Part one or part two of my post? If you agree with the Church's perenial teaching on the sacraments for divorced and remarried, that's wonderful and I offer my sincere apologies for misunderstanding your intent. But David (and most liberals including Forte, Kasper abd Marx) agree with me that this pope is responsible for this change. So why castigate me but ignore him?
Brian, I think that Joes love of and loyalty to Our Holy Father is commendable. However I can see that this latest Exhoration of Our Father is somewhat lacking in being definitive. I believe Joe and you are 2 good Catholic people that are 'trying to remain faithful while also asking questions' and both of you are doing this in different ways. As Catholics we all must remain faithful to both Catholic tradition and also to Our Holy Father. At the moment it seems we sort of can't do both and this is the dilemma. I think DeGaulle says it best in his post
DeGaulle says many commendable things. Unfortunately Forte is a close friend of this pope, was a student of Cardinal Martini who advocated this agenda (as was this pope a student of Cardinal Martini), Kasper and Marx are overjoyed their agenda won, and with Schonborne are already doing it, and I see no reason whatsoever that Forte would have lied about this.
This is the post that lead me to think Joe agreed with David that 1) the pope is behind sacraments for divorced and remarried (d&r from now on) and that 2) Joe agreed with this. My apologies for thinking that Joe shares David's heterodox position.
In the same ways you are insinuating Our Holy Father and Forte are from the same mold. Nonsense Your Friend, Brother al
I, like you think both Joe and David are defending the Pope but I would call neither heterodox. What I couldn't understand in your post was that 'David agrees with you'? I now understand that you were not saying that David agrees with you but that David agrees with a sentiment about the Holy Fathers responsibility, in regards to the AL. The sentiment being 'that this pope is responsible for this change'. I found it hard to decipher in your original post. God Bless you all
David believes both 1) this pope is behind the Sacraments for d&r and that 2) this pope has the authority to make that change and 3) that change is good. Since that change violates scripture and 2000 years of Church teaching, David's position is indeed heterodox. He and I and Forte, Kasper, Marx and Schonborne agree this pope supports sacraments for the d&r. You too!
Pope Francis does not believe in the sacraments for the unrepentant D&M. He believes that the pathways to reconciliation should be clear and cleared, non threatening, non judgmental, level and accessible, welcoming and inclusive, encouraging and supportive, marked with the signpost of Mercy and safety for all who are trying to find their way home and those who have all but lost hope of ever again feeling at home in the Church. As for me, I am content to remain a fool for Christ, if this is what it takes to win souls.
Some want a Christ without the Cross - 'come down and we will believe'. Some even want a Church without Christ. Those who deny the Cross deny Christ. But Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. There is no such thing as an 'ordinary' Christian. To say or intimate so would be to concede that there are two kinds of Christians. We are all called to be extraordinary which is what holiness is. We are called to holiness through prayer and sacramental union with God and this is achievable by all members of the body of Christ. I have known saints in my lifetime from all backgrounds and abilities because they have surrendered all for the love of God and followed the narrow path of salvation. Their burdens were real and their paths scattered with suffering but they continued to love even amidst purification. The cross is central to the walk of the Christian. It is the indeed the mark of the Christian.
This is a special time of Mercy for those who have special needs. It reminds me of he time when Judas referred to the use of expensive oil on the feet of Jesus as a wasted opportunity to help the poor. "You will always have the poor with you but you will not always have me." This special presence of Mercy will be gone shortly. Pope Francis is pouring the precious oil of mercy on the feet of all who are in need.
But the Church has always been inclusive and merciful to the sinner for the signpost of mercy is the confessional where Christ sits awaiting the prodigals to return home. Unless of course you are of the opinion that the confessional is a 'torture chamber'.
Yes, we still live in a time of grace and mercy. Followed by a time of judgement. The judgement of God begins with the house of God and we see this in the exposure of the sin from within the body of Christ in the revealing the cancer of child abusing clerics who were given a free reign to perpetrate their evil. Such corruption could not have happened unless the doors were opened for the smoke of satan to enter into the windswept house. Woe to the scribes and Pharisees who turned a blind eye to the suffering children.
Does this mean that sex with anyone other than your spouse will revert to being adultery in November at the conclusion of this special year of mercy, or is absolution in advance here forever? Sorry, Joe, I couldn't resist it.
Yes, the confessional is a cross. Because it is not easy to confess our sins and faults to another but that is why Christ instituted the sacrament because mercy is not cheap. It is purchased by the precious blood. Unless we die like a grain of wheat to the earthliness within us then we will not gain eternal life. The judgement is much worse than the confessional. For in the Light of God's Holy Justice He finds fault with everything. It is a terrible thing to go before the tribunal of God even though He is Divine Mercy He is also a Just Judge.
