It seems ironic that Ron Conte cited Matthew 7. Isn't the point Christ is making at the beginning of the chapter that we're supposed to recognize the Law and not to try to decide for ourselves what's right and wrong? I realize "Judge not" is generally applied to individuals but I think the point was obedience to the Father through obedience to what's already been judged during the separation that occurred on the first day of creation. I'm not a priest (or theologian) but that's my take.
So. Is this Heresy or not? AL Paragraph 297 It is a matter of reaching out to everyone, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial community and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous” mercy. No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone, in whatever situation they find themselves.
I think Pope Francis is speaking of people being kept out of the ecclesial community (Church). The reference to those condemned are those who are judged by people in the Church because they may be 'public sinners' but that everyone can be touched by grace if invited into the fold. Francis' vision of the Church as a field hospital comes to mind here - that sinners are invited into the banquet hall not condemned and rejected. His vision of Church is one where everyone is invited in.
I know how passionate you are about honoring the sanctity of marriage, Mac, so please answer for us the question you pose: "Is this Heresy or not?"
Im not sure Joe. I do know that it is crap. Just not sure it is heresy. I was hoping some of the forums sharper minds might take a look.
With answers lie that, Mac, you should have been a Jesuit - a dodgy Jesuit. Sorry my mind is not sharp enough. Looks like that in your opinion The Holy Father may be a Heretic and a liar and full of crap. What a good Catholic opinion of him you have. One more question to dodge - are you suggesting that Pope Francis did remember the footnote?
It doesnt matter. Maybe his buddies who do theology on their knees wrote it. Maybe he has Alzheimers . What a waste of time 2years of Synod has been if the Pope doesnt even know what you are trying to defend . What a joke.
Thank you for your answer. I suppose that is the best you can do but thank you for trying. I was trying to set my Avatar but the photo ended up here. You see I am not very bright either.
In a strange way I am finding the dissecting of the AL very edifing because through this process we can establish whether what is written adheres or not, to the teaching and doctrines of the Catholic Church. This process applied to all new teachings and writings will hopefully protect our faith. In the above qoute Mac I think we just have to add a couple of things, that I think the Holy Father took for granted we already knew. The additions are in purple. AL Paragraph 297 It is a matter of reaching out to everyone to spread the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial community whether that be through, education in truth, understanding how sin grieves the Love of God or through repentance and confession, and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous” mercy. In our earthly life here, No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel and we have been commanded by Our Lord to speak the truth to all! Here I am not speaking only of the the sin of divorced and remarried, without annullment, but of all the sins of everyone, in whatever situation and sin they find themselves.
Your interpretation while commendable is not really good enough. Are we to assume your interpretation has to be correct? Why are lay folk expected to come up with theories/excuses , when confronted with Heresy. This is exactly where the church is heading. Where everyone will come up with their own interpretation.And every interpretation is correct. Unless you hold to tradition. In which case you are an Idolater and Rebel.
Again Mac I do not know how to best respond to your comments without some clarification. You continue to refer to heresy with regard to the Pope's Exhortation. Are you saying that the Pope is guilty of Heresy. Please share your honest and frank opinion with us. Right or wrong, in your opinion is the Pope a heretic.
I answered you fairly the other day Joe. Dont pressure me into a rash judgement. If you ask me again I will for the first time ever have to use the ignore button.
I'm a bit surprised no one has posted Bishop Schneider's response to the Pope's exhortation. It's almost as long as the Pope's document! So I'm actually going to post a link from the anti Francis rorate coeli website (a first for me): http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/04/official-response-of-bishop-athanasius.html Needless to say, I would advise people to read Cardinal Schonborn's presentation of the exhortation as Pope Francis has recommended: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-new...-laetitia-is-a-continuation-of-what-john-pau/
I my humble opinion Josephite your thoughts are spot on and perfectly good enough. This opinion requires no assumption, just good discernment. I won't waste any more time with Mac. You pressing the ignore button will not help me. I will still see your comments and others will still see my responses. My responses will be reasonable and polite but will try to show others your true colours. I am pleased to see that you refer to your opinion of Pope Francis as a rash judgment. At last we agree.
Do you believe "nobody can be condemned forever" in the eternal sense? If so, this would make you a heretic (nobody in Scripture mentions Hell as often as Our Lord-He wasn't joking). One has to hope that Pope Francis is merely referring to worldly time, but the problem is the ambiguity. If Pope Francis meant eternal time, he would have taken it upon himself to contradict Christ Himself, not to mention Our Lady, The Church, the Fathers and the Saints. The ambiguity is why yourself and Mac are having this conflict. If Pope Francis wrote plainly this wouldn't be the case.
