I've no idea whether the current problems surrounding the dubia might have a connection with the messages of Garabandal or Akita (Cardinals against cardinals etc) but I do view the insistence from the four cardinals that the dubia be answered is significant. I do not agree with Fr Lucie-Smith's view that a failure to respond could be catastrophic. I feel fairly sure that Pope Francis will not respond because the cardinals know full well the Pope's position on the matters they are raising, or at least they should do! They are persisting with the dubia because they do not like or agree with the Pope's position. I think Cardinal Schonborn's comment on this, that it takes time for changes to be absorbed, understood and accepted, is an accurate assessment. I believe that the situation will only become a serious problem if a significant number of cardinals or bishops decide to come out in public support of the four dubia cardinals. I don't anticipate that will happen.
Davidtlig, the "situation" is already a huge problem in God's eye. God has already spoke on, as well as his prophets, apostles and his disciples on His moral laws that are trying to be usurped by Pope Francis and his henchmen. It only takes "time to be absorbed" to see in action that what the Pope has ambiguously stated becomes a reality in the real world, which by now we have many many examples of lawlessness to God's moral laws taking place and being advocated by Cardinals, Bishops and Priests. In the end, God is in charge and he will not be mocked much longer. Those in Sodom and Gomorrah and those in the time of Noah thought otherwise as well and like Jesus said, Mattew 11:24 [24] But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
I think the following item will be not welcome by many forum posters but before they assume that the movement referred to here is some sort of left wing 'liberation movement' from South America, it is actually a 'conservative' group. Pope Benedict XVI celebrated the founder’s funeral Mass and his private household is served by women from the movement’s “Memores Domini” group. ‘If you don’t think Francis is the cure, you don’t grasp the disease,’ CL head says John L. Allen Jr. and Ines San Martin June 21, 2017 Father Julián Carrón, leader of the Catholic movement Communion and Liberation. Although some Catholics, especially the more conservative sort, often find Pope Francis a bit of a shock to the system, the leader of the Church's influential Communion and Liberation movement says that if you don't think this pontiff is the cure, then you don't understand the nature of the disease we're facing in a post-modern, secular world. MILAN - Probably better than most, Father Julián Carrón, the successor of the legendary Italian Father Luigi Giussani as leader of the influential Communion and Liberation movement, whose natural base is among more conservative Catholics, understands that Pope Francis can be a shock to the system. Yet he’s still an unabashed Francis fan, who insists that if you don’t think this pope is the cure, then you don’t understand the disease we’re facing in the post-modern world. “Sometimes certain gestures of the pope may not be understood because we don’t understand the full implications of what he calls an ‘epochal change’,” Carrón told Crux on Monday. “It’s like thinking a tumor is a simple case of the flu, so taking chemotherapy would seem too drastic,” he said. “But once you understand the nature of the disease, you realize you’re not going to be able to beat it with aspirin.” Carrón spoke to Crux at his residence in Milan, among other things about the English release of his book Disarming Beauty about the nature of the Christian “event.” “The changes we’re living through are so radical, so unprecedented, that I get why many people just don’t understand what’s happening or the gestures of Pope Francis,” he said. “But if we don’t understand those gestures now, we will in a time when we see the consequences they’re leading to.” Carrón argued that what’s happened in modernity is that people have lost site of what it means to be a human being, so the crisis is much deeper than simply the rejection of this or that ethical precept, and that what’s needed now is not so much moral exhortation or theological argument, but the attractive power of a fully Christian life. “I get that many people are upset and puzzled by the pope, as were people in Jesus’ time by him - especially, let’s remember, the more ‘religious’ people,” he said. “For example, the Pharisees, failing to see the full drama of the human situation facing them, wanted a preacher simply to tell people what to do, to put heavy burdens on them. “That wasn’t enough to give humanity a new start, and then Jesus arrived and entered the house of Zacchaeus, without calling him a sinning thief, and that could have seemed too weak. Instead, no one ever challenged Zacchaeus the way Jesus did,” Carrón said. “All those others who condemned his way of life didn’t move him an inch from his position. It was that absolutely gratuitous gesture of Jesus that succeeded where others failed,” he said. Founded by Giussani in 1954, Communion and Liberation is a lay ecclesial movement within the Catholic Church that’s especially prominent in Italy, but that’s today present in roughly 80 countries around the world. It’s had prominent backers over the years, including emeritus Pope Benedict XVI, who celebrated Giussani’s funeral Mass and whose private household is served by women from the movement’s “Memores Domini” group. Born in Spain and a longtime aide to Giussani, Carrón took over the leadership of Communion and Liberation in 2005 after Giussani’s death. Far from seeing a rupture between Francis and his immediate predecessors, John Paul II and Benedict XVI, Carrón insists that Francis is actually the “radicalization” of Benedict. “He says the same thing, but in a way that it gets across to everyone in a simple way through gestures, without in any sense reducing the density of what Benedict said,” he said. In essence, Carrón’s book is a synthesis of the vision for Christian life that comes from Giussani, as amplified by each of the last three popes. The key idea is that Christianity is about “disarmed beauty,” meaning a way of life that imposes itself through no power other than its own inherent attractiveness. “I wanted to get across that the power of the faith is in its beauty, its attractiveness,” Carrón said. “It doesn’t need any other power, any other tools or particular situations, to be resplendent, just like the mountains don’t need anything else to take our breath away.” https://cruxnow.com/interviews/2017/06/21/dont-think-francis-cure-dont-grasp-disease-cl-head-says/
No answers will be found in changing the Church. That is such a faithless and worldly view. The answers will only be found in prayer and sacrifice. Two things you will hardly hear mentioned anymore in how to deal with the crisis in the Church. The Church is not a corporation that needs to change it's mode of operation, it is Christ's Bride. He is in charge. Anyone who thinks the Church can change this or that and solve everything is deluded. Only God can solve this. We need to put our faith in Him. When times get tough you don't take a step away from what you believe, you double down. Our faith is being tested here, that is the whole point!
Well thank you Davidtlig for posting this article. Are you a member of this group? How many people coming here defending PF were members of this group? This article gives us the basis for what is happening with PF and the rcc. Yes, Mark Mallett and Charlie Johnston, this pope IS profoundly changing the rcc. With this philosophy, there is no need for repentence and confession. Actually, confession is only for trads who won't change. Pope Francis is NOT the messiah! He is being used as a useful idiot. This new religion is just a "cult" of the rcc. Catholics who agree with the masons. The definition of "wolves in sheep's clothing." Who made PF the messiah? If he is and only if he is, then I am a pharisee because I totally reject his agenda.
With respect picadillo but this is just such a silly thing to say. As for being a member of the CL group, I've never heard of it before and suspect most forum people are the same. But if Pope Benedict thinks highly of it then it's fine by me!
Sigh. It is not a matter of being a, 'Conservative', or a , 'Liberal, or a , 'Traditionalist'. It is simply a matter of being a very ordinary Catholic wanting the Teachings of the Church upheld. I hate being portrayed as as some kind of grumpy, frumpy, old man. How irritating.
Praetorian, At all costs, we must resist turning this struggle into an either/or situation. For instance, there should be no conflict or prioritizing among the works of mercy. As always the Catholic Church embraces the and/both dynamic. Now, I understand that the following might seem simplistic; however, I don't have time to write a thesis. The uniform consensus of what it meant to be Catholic found back in the 1950s has been lost, so I want to consider how the works of mercy have become divisive, at least the spiritual works. The spiritual works include: To instruct the ignorant. To counsel the doubtful. To admonish the sinners. To bear patiently those who wrong us. To forgive offenses. To comfort the afflicted. To pray for the living and the dead. As individual Catholics, we have gifts which might match up with a few of these works, but we can best cover all seven corporately. Those of us who have participated in the "Pope Francis" threads are coming primarily from a concern about the first three spiritual works of mercy, especially as they pertain to the teaching mission of the Church and in regard to moral integrity. The meaning of truth as taught by St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict concerning morals and liturgy has been demoted and challenged by neo-modernists, and those of us who seek to uphold such teaching are looked upon as rigid, insensitive, and narrow-minded. Pope Francis has implemented beautiful examples of corporal works such as the bathrooms and hostels near St. Peter's Square, and we can all applaud that, but when he and the neo-modernists have approached the spiritual works, I believe their focus has been on nos. 4-6 without due consideration for 1-3. After all, how can the divorced and civilly re-married be allowed Holy Communion (providing comfort) if they have not been admonished, instructed, and called to repentance (which includes a change in sinful behavior)? Comfort is provided through forgiveness only when integrated with the first three! All seven of the spiritual works must be operative to produce a true mercy. I must always strive in my heart to best understand mercy by referencing to all of them. I think that is true for all of us. If we as Church don't, then we'll be finger pointing for a long time. Let us pray. Lord have mercy! Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
Essentially what he is saying is that the world is facing an epochal change and an existential crisis. I have been saying that from the 1990s and it was not hard to see. What is the solution? Pandering to the present Godless culture will not bring people to repentance as in Nineveh. Catholic prophecy indicates that man will bring disaster upon himself due to his own sin. When structures and supports are gone then only then will people realise who the Prodigal Father is.
Getting back to the title of the thread -- the Dubia Monsignor Bux: We Are in a Full Crisis of Faith “If the Pope does not safeguard doctrine,” he adds, “he cannot impose discipline.” http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/monsignor-bux-we-are-in-a-full-crisis-of-faith
“For many Catholics, it is incredible that the Pope is asking bishops to dialogue with those who think differently [i.e. non-Catholic Christians], but does not want first to face the cardinals who are his chief advisors,” Msgr. Bux says. “If the Pope does not safeguard doctrine,” he adds, “he cannot impose discipline.”
He's plugging his book in Milan, the centre of Italian freemasonry. What else would you expect other than that he would juxtapose Jesus and the Pharisees, making out that it was the Pharisees who opposed divorce on the grounds that the traditional teaching was too rigid and Jesus wanted them to be more merciful towards people living in adulterous unions. "What part of From the beginning it was not so" do these people not understand? What part of Due to the hardness of your hearts, Moses permitted divorce do they not understand? For all their emphasis on the Pharisees trying to trick Jesus, the truth is that Jesus called their bluff and told them to get back on the narrow road where marriage and adultery were concerned. Today's Pharisees would have us believe that Jesus couldn't see beyond the year 33 AD, so they need to make out that Jesus didn't really prohibit divorce. There's simply no other way to read the Bible other than that marriage is a lifelong union between one man and one woman, and that to enter into another union while a valid spouse is still living is the sin of adultery. It's one of the clearest, most unequivocal passages in the Bible. Where marriage is concerned, Jesus was the rigid fundamentalist and the Pharisees the false mercy modernists. It was Jesus who put a "heavy burden" on the pharisees when he removed their authority to sanction divorce, meaning that they needed to get back to the hard and unpopular teaching of God's truth. Today's Pharisees want that authority back under the guise of pastoral accompaniment. Adultery is not a 21st century innovation. Neither is sodomy. The Bible and the writings of the Early Church Fathers attest to that. Man was just as fallen in the days of the Apostles as he is in the days of Francis. The early Christians converted Jews, Pagans and everything in between without compromising the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The world, the flesh and the devil were the enemy of the Church then as now. The difference now is that the Church is bending to the world, indulging the flesh and sowing seeds of doubt about the existence of the devil. Just like the current Superior General of the Jesuits, that man is piggybacking on the reputation of the founder of his order to peddle heresy. Because they can't change the canon of Scripture, they are casting doubts on the Apostles ability to record and interpret what Jesus said. They are casting doubts on the omnipotence of Jesus when they claim he would have said something different to us had He been born in the 20th Century as though Jesus couldn't see into the future. Doing so is an attack on the very divinity of Christ along the same lines as the claim that God needs us. Heretics and hypocrites each and every one of them!
This same kind of conciliatory discurse is also being adopted by other leaders of new lay movements in the Church such us the Neo Cathecumenals and Opus Dei. What Carrón does here is to trivialize or diminish the gravity of the current crisis in the Church, but that actually only shows how deeply worried he is and how severe the crisis is. I can understand many groups associated with sound doctrine are concerned with Church unity and they seem to officially prioritize that concern. But that may also be motivated because there are internal voices inside those groups that are opposing the Pope fiercely and are raising their voices. Antonio Socci from CL is a well known example; Carlos Larrainzar (a major canon lawyer professor from Opus Dei) is convinced and openly declaring in Spain that he believes the Third Secret of Fatima published in Zavala's book ("a Pope with the eyes of the devil") is the actual document. Besides, the confusion in the Church is such that we cannot discount many good and learned souls are being deceived. Or maybe it is us being deceived and we are being truly rigid and blind? But what are we supposed to think if our prelates tell us that what was a grave offense against God and our neighbor 14 months ago, is no longer a grave offense because of the circumstances that diminish subjective culpability? Are we supposed to answer "amen, adultery is one less sin to worry about, what a relief!" and throw our brains down the drain? But how are we not supposed to think that this is all a joke? What kind of sophistry do we need to understand that none of this new 'developments' are against the faith we have received? Why can not even our pope convince us of such a thing? Are we simply acting like the rigid Jews that crucified Jesus? Are we just legalistic blind rigids with hardened hearts? What about Benedict XVI, Saint John Paul II, and Paul VI, who explicitly refused the current pope's proposal (the Kasper proposal afterall) in magisterial documents, who also fought against it from within, preached against, prayed to Our Lord and Our Lady for discernment with regards to it?
What no one seems to register is that the last three Popes were NOT listened to and NOT obeyed by 80% of Catholics certainly as far as birth control is concerned. Pope Francis inherited a Church with the majority in mutiny, so where were all you critics when your fellow Catholics were falling into apostasy and who knows heresy in their indifference to Church doctrine. I fear that every criticism by any one of us is now just piling up coals to burn us for getting into fighting mode when it is really all too late. What I do these days is ask Jesus in the Divine Mercy Chaplet to have Mercy on all of us Parents, Teachers and Pastors who have failed to pass on the Faith to our children. And hope Merciful Jesus will show us the way to correct the outcome of our failure in our duty to serve Him and pass on the Truth of the Faith of our Fathers. There is truly no other solution. Pray and make reparation for the sins we have all contributed to. And make no mistake in thinking we are somehow not culpable. This type of discussion must be a huge annoyance to the Heart of God, Who is undoubtedly disgusted at our lack of honesty, and humility in His sight.
This "critic" was preaching and teaching the unchanging truths to anyone who had ears to hear for the past 30 years. The fact that both the past two popes were well read in their teachings of the faith through many encyclical's, the Catholic Catechism and many talks and writings is how no faithful Catholic today can plead innocent of the truth on judgement day. Yes, we must pray, pray, pray for the clergy, religious, faith formation teachers and parents who have not and are not now doing their duty to teach within the True Magisterium of the faith. However, there is something you are missing in your appeal and that is we must all stand tall in the face of apostasy and defend the truth. It is your and our duty as a faithful Catholic to do so. Just look at the following recent messages from heaven that keep us aware of our duty to do so: Pedro Regis Messages 4487 - Message of Our Lady Queen of Peace in Barroso / MG, June 19, 2017 You are living in the time of tribulations. Those chosen to defend the truth will retreat out of fear. Many will be judged and condemned, but the Lord will not forsake His Chosen. 4485 - Message of Our Lady Queen of Peace, June 17, 2017 The weapon of the small against the powerful is the truth. Take the truth to all My poor children. The darkness of false doctrines is spreading, but you who are of the Lord can dispel all darkness by bearing the Light of Truth. The devil has entered into the House of God causing all manner of spiritual disorder and bringing My poor children to doubt and uncertainty. You, Ministers of My Son Jesus, encourage one another and do not retreat. You are living in the time of the Great Spiritual Battle, but if you put your trust in the Lord, you will be victorious..... In the defense of the truth is your victory against the enemies. Go on. Do not let the flame of faith fade within you. 4484 - Message of Our Lady Queen of Peace, June 15, 2017 You are heading for a future of pain. Heretics will cause great disorder. From lack of humility and acceptance of truth are born the heresies that lead My poor children to spiritual death...... Peter courageously defended the True Teachings of My Son Jesus and silenced the heretics; he was persecuted but did not back down. You who are of the Lord, do not be deceived by the muck of false doctrines. Stay with the True Teachings of the Church of My Son Jesus. 4483 - Message of Our Lady Queen of Peace, June 13, 2017 Dear children, days will come when men will seek the truth and find it in few places. Bend your knees in prayer. Stand firm in the Truth of the Gospel. Tell everyone that in the Truth taught by My Jesus and by the True Magisterium of His Church there is no room for half-truth. The ministers of My Jesus should remain in the truth and lead My poor children on the Way of Salvation. Those who belong to My Lord proclaim without fear that only in the Church of My Jesus will man find Salvation. Be like Hezekiah: let yourselves be guided by the Will of God and you will be victorious. Hezekiah faced the powerful to defend that which belonged to the Lord. As the Lord guided Hezekiah, so He will also guide you and lead you to the Great Victory...;..There will be no defeat for men and women who remain in the truth. Courage.
Most of us register that the last three Popes were not listened to and not obeyed by 80% of Catholics. What most defenders of the modernism, relativism and situational ethics infecting the Church hierarchy refuse to acknowledge is that the disobedience was led by the very people Pope Francis is promoting. There are reports that Pope Francis himself played his part in the mutiny in Argentina. I have no doubt that God is disgusted by our sinfulness. Do you think that prelates downplaying Jesus' teaching on marriage are pleasing to God?
Does anyone doubt that the Church of today is afflicted by a lack of zeal? Indifference, rebellion, loss of faith in the real presence, compromise with worldliness -- all the signs of luke-warmness: It reminds me of the Church of Laodicea in the Book of Revelations 14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’”
