Pope Francis & WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by BrianK, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Mystery solved. See post above. My apologies for the error.

    If the bishop saw fit to publish these remarks on his personal blog, we should take note of its thesis and give it proper consideration.
     
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  2. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    Talks of sedevecantes , heretical Pope , schism, depose are all around us. As faithful Catholics one is obliged to recognise the primacy of the papacy. The words " Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church " are still uttered by Our Lord Saviour and King each and every time the white smoke plumes from the chimney in the Vatican. How often we forget the second part of the quote that promises us that Christ will not allow hell to prevail against His church. When Christ told Peter that upon this rock he would build His Church , if He had meant Peter as an individual then there would be no Popes after Peter if only he was the rock. Our Lord was referring to the Papacy when he said that it would be upon this rock that He would build His Church.
    History has shown us examples of some who have walked in the shoes of the fisherman and did great harm to the Church and weren't just bad Popes but bad Christians , evil men in fact and Christ the King will have passed judgement on them and ensured justice has been done. But the Churc has survived into a third millennium and rest assured it will continue to survive even if the true Roman Catholic Church should be reduced to a small remnant. It is my prayer and my belief that the Church and the Papacy will survive these times , for if there were no Pope then there would be no Roman Catholic Faith. We will keep the faith close to our hearts and fight our battle for its survival with the Rosary and the Holy Mass as our sword and our shield
     
  3. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Brian,

    After the recent discussions of censoring EWTN, it is quite understandable that the author of this article would sign it "N. de Plume".
    ref. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...r-pope-to-shut-down-ewtn-unless-they-fire-ray

    Thank you again for posting it, I have begun sharing it with my friends.
     
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  4. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Perhaps this is a rabbit hole. Please address the substance of the article that started the thread.
     
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  5. CrewDog

    CrewDog Archangels

    An article from the Washington Times (the DC Conservative newspaper) from yesterday. The sad truth is, the Church has had 50 years of Homosexual Predator Scandals .... GRAVE ERRORS, COVER-UPS & $$$ BILLIONS PAY-OFFS ... all of which has caused mass "Migration" of Lay & Clergy alike and confusion, division and suspicion among the Faithful who have stayed. Ya add this to the totality of the past five years of PF's reign and the other, numerous, Church sex/$$/heresy scandals that bubble-up every month or so .... :mad: At some point, any thinking person must wonder when the "Last-Straw" will be placed on the Camel's back? ... and full Apostasy, Schism unfolds .... and The Remnant Church emerges??
    Vatican: Pope Francis’ letter to Chile a ‘spiritual state of emergency’
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/apr/12/vatican-pope-francis-letter-chile-spiritual-state-/

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
     
  6. CrewDog

    CrewDog Archangels

    "Pope Francis & WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE" ....!!!!???:confused:

    Out the door apparently:(

    "Gallup: Drop in U.S. Catholic Church Attendance Under Pope Francis Sharpest in Decades"

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...nce-drops-during-pontificate-of-pope-francis/

    .... and what percent of that 6% were cradle Catholics & long supporters of their Parishes who have, quite simply, Had-Enough of Scandals and PF was the "Cherry on Top"??

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!



     
  7. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    CD,

    In this episode of the World Over,
    Raymond Arroyo also gives the results of the Gallup poll that you posted here about
    and Father Gerald Murray also asks when is Bishop Barros going to be removed.

     
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  8. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    My guess is he knows too much and will be protected to "hush him up".
     
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  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    The Vatican accord with China seems to be not going as well as our Dear Leader expected.

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chur...cution-in-the-Henan-Church-(Video)-43677.html

    04/20/2018, 11.30
    CHINA - VATICAN
    Churches demolished, desecrated tombs, kindergartens closed: persecution in the Henan Church (Video)
    Bernardo Cervellera
    The church of the village of Hutuo has been reduced to a pile of ruins; the tomb of the bishop of Luoyang, not recognized by the government, was desecrated; children are forbidden to enter churches; threats against Catholic parents and seniors: if they continue to believe they will not receive government subsidies or pensions.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Rome (AsiaNews) - "The Catholic Church in the province of Henan, in central China, is violently persecuted! Pray for them! ": This is the appeal we received yesterday from different parts of China, along with a list of violent acts that have occurred in recent weeks and which we publish below. The last one in the order of time: the plaque and the tomb of Msgr. Li Hongye, was desecrated and destroyed (see photo 1). Msgr. Li (1920-2011) was bishop of Luoyang, recognized by the Holy See, but not by the government. He spent decades in forced labor camps and dozens more under house arrest. The faithful believe the tomb was targeted because the bore the signs of his episcopal office.

    Yesterday, a church in the village of Hutuo (Xicun, Gongyi) in the diocese of Luoyang was also completely destroyed (see photo 2 and video).

    The most squalid violence took place in Zhengzhou: on Easter Sunday, last April 1st, during the mass, representatives of the government entered the church and forcibly removed all the children and young people under 18 to enforce the prohibition that is now being applied throughout China: it is forbidden to guarantee religious education to minors under the age of 18. Since then, every Sunday there are government employees at the entrance of the churches to enforce the implementation of the ban.

    The reasons for this wave of persecution are various:

    some priests believe these acts of violence and prohibitions are the outcome of the systematic application of the new regulations on religious activities.

    The persecution takes place in Henan (as well as in Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang) because here the Catholic community is a small minority. In a sense, the application of regulations here is a litmus test, to see if resistance is posed, and to study how to suffocate it. Later the regulations will be applied throughout the country, even in places where Catholics are a good percentage of the population, as in Hebei or Shanxi.

    The Church of Henan is almost completely an underground Church and in 10 dioceses, except the Diocese of Anyang, there are no bishops recognized by the government; for dioceses without a bishop (for example Luoyang), the Holy See has yet to appoint a successor. The government seems to be fighting against both official and underground communities, but above all against this unofficial Church, especially since it is "without a shepherd".

    One last reason, expressed by a local priest, is that by showing such violence, the government is trying to frighten not so much those who are already Catholics, but people who would like to convert to Christianity, in an attempt to stop the powerful religious renaissance taking place in the country.

    Belwo we publish the appeal received here at AsiaNews.

    The Catholic Church in Henan Province, central China, has been severely persecuted! Please pray for them!

    Zhengzhou Diocese (Henan)

    On April 1st, 2018, Easter Sunday, while Mass was being held, government officials rushed into the church to drive away children from the church. Afterwards, every Sunday, a law enforcement vehicle was parked at the entrance of the church, and at least three law enforcement officers guarded the church entrance to prevent the faithful from taking children into the church. Even infants in mothers’ arms were not allowed to enter the church.

    The prayer books, hymn books and Bibles were forcibly taken away from three of the parishes of Zhengzhou Diocese, namely Shuanghuaishu Parish, Jiayu Parish and Youfang Parish.

    Shangqiu Diocese (Henan)

    The government threatened the faithful with sinister means of "not allowing Catholic children to go to school" and "deducting the 60 yuan government subsidy per month from the Catholic elders". They even went to Catholic families door-to-door and told them: “Now, believing in religion is no longer allowed by the government, and whoever believes in it, your children will not be allowed to go to school; your elders’ subsidies will be deducted; and if you still do not listen to this advice, you will be expelled from public office; and if there are retirees at home, their pension will be stopped”.

    The government officials broke the religious tiled couplets at the sides of the doors of the local Catholics’ houses.

    Government officials conducted door-to-door publicity campaigns against religious beliefs.

    Kaifeng Diocese (Henan)

    On the main gate of Qixian Church, there are banners and slogans such as "Qixian Anti-Cult Warning Education Campaign into the Catholic Church" and "Religious Activity Venues Should Not Preach to Minors".

    Anyang Diocese (Henan)

    Government officials forcibly put up a board that says: "Minors can't enter the church" outside the Cathedral, and sent law enforcement officers to guard the Cathedral main entrance on Sundays.

    The kindergarten run by Weihui Church was forcibly closed. Law enforcement officers threw out all the kindergarten desks at night, and welded the gates.

    The school teachers asked students to report if their parents believe in any religion, and also asked the parents of the students to go to school to register their religious beliefs.

    On April 17, the Xincun Church, Anyang Diocese, was raided by the village, township and the Public Security officers, and they pulled away the church’s sacred objects.

    Gaoqiangying Church in Hua County, Anyang Diocese, was scrutinized twice, pulled away the church’s sacred objects, and chased out the church guards from the church premises.

    Forcibly sealed a house built by the Huaxian County Church, and no decoration is allowed.

    Demolishing the Cross of Xincun Church

    Puyang Diocese (Henan)

    Demolished churches.

    Forcing the parish council presidents to report to the government the information of the church members (name, ID number, work unit, home address, etc.)

    Xinxiang Diocese (Henan)

    On April 17th, 2018, the government ordered the Church of the North Xishang in Jiaozuo Newly Developed Area to demolish its cross; had taken away the children’s Bibles and books from the church; and taken over the church’s finances.

    Luoyang Diocese (Henan)

    On April 19, 2018, the Church of Hutuo Village in Xicun Township of Gongyi City was demolished, and became a ruin.

    Also on April 19, the tombstone and the grave of late Bishop Li Hongye of Luoyang Diocese was demolished.

     
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  10. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

  11. AED

    AED Powers

  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think people just say things that make no sense sometimes. Perhaps he was having a senior moment.

    Yogi Berra gave us a few good ones:

    When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

    You can observe a lot by just watching.

    It’s like déjà vu all over again.

    No one goes there nowadays, it’s too crowded.

    Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical.
     
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  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    It makes perfect sense to me. He is a modernist; a Socialist , like the Dear Leader (Pope Francis).



    http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/8400/papal-award-for-pro-abortion-politician-down-to-protocol-

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    Lilianne Ploumen received a papal honour as a result of diplomatic protocol alone, it has been made clear

    A Dutch pro-abortion former international development minister received a papal honour as a result of diplomatic protocol and not due to personal politics or achievements, The Tablet can report.

    Following last June’s trip, Lilianne Ploumen was made a Dame in the pontifical order of St Gregory the Great, a move which some have interpreted as Pope Francis honouring a prominent abortion campaigner.

    But in a statement the Holy See stressed the award was given as part of the “diplomatic practice of the exchange of honours” following official visits to the Vatican and is not in the “slightest” way an “approval” of “politics in favour of abortion and of birth control that Mrs Ploumen promotes.”

    A Vatican source explained to The Tablet that Ms Ploumen’s award was not personally designated to her but given out to senior figures in the delegation which accompanied King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima of the Netherlands. The source emphasised that it was not personally authorised or initiated by the Pope.

    Following the visit, the source explained, the Holy See’s protocol office suggested exchanging the honours given the historic nature of the visit and the new areas of collaboration now taking place between the Vatican and a traditionally Protestant country. Senior officials of the Holy See – but not the Pope – received honours from the Dutch in exchange.

    “It was meant to mark a new chapter of collaboration on peace, climate, human rights and poverty alleviation,” the source explained.

    Ms Ploumen identifies herself as a “Pro-Choice Catholic” who has served on the board of directors of the Dutch Catholic aid relief charity, Cordaid. Last year, as development minister, she launched a campaign “She Decides” in response to President Donald Trump’s decision to cut aid organisations that provide scope for abortions.

    The Vatican source said that her response to receiving the papal award, seen here, has added to the confusion. The source said that Ploumen was mistaken when she said she received the award even though the Holy See knew of her “She Decides” campaign. It was also incorrect to say, as the former development minister claims, that it was a “high award” that came directly from the Pope.

    Papal knighthoods and associated honours are normally granted following recommendations of the local Church, and their issuing is not something the Pope would normally be involved with. A champion of the poor, Francis does not show much interest in the Catholic honours system and is wary of the chivalric networks of privilege inside the Church.

    In the case of Ploumen, the local church has stressed it is not involved with the honour: a statement by Cardinal Willem Eijk distanced himself from the decision saying he was “unaware of the fact that this papal award was requested for her”.

    As the Holy See statement makes clear, however, the award was not requested personally for her but given as part of a general exchange of honours. The cardinal may not be full of enthusiasm to help clarify an anti-Francis media narrative given he was among those who signed a highly critical letter to the Pope during the 2015 synod of bishops gathering.

    The story regarding Ms Ploumen originated first from the Lepanto Institute a “research and education organisation” which seeks to defend the “Catholic Church against assaults from without as well as from within.” It was also responsible for alleging the Order of Malta was distributing condoms, information that in part sparked a chain of events that resulted in the resignation of the former Grand Master.

    False news stories about Pope Francis have included one alleging a secret commission studying an “ecumenical Mass” – described as “utterly false” – and an erroneous report that the Pope had a brain tumour.

    Next Wednesday, after his return from Chile and Peru, Francis is due to release a World Communications Day message on the theme of "fake news".



    (Pic: Minister Lilianne Ploumen pictured during a press conference ahead of the international ministers conference called 'she decides' with Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden to call for the inscription of the rights of women and girls on the top of international agenda, Thursday 02 March 2017, in Brussels. Credit: BELGA PHOTO NICOLAS MAETERLINCK/PA)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I was just trying to be charitable. I can't see how someone can seriously say that China best implements the social doctrine of the Church. China uses slave labor, abuses its citizens and has a history of harvesting the organs of its prisoners among many other atrocities. It is one of the worst governments in implementing the Church's social doctrine.

    If he truly meant that quote then he is so out of touch as to be delusional.
     
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  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Markist's talk of , 'Useful idiots'. A good example of useful idiots were Socialist Journalists and thinkers from the west who were given a tour of Stalin's Russia during his state driven famine of the Ukraine. They all thought the USSR was wonderful.

    There are several reason why the Powers that be at the Vatican (including the Dear Leader himself) would think a deal with Communist China is a good idea.

    Many of them are Socialists.

    Many of them are Modernists.

    Many of them are homosexuals.

    Many of them are not Catholics.

    Many of these are out and out Liberals.

    Many of them are Free Mason's

    Take your pick.

     
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  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

    In fact many of them are careerists. They would back anyone in charge, any Dear Leader, if they could simply step up the greasy ladder. As you can see I have a very,very low opinion of the Vatican and the Hierarchy generally.
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    But I guess things were always the same; shit tends to drift to the top. I read a very good book on this one time by an English Benedictine Monk called Albert Baker from the 1500's in England years ago. He said that the good people tended not not to get involved in clerical politics and not care who was in charge; because they were too involved with the Spiritual Life; whereas the bad people wanted power for power's sake. So in any given Monastery (or convent) it was the bad folks who often took power, simply because they wanted it.

    This is not simply true of the Church but life generally. Look at Hillary Clinton for instance.

    Power mad. You get this everywhere, including the Church.

    Other folks simply want to walk the dogs, play poker, make home made wine and pray.:):);)


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  18. Ed Kleese

    Ed Kleese Servant

    +
    Today's Memorial of St. George (the dragon slayer) is the patronal feast day of our Holy Father, Pope Francis. Let us keep him in extra prayer today, along with St. George, that the dragon in our day may be defeated as well.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06453a.htm

    Peace Brothers and Sisters,
    Ed
     
  19. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://okietraditionalist.blogspot.com/2018/05/okie-traditionalist-interviews-bishop.html?m=1

    Bishop Rene Gracida, of Corpus Christi, TX, about a Remedy for the Current Papal Crisis.

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    His Excellency, Bishop Rene Henry Gracida of Corpus Christi, Texas, gives clarification about an Article he posted on his blog last month on April 7th, which has since been circulated worldwide. He is encouraging the Cardinals to take action to remedy the current papal crisis.


    You can read the Article: HERE.


    Bishop Gracida of Texas was the first diocesan bishop to sign the "Filial Correction" presented to Pope Francis by Cardinal Raymond Burke and three other Cardinals, calling into question certain statements in the document Amoris Laetitia, in particular its policy of admitting public, unrepentant adulterers to Holy Communion.

    He is the retired bishop of the Diocese of Corpus Christi, TX; he also served as bishop of the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee, FL; and, he was auxiliary bishop of the Diocese of Miami, FL. He has been a bishop for 46 years, a priest for almost 60 years, was a Benedictine monk for 10 years, and served in World War II as a tail-gunner. Being 95 years old next month, and dedicated to the daily celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass, he is one of the most senior and traditional members of the hierarchy. Here is a past video interview of Bishop Gracida: LINK.

    The Interview:

    J.M.J.


    Dear Bishop Gracida, Your Excellency,


    Thank you for your reply from down there in Texas, to me a blogger up here in Oklahoma, and thanks for considering my request for an online interview. I would greatly appreciate any response you can give to my questions, and to readers worldwide, which you approve of before I post it.


    Questions:

    1. In a recent article posted to your blog (LINK), which has since been read around the world, you supported the case that Pope Francis may not be a valid pope, and that the Cardinals themselves consider electing a new pope. Was/Is your intention that the article might end up being read by Cardinal Burke, and other Cardinals, with the unique authority to directly confront the problem of the Francis pontificate?



    Yes, that was and still is my hope. Since only the validly appointed Cardinals have the power to initiate a solution to the present crisis in the Church, it was and still is my hope that they will be encouraged by what I published to take the necessary steps toward a solution as was proposed in the post.




    2. In your experience these last weeks, how has the response been from the laity, priests, and other bishops - if any - both online and in the flesh? Do you anticipate backlash from members of the hierarchy, or Rome? Or even from Cardinal Burke himself?



    There has been some response but not from cardinals. I do not really look for response from cardinals, I look for action on their part to initiate the steps that will lead to a special conclave. I do not expect them to publicize those steps, I expect them to move silently and discretely in order to minimize active opposition by the friends of Francis who are now firmly entrenched in the Vatican curia.




    3. Reading the argument, it seems the main basis and bulk of it is the contention the 2013 conclave broke conclave laws, enacted by Pope John Paul II, that would invalidate the election results. It begins by discussing the issue of heresy and papal infallibility, but seems to not make those issues the main basis. There seems to be strong enough evidence that certain Cardinals of the conspiring "St. Gallican Group" did violate conclave laws, enough to at least now raise the question of the validity of Cardinal Bergoglio's election. Am I correct in understanding this argument? Is that the focus you are encouraging the Cardinals to take?



    Yes, that is the focus I am encouraging the Cardinals to take.




    4. Since the word "heresy" was used in the article, perhaps you could speak to the question of how Cardinals, based on the tradition of the Church, can judge if a certain pope is guilty of actual "formal heresy" (vs. material), which would result in excommunication and loss of Office according to church law. Can you explain what the Church says? That is how the College of Cardinals can judge the pope to be an invalid pope, for different reasons, to the point of actually electing a new pope?


    Even though Francis has made heretical statements, he has cleverly also made orthodox statements on the same subject thereby making it virtually impossible to define him as a heretic. On the other hand, the provisions of the Apostolic Constitution UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS (edit: you can read it HERE) promulgated by Saint John Paul II are clear, and Francis and friends have confirmed their violations of those provisions in the conclave of 2013. Saint John Paul II provided for the penalty of AUTOMATIC EXCOMMUNICATION for any cardinal violating those provisions. Reasonable people should have no problem agreeing that an excommunicated person cannot be elected pope.


    Thank you again, Your Excellency, for answering these questions. I also hope the reasoned Argument you posted, and your answers in this interview, will be read and considered by the Cardinals.

    God bless,

    Joseph Ostermeir
    The Okie Traditionalist Blog
     
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I remember reading the original blog entry
    There was some question of the authorship but that doesn’t matter now
    I hope and pray the Cardinals take this seriously
    Thanks for posting
     
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