Pope Francis & the death penalty

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by garabandal, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    So scary. Do these people know anything about theology? That humans through free will can choose evil or good?

    Do they read the Gospels when Jesus teaches often about Hell/Gehenna for sinners?

    Do they believe Christ when he said the road was narrow and few find it? In other words Christ was saying it is actually hard to get to heaven because one has to convert and go through the narrow gate.

    Anyone who has tried to convert from a sinful lifestyle knows how hard it is to overcome the flesh because the roots of sin run deep like weeds and need to be uprooted. Only through violence (to self) can we enter the kingdom of God. It is a constant struggle until our final breath.

    And so many do not see sin as sin.

    Many evils are acceptable in sinful secular society. Many go to Hell because they embrace and love the sin more than anything else. They become consumed by the sin.

    Every act has its origins in free will.
     
    padraig and AED like this.
  2. AED

    AED Powers

    Exactly. Perfectly said. One of our recent popes--not sure if it is Pius XII or later--said " the greatest sin of our age is the loss of the sense of sin." If you think about it this is the most deadly. If you are in a worldly fog where you rationalize everything then the most heinous sins seem like nothing. In earlier times when people were dissolute they knew they were being dissolute. Today it is celebrated. I've been listening quite a bit this week to Bishop Sheen. He deals with "sin" and choice in no uncertain terms. In one talk he emphasized that not to choose is in itself to choose.
    It drives me crazy when people say "I'm a good person. I dont murder anyone or...." (and then name some more egregious sins.) This way they justify themselves. They think I'm a crackpot because I shudder at being told I'm a good person. I am NOT a good person. I am trying by God's grace to live according to His statutes but every day I fall through pride of through my senses. Any honest person would say so. I think this thick atmosphere of cultural toxicity numbs everyone. Sometimes God breaks through like the fire this week. People awake with a start but so many yawn and go back to sleep. Jesus's words are powerful here. " if these days were not shortened even the elect would be deceived." I am so aware of the pull of the world and so aware of my own weakness that every day I pray to be saved. To persevere to the end. To make it all the way to the foot of the Cross with Our Lady.
    We are in the time of "faithless and hardened hearts who resist the influence of God's grace."
     
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  3. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie


    Oh AED...beautifully said! Every word! I feel the same. I pray God gives us the grace to persevere to the end regardless of what lies before us. Jesus,I trust in You+
     
    sterph and AED like this.
  4. Mario

    Mario Powers

    The other quirk which I hear even my solid Pastor say at times, is to call sin, a mistake. It drives me nuts! I remember one time recently:oops: I failed to defend my Pastor, but instead played along with the criticism:rolleyes::barefoot:. Yes, that was a quick moment of decision, not a lot of time to sort out consequences, but it was not a mistake. I chose not to stick my neck out. I sinned! :sick:
     
    AED likes this.
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    The term being used here is "poor choices". I expect that you're a step ahead of us and that sins will be mistakes next year.

    I don't think that Church teaching on slavery really changed. Some background on it here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm
    and here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/popslave.htm
    What definitely hasn't changed (and is becoming more prevalent) is that some Bishops pick and choose which teaching they will promote in their dioceses.

    As to putting the death penalty on a par with abortion (which clearly is the goal of this change in the Catechism) providing an excuse for abortion supporting Catholics and especially Catholic Bishops in bed with abortion supporting politicians, the two can never be on the same level of evil, especially for Christians. Apart from the fact that the Church has always taught that capital punishment is not intrinsically evil, and sometimes can be necessary, another matter to be considered is the belief that God made man to "know, love and serve Him here on earth, and to be happy with Him forever in Heaven". Abortion denies a life created by God any opportunity to know love and serve God here on earth, thereby thwarting the will of God and denying God the love and service due to Him from the aborted human being. Abortion also denies the baby the opportunity of baptism which is the only means by which we can be absolutely certain than an innocent baby will achieve the Beatific vision. While the Church teaches that we trust in God's mercy when we hope that all unbaptised babies will enjoy the Beatific vision, hope is not a certainty: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...aith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

    Even the remotest chance that abortion would deny a life the possibility of enjoying the beatific vision should be enough to scare the daylights out of any pro-choice Christian, or any Christian who would equate the wholesale slaughter of the least of God's children with a comparatively tiny number of victims of mistaken or wrongful capital punishment. The most innocent person on death row has had a chance to know, love and serve God, has had a chance to be baptised, and has had an opportunity to work out his salvation in fear and trembling.

    I don't support capital punishment, and can't imagine that I would ever vote for it, and wouldn't be sorry to see an end to it worldwide, but I believe that linking it with abortion is downright malevolent. I see this change in the Catechism as another sign that influential members of our hierarchy have replaced worship of the Creator with worship of creation.
     
    AED likes this.
  6. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Dolours,

    Thanks for that article. It is actually beautiful in the development of charity toward slaves, and clarifies the difference, in kind, of the position of slaves in the early church with the type of slavery enforced upon natives with the discovery of the New World!

    Safe in the Father's Arms!
     

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