Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Frodo, Aug 26, 2018.
I'm sure plenty would jump at the opportunity. I don't think it would be pretty.
I followed your example, Sam!
Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
Why I Don’t Call Anyone “Gay”
JENNIFER ROBACK MORSE
This headline is on Spirit Digest:
Successive Vatican Secretaries of State, Sodano and Bertone had roles in the McCarrick cover-up. Both also had major roles suppressing the entirety of the Third Secret reducing the Message of Fatima to a generic prescription for person piety, stripped of its prophetic and monitory content regarding coming evil and corruption in the Church
It links to the following article:
Wow...if third secret is coming to pass. And the Church suppressed it and protected evil participants. Sad Sad Sad
Why Now Is the Time to Convert to Catholicism
Whatever you've read about the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, it's far worse than you can imagine. To clarify, this is not a hit piece on the Catholic Church by a smug Protestant (who should know better than to point fingers when it is sure to be happening right under their noses too). I am a Catholic and a new convert. I entered the church two Easters ago knowing full well that the devil resides in the Vatican. Why did I do it? What could possibly lead a person who knew about the rampant abuse of minors and corruption by priests and bishops to enter the church willingly? Believe me, lots of people have asked. It wasn't any priest, bishop or pope. It was Jesus. I came to understand the nature of the Church, the truth of its foundation, sacraments, saints, and the real presence of Christ in the eucharist. Nothing could have prevented me from coming home to the Catholic Church after I had studied its history and the truth and beauty of what I found there. (There isn't enough space here to give you every detail. Maybe I'll write a book one day, but if you want to know more start with anything written by Scott Hahn.)
For years before my conversion I had witnessed Catholic people of great faith fighting battles very few in the rest of the Christian world wanted to fight. If you want to know who is on the front lines in the abortion fight, against euthanasia, and standing firm on gay marriage and the nature of sin, one only need read the catechism of the Catholic Church. The other great faiths are falling one by one into heresy, especially when it comes to "LGBTQ" issues. Where is there left to go with a biblical view on human sexuality? Not the Episcopalians, Anglicans, some Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists and more. A list as long as my arm and growing every day of Christian faiths that now ignore the Bible can be found on Wikipedia. (I expect the Calvinist Reformed Church of America to fall any day considering that at every synod the pro-gay lobby is getting stronger and louder, refusing to even allow their leaders to affirm what the Bible says.) Further, most major Christian churches have stopped speaking out against abortion if they don't outright affirm it. The most prominent church still standing in doctrinal opposition to the cultural confusion of the day is the Catholic Church.
We also know now that there is a sexually active homosexual network of bishops and priests who have broken their vows and have been preying on seminarians, youths, children, and/or covering for clerics who have done the same. Eighty-one percent of victims were post-pubescent males.
Rest of article:
Wuerl goes into hiding, trying to get out of US at Francis suggestion!
Is this the demand predicted in prophecy that puts down a line over which the priests/church cannot go? How many will abide? And I wouldn't doubt that this tactic won't spread now elsewhere with this opportunity now given via disgrace at the top. Meanwhile the very "types" of persons found to be the ones likely to abuse in the secular studies of the scandal are promoted to be foster/adoptive parents and leaders within organizations providing intimate type settings for those very "temptations". One ought to be able to see the real motivations behind this kind of targeting.
Australian Bishops Reject Reporting Sexual Abuse Revealed in Confession
Mandatory reporting risks making children less safe, church argues; some priests say they would rather go to jail than break ‘seal of confession’
CANBERRA, Australia—Catholic bishops here said they oppose laws requiring priests to break the “seal of confession” when told of possible sexual abuse.
The Australian Catholic Bishops Conference, which represents the church’s senior leadership, said almost all the recommendations from a judicial inquiry into child sexual abuse in institutions including churches and schools are acceptable. But the bishops rejected weakening the seal, which bars priests from revealing anything they learn while hearing confessions.
Irish laws signed in 2015—though yet to take effect because of concerns about inaccurate allegations—require priests and other “mandated persons” to report child abuse. But in the U.S., the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled in 2016 that confession is “confidential communication” after an abuse victim sued a priest for failing to report what she had told him in confession as a minor.
The state government of South Australia says its proposed law, carrying fines of up to US$7,500, would bring priests into line with teachers, doctors and child-care workers. Other Australian states and territories also plan legislation.
The church holds the seal of confession to be inviolable, on pain of excommunication, and some Australian priests have said they would rather go to jail than break it. They argue that mandatory reporting risks making children less safe by discouraging abusers from admitting crimes in the confessional. It is also impractical, they say, because priests often don’t know the identity of those confessing.
“Refusing to remove the seal of confession is not because we regard ourselves as being above the law, or because we don’t value the safety of children as supremely important,” said Brisbane Archbishop Mark Coleridge, president of the conference, on Friday.
Australia’s five-year inquiry documented decades of widespread abuse of children in Catholic institutions. According to its final report, 7% of Catholic priests in Australia were accused of sexual abuse of children between 1950 and 2010, and 62% of allegations involving religious institutions were against the Catholic Church.
Of the report’s 198 recommendations, Archbishop Coleridge said 98% are acceptable to the church. Those include being open to making celibacy voluntary, he said, saying some church laws “may have contributed to a heightened risk of child sexual abuse.”
In July the archbishop of Adelaide, Philip Wilson, said he would step down, after being convicted of concealing knowledge of child sexual abuse by another priest. He is appealing the conviction.
National and state lawmakers are discussing mandatory-reporting laws that can be applied uniformly across Australia. Lawyers for abuse survivors said the church’s intransigence on abuse allegations aired in the confessional means the government must act.
“The Catholic Church have shown clearly today that they will not act on this important measure themselves,” said Michelle James, head of abuse law at Maurice Blackburn.
Archbishop Vigano, then papal nuncio to the United States, reads a message from Pope Francis at the 2015 March for Life. Pete Baklinski / LifeSiteNews
EXCLUSIVE: Viganó doubles down: McCarrick was restricted under Benedict, but ‘he didn’t obey’
Lisa Bourne | https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/v...was-restricted-under-benedict-but-he-didnt-ob
carlo vigano, catholic, clergy sex abuse scandal, pope francis, sex abuse crisis in catholic church, theodore mccarrick, vatican cover-up
SIGN THE PLEDGE: Support and pray for Archbishop Viganò. Sign the petition here.
August 31, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – Disgraced ex-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick continued making public appearances after Pope Benedict XVI had imposed sanctions upon him because “he didn’t obey” the Holy Father, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganó told LifeSiteNews in an exclusive interview.
The former papal nuncio to the U.S. responded to efforts in the media to question his testimony that Pope Francis covered-up for McCarrick while knowing of his reputation for sexual abuse of seminarians and priests. Viganó reiterated in the interview that he had spoken with McCarrick about the restrictions Benedict had put upon him, but that as nuncio he did not have authority to enforce those restrictions.
“I was not in the position of enforcing,” Viganó told LifeSiteNews, “especially because the measures (sanctions) given to McCarrick (were made) in a private way. That was the decision of Pope Benedict.”
Viganó said Pope Benedict made McCarrick’s sanctions private, perhaps “due to the fact that he (McCarrick) was already retired, maybe due to the fact that he (Benedict) was thinking he was ready to obey.”
But, McCarrick, “certainly he didn’t obey,” Viganó told LifeSiteNews.
Various media outlets have published reports attempting to cast into doubt Viganó and his detailed testimony released August 25 implicating Pope Francis and other top prelates in covering up for McCarrick despite knowing he was a serial sexual abuser of seminarians and priests.
One of the elements of Viganó’s testimony being questioned is whether Benedict, in fact, had put restrictions on McCarrick after learning about the allegations against the former Washington D.C. archbishop.
An August 29 video produced by the US Bishops’ Catholic News Service (CNS) casts uncertainty on whether Benedict had placed sanctions on McCarrick sometime between 2009 and 2010, as Viganó had said in his testimony.
The video shows clips of McCarrick testifying before Congress in March 2011 on behalf of the USCCB, a January 2012 ad limina visit at the Vatican during which McCarrick concelebrated Mass and met twice with Benedict, and another May 2012 event sponsored by the Pontifical Mission Societies honoring McCarrick at which Viganó had spoken.
Viganó told LifeSiteNews he had already spoken to McCarrick at the time of the latter video clip, repeating the measures that had been taken to him by Pope Benedict, which his predecessor the late Archbishop Pietro Sambi had done as well.
Viganó, nuncio from October 2011 to April 2016, explained he was just beginning his role as the Pope’s representative at the time when each of the events in the various video clips edited together by CNS took place, and just learning the culture and hierarchy of his new assignment in the U.S.
Aside from just beginning in his mission, he said, the nuncio is not somebody who may enforce restrictions directly, especially with a cardinal, who is considered the superior. Such an enforcement would belong to someone in the position of Cardinal Donald Wuerl, Archbishop of Washington, and McCarrick successor, said Viganó.
Another clip from the CNS video showing McCarrick attending an ad limina visit in Rome and meeting Pope Benedict, seems to suggest that the cardinal had no sanctions placed on him. Viganó explained that once again, McCarrick was not obeying the restrictions placed on him and that it was inconceivable for Benedict to take the issue up with the cardinal right then and there with all the other bishops present.
“Can you imagine Pope Benedict, as mild a character as he was, saying, 'What are you doing here?' in front of the other bishops,” Viganó said.
Another clip from the CNS video showing Viganó attending the Pontifical Mission Societies gala along with McCarrick seems to suggest that McCarrick had no sanctions and that Viganó was not anxious in the cardinal’s presence. Viganó told LifeSiteNews that he could neither forego attending the event, nor did he have an opportunity during the event to remind the cardinal of the sanctions.
“I could not say, “What are you doing here?” he said. “Can you imagine? Nobody knows (about the sanctions), it was a private meeting (when they were levied by Benedict). So this video didn’t prove anything.”
Proof of sanctions levied against McCarrick during Benedict’s papacy is not confined to Viganó’s testimony.
A June 2014 Washington Post piece headlined, “Globe-trotting Cardinal Theodore McCarrick is almost 84, and working harder than ever,” highlighted just how ubiquitous McCarrick was after Francis was elected. The report confirmed he’d been sidelined by Benedict, only to re-emerge under Francis.
“McCarrick is one of a number of senior churchmen who were more or less put out to pasture during the eight-year pontificate of Benedict XVI,” the Post piece states. “But now Francis is pope, and prelates like Cardinal Walter Kasper (another old friend of McCarrick’s) and McCarrick himself are back in the mix, and busier than ever.”
The article also includes the previously reported exchange between Francis and McCarrick in which Francis was reported to have joked that the devil wasn’t ready for McCarrick in hell.
The Washington Post story uses the exchange as an introduction to “the improbable renaissance that McCarrick (was) enjoying” under Francis. It says:
“I guess the Lord isn’t done with me yet,” he told the pope.
“Or the devil doesn’t have your accommodations ready!” Francis shot back with a laugh.
McCarrick loves to tell that story, because he loves to tell good stories and because he has a sense of humor as keen as the pope’s. But the exchange also says a lot about the improbable renaissance that McCarrick is enjoying as he prepares to celebrate his 84th birthday in July (2014).
Detailing a handful of McCarrick’s international visits after Francis’s March 2013 election, the Washington Post article stated:
“Sometimes McCarrick’s travels abroad are at the behest of the Vatican, sometimes on behalf of Catholic Relief Services. Occasionally the U.S. State Department asks him to make a trip.”
“But Francis, who has put the Vatican back on the geopolitical stage, knows that when he needs a savvy back channel operator he can turn to McCarrick, as he did for the Armenia trip,” it added.
McCarrick, named a cardinal in 2001, retired in 2006, the Post article recounted, “and was sort of spinning his wheels under Benedict. Then Francis was elected, and everything changed.”
Later in the piece, McCarrick lauds Benedict, and infers that if he’d been asked, he would have done what Benedict wanted “to bring the church back to where he thought it should be”:
“Pope Benedict is a wonderful man, and was a good friend of mine before he became pope,” McCarrick said. “But he was anxious to bring the church back to where he thought it should be, and I guess I wasn’t one of those who he thought would help him on that. I would have obviously done what he asked.”
Editor's note: John-Henry Westen and Pete Baklinski contributed to this report.
God bless Vigano!
signed and sent around to my faithful friends
Still praying that the truth will come out and that people will be helped
It looks as though that prayer is being answered one day at a time
Bishop Robert Barron calls for an investigation into Viganò’s allegations of abuse coverup. (min 16:05)
In relation to Vigano report he said "What is the truth here, only the truth will set us free!" Barron exclaims."Is the Christ that purifies his Church now at work? Yes! And I would say as a good Thomist, working through secondary causes. Like for example, the indignation of the Catholic people...like for example, the anger of the laity...like for example, the anger of priests and bishops at their brothers that have done such horrible things." "What is repugnant to the truth is repugnant to Him the Lord, what is congruent with the truth is congruent with Him, the closer we get to the truth of things the more we are cooperating with the Lord who operates in his Church."
Towards the end he talks about spiritual warfare, and how "you' be naive in extreme" to deny the demonic power is here at work. "Our job is to get in the army of Mary the Queen and Christ the King and fight with them for the purification of our Church. Yes through penance, through prayer, through fasting, and though raising one's voice! through calling out the Bishops! whatever means we have to use to cooperate with Christ the King in his purifying work. That's the spiritual call of our time."
He is calling the laity to action. The interview is pretty good.
For someone as moderate as him - he seems to usually want to avoid controversy - it means that things are getting really really serious here. It means that bishops and cardinals are talking between them. I am glad he is speaking clearly because many may people listen to him in the US.
And the full interview:
Jarg, Thank you for posting this. I find some of Bishop Barron's laughter to be strange and therefore he gives me an uncomfortable feeling at times.
I do like that he has stated that this crisis is due to multiple things; homosexuality, clericalism and evil in general.
I also like his final thoughts that ultimately we are advocating for the victims and they should be the focus of our attention.
Today, I keep thinking that some clergy have looked at this crisis from the point of view that the victims are to blame at least in part because some of them have actually said this. This reminds a lot of when the #Metoo movement first started and people wanted to place the blame on the women who were abused. I also keep thinking that many people in the world would not be so shocked to hear that members of the clergy violated a woman, people would have such and such reasons for saying that this sort of thing is to be expected, etc. and I think that you all have heard this in the past. I am not saying that I agree with this, not at all - no way but I wonder if some in the hierarchy have those same opinions towards clergy whom they believe were homosexual or had the tendencies of such and therefore they are not shocked by this crisis the way that they should be.
Any sexual abuse is abuse, whether it is from a man to a woman, or a man to a man and it needs to be handled as such - abuse, a crime.
Edited to add:
I'm not sure what the punishment should be for these crimes. I suggested that each abuser should be dropped off on a deserted island but what is really bothering me a lot about Cardinal McCarrick'a case is that it appears that he was given a punishment, a lenient one IMHO and he chose to ignore it and now here we are with this crisis.
Apparently this is where Cardinal McCarrick will be doing his penance! Not exactly a cave is it? I wonder how many staff there will be. US Catholics should be asking for their money back. Look what they do with it.
Finally got the real 3rd secret text "In the first 1/2 of the 21st century the church will lose sight of it's core mission to make statements on global warming. A minor child abuse and clerical homosexual situation will take the focus off the churches need to demand governments take all in all migrants. The churches failure to address these important mandates, clearly hidden in the scriptures, will cause all sorts of bad things and stuff"
Pfff, that's not the real third secret. The real one blames the root of all this evil.
Separate names with a comma.