or believe that Our Lady is appearing to the "seers" they won't get enough graces to endure tribulation.

But of course. who would claim otherwise?


4.
When God wants the world to hear a new message, he will find a way to get that message through to the successors of the Apostles for relaying to the whole world. That's what God did at Fatima with the miracle of the sun, and the three children were obedient to the Church.

Yes. But the first sign of recognition came from the people , not the Vatican, when the people came in their serried millions to both Lourdes and Fatima long before the Vatican made prouncements.

5. 'I don't go looking for new seers or prophets. I had never heard of most of these so-called locutionists or "seers" before joining this forum and it's hard to avoid them here because I don't go looking for new seers or prophets. I had never heard of most of these so-called locutionists or "seers" before joining this forum and it's hard to avoid them here because there's hardly a thread on the forum where some "messenger" or other isn't quoted as though they had the same authority as the Apostles.

Ok Dolours. You write and I quote you directly on this,


'....there's hardly a thread on the forum where some "messenger" or other isn't quoted as though they had the same authority as the Apostles. ''

Right go to the threads you can see on the opening screen of the forum . The page you can see in front of you. Now according to yourself the large majority of them have some messenger who is quoted as, 'though he was an Apostle'. Very well Dolours, you give this as a fact prove this to me; give me examples. This should not be hard for you to do as according to you there is, 'Hardly a thread'', where this is not happening. OK. Where are they?

This should not be hard for you to do , if as you say there is , 'hardly a thread' , where such goings on are not happening. I have just gone over the openng screen threads and I have no idea what you are are talking about.

Do you? Show me then. You stated this as a fact. There are twenty threads in the opening screen.
Since as you you say, 'there is hardly a thread' that is not contaminated show me where these all are, for I can't see it? This shoudl not be hard for you to do since according to yourself they appear to be all over the place. Well I can't see them. But show me then Dolours, show me.

5.

'How did people benefit from following Maria Divine Mercy and other bogus messengers who were supported here and have since been exposed? How do people who supported them know that they haven't led others into the arms of false prophets? We will answer before God for every word spoken which leads people astray. Recklessness is not a virtue. Prudence is.'

Maria Divne Mercy was exposed as false on this very forum were once she was a menber. Enough said.

 

I started this thread in hopes to promote the messages in the book God Speaks Will You Listen www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org . Knowing that in doing so, it might come under the same attack as Glenn's thread on Garabandal and Lynne's thread on the Divine Will. I, like the other two aforementioned, believe in and support positive dialog with any part of the messages that have come from the messengers. One assumes, they will get those posts that will challenge a point or two. That's fair and expected. One also anticipates that some will think they are outside of Church teachings, to which any of us would gladly point out that they are not by asking to show where they are. When it gets to this point, the attacks come and when one comes the others who have a beef about the messages chime in.

What is not Christian in my opinion, is when attacks are leveled that are heated with emotion and not rationale. Assuming that those who post on messages/apparitions that the Church has not spoken to one way or the other are some type of a heretic. While it provides clarity and some certainty when the Church does speak on any apparition or message, she in no way suggests that messages are false and should not be read until formal approval is given. Padraig spoke to this in his above post.

For my part, I give no satisfaction to the naysayers who only spew hatred for what they cannot understand or refuse to understand. Every prophet, every messenger that God uses, as scripture attests too, will be rejected by many and recognized by few as is clearly the case with Fatima early on. Some only receive recognition after their prophecies are fulfilled. Either way, it seems apparent to me, that those who despise prophecy/messages that are not approved by the Church do so, not because they can easily show they are opposed to scripture or church teaching, but because they are not open to what the Spirit is doing in His Church, unless it receives full recognition by the Church. Fair enough. But, what is not fair is that they come on these threads to spew their hatred for them without and substance, without any evidence that what is being said is opposed to the Churches teachings. That cannot be pleasing to our Lord who said prophecy is the way he would continue to speak to his people. It does not seem to bother the naysayers that they may well be working against what God is unveiling through his messengers.

Point in case. My last post from yesterday from 8/6/07 is one of the most beautiful messages in the book GSWYL, as it speaks on the era of peace, in the divine will, fulfilling the Lord's prayer in his temporal earthly kingdom, where his will shall be done as it is in heaven. The fulfillment of Revelations 20. This message has so much to pray about and discern, as it is well within the Catholic prophetic consensus and it is not apart from Church teaching. Yet, it received scorn as expected from a few. Simply sad that a serious discussion on this cannot take place. I believe, this is what our Lord would want.

 

God is Love. When reading the Bible, the True Word of The Lord, every page, every word, is Love, Divine Love. You can feel it in your heart. In St. Faustina's Diary, the Words, spoken by Our Lord, are tender and beautiful, but again, so full of Divine Love.
The messages above, being spread by Verne, are sterile,wordy, and have an almost New Age feel. But most of all, they lack God's True Essence, which is Love.

 

There you go. You just proved my points above. Have you read the book? Where do you not see love? Read my latest post on his messages on 8/6/07 (post #420 on this thread) and if you don't see his love in this message, I don't know what you think love is. I am willing to bet you have not even read the book, right?

 

And I would humbly suggest to you Fatima, that you spend more time reading the Bible, the TRUE Word of God.

 

Oh, I read the bible often. In fact, I would be willing to bet you will never find another book of messages that give more scripture quoted then you will find in Verne's messages in God Speaks Will You Listen. But you wouldn't see this, because you have not read it. This is one of the things that impressed Father Roux, former head of the Marian Movement of Priests (MMP), in his letter supporting the book GSWYL.

 

Yes, and Satan quoted Scripture when trying to tempt Jesus in the desert.

 

I am just wondering, if you were a first century devout Jew, would you have listened to the Pharisees when they told you not to follow that false prophet Jesus who did all His fake miracles through the devil - “This man drives out demons only by the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons.” , go and read scripture, that is all you need.

And Jesus quoted scripture to defeat satan.

 

I am not completely sure what your point is Sam. But, just because Verne's messages frequently quote or refer to Scripture, this does not prove their authenticity.

 

My feeling is that sometimes people belabor their objections to unapproved prophecy. People try to “win” an argument and I feel they overdo posting their opinions.
I feel strangled by such postings. Say something, express your opinion, but for pity’s sake, don’t bludgeon us with
power-driven argument!
This happens on some other threads as well. I also feel uneasy when people discuss the liturgy, mainly because they are focused on forcing their views on others. I have observed that there are certain members that I just take with a grain of salt and I move on. That’s on a good day
I will now cease bludgeoning you with my opinion

 

I was not referring to Verne's messages at all. I was just directly referring to your quotes.

 

Was the Mother of God giving messages to the likes of Maria Divine Mercy? Was Our Lady appearing at Bayside? Whose will was being done and who was being helped by people promoting subsequently outed messengers doing the will of God or helping His Blessed Mother? MDM's books have been translated into Spanish and her "messages" are still being quoted as authentic by people who don't know that she has been outed. How many people who promoted her messages and know the truth now can put their hand on heart and say they have undone all the damage they caused by promoting her? Easy enough to apologise afterwards to forum members who have been accused of hatred or thwarting the will of God, but what about people who, based on your testimony, read, believed and continue to follow false prophets but don't check back with this forum for updates?

My issue with so many threads being peppered by people promoting unapproved "messengers" is that nobody knows whether the messengers are delusional, fraudsters or doing the work of evil spirits. Satan is a lot smarter than any of us and is more than capable of covering his agenda in very pious language, drawing people in until they are hooked and can be led off the straight and narrow with promises of signs and wonders to come. Confidence tricksters do it all the time. Every false prophet does harm which as often as not has a ripple effect. It's easy enough to take bits and pieces from the writings of saints, add a few "warnings" to fit prevailing circumstances, claim to have been given secrets or insights, and start counting the money donated by devotees who are only too willing to find a link or similarities with approved apparitions like Fatima. They won't necessarily ask for money, putting a price on their messages, but how many of them stipulate that they will not accept donations or expenses paid for speaking engagements?

People have raised genuine concerns about GSWYL and those concerns are dismissed out of hand. It's the same with Medjugorje where even the Bishop didn't escape the venom of its devotees. I don't believe in Medjugorje and never will. Thankfully, my eternal salvation doesn't hinge on believing that the Mother of God appeared there and continues to appear to the "seers". I have nothing against people who do believe in it provided they stay within the parameters of Church teaching which has never and will never proclaim that not believing in it endangers our immortal souls.

 

First of all, Padraig, let me make it clear that I have no agenda and am not here to cause trouble. I like your light touch on the forum, giving people space to voice differing opinions. I also like the fact that just about everyone here is a devout Catholic, accepting all that the Church teaches and living the faith to the best of their ability. That said, I will leave with no qualms and no ill feeling if you would rather I left the forum. If that be the case, you can rest assured that I won't pop up again with a different username.

My response to the points in your post:

2. I agree with you that the absence of Church approval doesn't make something untrue, but Church approval or dismissal is a better guide than the internet.

Fatima was unique in that people asked for a sign and Our Lady responded with a miracle on the day she promised. Our Lady found a way to get the Church authorities to recognise that the children weren't making up stories. She didn't leave the Bishops waiting decades to find out that she was the real deal. Some people say that the Pope saw the miracle of the sun in the Vatican, although I'm not sure how accurate that is. Similarly at Lourdes, there was a spring where Bernadette dug in the mud and there were miraculous healings very early on. Nevertheless, the Church still had to be cautious because Satan has plenty of tricks up his sleeve. Healing miracles need investigating to rule out bogus claims. In both cases, the children's demeanour, forebearance under harsh treatment, and obedience was a sign of the authenticity of the apparations. That Lucy and Bernadette went on to be nuns with no material gain is also a testament to the authenticity of Fatima and Lourdes.

3. This is the kind of statement that bothers me:

"Meanwhile those who take advantage of the permissions granted even before official approval are the ones who will benefit from the graces and instructions given by the Mother there for living out these grave times."
​

The implication is that there are graces available in Medjugorje which are somehow greater than the sanctifying grace available through the Sacraments of the Church. It could be perceived as a kind of threat "go there or else you won't get through the trials". Also with regard to Medjugorje, the impression is given that the Vatican has over-ruled the Bishop when that is not the case. The Bishop asked the Vatican to investigate - essentially because the Franciscans continued promoting it. That the Vatican has sent a representative there is being portrayed as a rebuke to the Bishop when there is no evidence to support that. I really don't want to get into a "oh yet it is, oh no it isn't" argument about Medjugorje because at least there is some chance of the Church making an official pronouncement about it.

4. The first recognition at Lourdes and Fatima came from the people but I think, and could be wrong, that pre-the internet and modern transport, they came in the thousands rather than millions - not that the actual numbers are all that relevant. There are also other issues which I think are very relevant such as the innocence of the children - their lack of "street smarts" for want of a better description. Character matters. Obedience matters. Even St. Paul checked in with the other Apostles to make sure he wasn't out of line.

5. OK, then so I exaggerated. Sorry. Nevertheless, unapproved "messages" pop up all over the place, often out of the blue and sometimes taking threads off course. Next time I see an example of it, I'll draw it to your attention but I'm too lazy to go looking for them now.

6. MDM's membership pre-dated my time on the forum. And I do acknowledge and appreciated that nobody here would tolerate her now. My issue is how many other MDM's are there and how many followers will they gather before the penny drops. I believe that there are enough warning signs about GSWYL but some people are so committed to it that they refuse to see the signs. I've been accused of hatred. Now, my chances of sainted are so slim that I will consider myself fortunate if I scrape into Purgatory, but I can honestly say that I have never felt hatred towards another human being. Disgust, disdain, suspicion, revulsion? Yes. Hatred? No.

Now, having said my piece on this topic, I have no wish to go back over old ground so will let it go now. I do think, however, that it isn't asking too much for people promoting unapproved messages to accept that unless there is an official declaration by the Church that something is worthy of belief it remains unapproved no matter how many clerics follow it or say nice things about it.

This post exceeded the limit of characters permitted so I deleted almost all of the contents of your post in the quoted section to make it fit. Sorry, but I had my replied all typed out and ready to post when I got the pop-up and didn't want to start messing around with it.