If Pope Francis is right, and those who hold to tradition are Idolaters and Rebels , then that would make all the Saints and previous Popes Idolaters and Rebels. True or false?
Fatima, We are small strokes in a grand picture. Immediate conversion is probably not in our job description and we shouldn't expect it. We are a few gentle words or actions...so that we touch souls. We never know when it will take hold and sprout. We might lay the seed and others will water or the seed is there and we are the water. It is not our plan and it is not our time. All we can do is try to grow spiritually stronger...so others might follow our example. Everyone thinks God want him or her to do something grand. It so far from the truth...God wants us to be a saint. That's it...nothing more nothing less. If God sends you on mission, He will be very direct. And most saints don't get the direct call from God...because God knows the pain and suffering His closest disciples must suffer. He protects His children, therefore most of us are everyday saints with ordinary lives. But who is to say we can't be as holy as any rockstar Saint. Who is more Holy the everyday Saint or the rockstar Saint? May Gods Will be Done
It is never worng to go to the feet of the saints to ask for advise. St Paul warns that we must work out our Salvation in, 'Fear and trembling'. I suspect that the feelings of most souls who are first thrown into hell is a feeling of real ghastly surpirse that they find themselves there. If anyone at all points out that something is amiss whith our actions I think we have a duty to exercise a prayerful discernment, but this is a million times more so when that someone is a reigning Pontiff. There is never anything at wrong with checking our consciences. Being sure can often be a blessing, being too sure can often be a curse. When we go to confession the Church herself has taught us to do this. So we pray to heaven to the angles and saints to help us to mmake a good confession: Confiteor Deo et beatae Mariae semper virgini, et beati Michaeli archangelo et beato Iohanni baptistae et sanctis apostolis Petro et Paulo et beato Leutherio et Cassiano et beato Iuvenale cum omnibus sanctis et tibi patri mea culpa III vic., peccavi per superbiam in multa mea mala iniqua et pessima cogitatione, locutione, pollutione, sugestione, delectatione, consensu, verbo et opere, in periurio, in adulterio, in sacrilegio, omicidio, furtu, falso testimonio, peccavi visu, auditu, gustu, odoratu et tactu, et moribus, vitiis meis malis. Precor beatam Mariam semper virginem et omnibus sanctis et isti sancti et te pater, orare et intercedere per me peccatore Dominum nostrum Ies. Christum. I confess to God and to blessed Mary ever-Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel and blessed John the Baptist and to the holy apostles Peter and Paul and to blessed Leutherius and Cassian and blessed Juvenal along with all the saints and you Father: through my fault (thrice) I have sinned by pride in my abundant evil iniquitous and heinous thought, speech, pollution, suggestion, delectation, consent, word and deed, in perjury, adultery, sacrilege, murder, theft, false witness, I have sinned by sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, and in my behaviour, my evil vices. I beg blessed Mary ever-Virgin and all the saints and these saints[3] and you, Father, to pray and intercede for me a sinner to our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is nothing wrong with going to the angels and saints and constantly asking advise on a thorny subject, nothing wrong whatsoever. You are very much mistaken
You guys are too much and youlike to push people's buttons. http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/201...e_christians_are_rebels_and_idolaters/1201825 The homily is beautiful...do not be afraid to open your heart to the Holy Spirit. May Gods Will be Done
Our Lady warned that there would be, 'Great Confusion,' in the Church. I realise I had just no idea. I do now. The work of course of Satan.
I see Mac is up to his old trad tricks. Pope Francis never ever said that those who hold on to Tradition are wrong. He did say that those who refuse to obey and change according to legitimate and necessary direction are in error. There is a world of difference between Traditionalists and those who hold on to Tradition. Macs Trads are the ones who are in breach of Tradition. Mac is the one who has rebelled and rejected the Tradition observed by Popes and Saints throughout the ages. He no longer gets me angry but he is not getting away with his obfuscation. (I think that's the word.)
It is not as simple as left versus right or liberals versus conservatives. AL is a sign of the times and in of itself. The exhortation is a triumph of ambiguity over clarity and like many of the Vatican II documents will be misinterpreted and manipulated to suit the agenda of the progressives. As far as I can make it out there is confusion all around and it is not just confined to the 'far right' as you say. To conclude - confusion reigns. Confusion reigns from top to bottom and from bottom to top.
With all due respect to Pope Francis but I am sure I am not the only one who at times hasn't a clue what he is on about? Who is he talking about? Who is he talking to? He speaks a very strange language sometimes - he condemns others then says 'Who am I to judge'? Sometimes his speeches are hard to understand because they contain internal contradictions. For those who think I am Pope bashing, I am not. I am merely pointing out the fact that I find the Pope very difficult to make out.
Welcome back Joe. The Pope recently praised Mother Teresa for being the face of mercy to the poor.. She insisted on pro-life doctrine at all times and wasn't afraid to embarrass pro-abortion politicians and leaders. The Pope also recently praised Padre Pio for being a source of Divine mercy in the confessional. They were doctrinal hard line Catholics. So according to the Pope's own logic they were guilty of the sin of 'divination' (whatever that is?).
Bishop Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary bishop of the diocese of Maria Santissima in Astana, Kazakhstan. The Catholic Church is facing widespread internal confusion about doctrine and morals and God can use the laity to preserve the Church’s integrity. Mr. Fülep: At a theological conference in Rome in December 2010 you proposed the need for a new Syllabus” in which papal teaching authority should correct erroneous interpretations of the documents of the Second Vatican Council. What do you think nowadays? His Excellency Bishop Schneider: I think that, in our time of confusion, it is absolutely necessary to have such a Syllabus. Syllabus means a list, an enumeration of dangers, confused statements, misinterpretations and so on; an enumeration of the most wide-spread and common errors in every area such as dogma, morals and liturgy. On the other hand, one should also clarify and positively assess the same points. It will come surely because the Church has always issued very clear clarifications, especially after times of confusion.
Not really the Prodigal Son Padraig. He came back repentent. Joe has come back as joyful as ever Im not suggesting obsessing. 'I see Mac is up to his old trad tricks. Pope Francis never ever said that those who hold on to Tradition are wrong. He did say that those who refuse to obey and change according to legitimate and necessary direction are in error. There is a world of difference between Traditionalists and those who hold on to Tradition. Macs Trads are the ones who are in breach of Tradition. Mac is the one who has rebelled and rejected the Tradition observed by Popes and Saints throughout the ages. He no longer gets me angry but he is not getting away with his obfuscation. (I think that's the word.)'
Some obsessions are not only good but also necessary. Rest assured Mac, whenever your SSPX agenda muddies the water I will not be far away with the filter of truth, not my truth, but the truth of Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church not the corruption of Traditionalism that will never bow or bend to Papal Authority and that has rejected and rebelled against the Church since Pius X. My only concern is if members here ever get the impression you are talking from a point of view of Tradition rather than Traditionalist obsevation. In my view this is a magnificent obsession. I will always remain polite and as impersonal as I can manage but I will not mince my words. I will not obfuscate ((I checked the meaning and it's the right word )
Just to be clear I love the old Rites and Rubrics but the way they have been used by Trads is not right.
I felt a little lonely without out you Joe. Glad you are back. Hammer away at me if you must . Just try to look at the bigger picture, Be honest about authentic prophecy. And be honest about Amoris Laetitia. I know it is hard to accept that the document is a mess. But you dont need to turn to TRAD sources to work that out. AMORIS LAETITIA: POPE FRANCIS HAS CREATED CONFUSION WHERE WE NEEDED CLARITY http://www.thetablet.co.uk/blogs/1/...has-created-confusion-where-we-needed-clarity
