Me too. I’ve turned a corner today. It’s time for me to move on from my present situation and rejoin the battles. It wouldn’t be appropriate for me to do so where I am now. But this day has left me energized and light hearted - in a very good way.
Wow, this really makes it appear to be an organized world-wide brainwashing. I never heard of Pachamama until recently but someone is making sure that children will learn about this. Absolutely, 100%.
On an extremely Machiavellian note...the church was left empty and unguarded. Surely anyone with any sense in their heads would have placed at least one guard. Or at least an overseer. After all, this is the most important synod of this papacy. Millions have been spent on it. This particular church was the epicenter of all of the angst. The place where the honored guests were to be located. And the idols were left in an unlocked empty church with no one keeping watch over them... Hmmm
This is so disturbing to peddle this to kids. https://variety.com/2019/film/news/juan-antin-pachamama-netflix-1203234736/
Faithful Catholics Throw Amazonian Idols Displayed in the Vatican into the Tiber River The Amazon Synod has been full of scandal. It started when the opening ceremony in the Vatican garden was full of earth worship and what appeared to be idol worship happening right in front of the pope with his blessing. One doesn't have to be an art major to recognize ancient fertility goddesses. The ensuing outrage that occurred among traditional Catholics went unanswered by Rome. In the face of this silence, unidentified Catholics took matters into their own hands and walked into the church next to St. Peter's where the images were displayed and removed them and threw them into the Tiber. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=QfQYHbX38ig This is exactly what the prelates who refused to explain themselves to the faithful deserved. The responses given to questions about the idols were completely incoherent. Life Site News reported, The precise identity of the mysterious carved female statue used in a ceremony in the Vatican Gardens is still unknown as the Vatican insists it signifies “fertility and life,” while volunteers where the statue is on display describe it as “Mother Earth” and “Pachamama.” In response to a question from LifeSite at Friday’s synod press briefing, Paolo Ruffini, president of the Amazon synod’s information commission, reiterated that he believed the unclothed pregnant female statue, which indigenous people also carried in procession into St. Peter’s Basilica and has appeared frequently during the synod, represents a “symbol of fertility and life.” Pachamama, or Mother Earth is a pagan idol. Period. There is no argument otherwise. It is the same fertility goddess to which ancient cultures sacrificed children. This is not a depiction of Mary the mother of Christ, as some have claimed. And if it were supposed to be, it would still be a scandalous depiction, violating the Church's standard of modesty and stripping Mary of her dignity by removing her clothes. Depicting Mary as a different race is common and acceptable. Depicting her as a naked fertility goddess is not. But even the bishops don't claim it is the Virgin Mary. Bishop David Martínez de Aguirre Guinea of Peru tried to explain it, badly. Probably those who used this symbol demonstrated, wishes to reflect fertility, to women, to life, the life presence among these Amazonian people … and Amazonia is meant to be full of life. I don’t think we need to create any connections with the Virgin Mary or with a pagan element. I got A's in Art History. This thing is a pagan fertility goddess. Prostrating before carved images of fertility goddesses is not Catholic. Catholic images depict real people who lived holy lives to remind the faithful of the goal of finishing this life well and of what awaits us in heaven. Icons are the visual history of the faith, a constant reminder of all the saints alive in heaven and their lives of sacrifice here on earth. Catholics do not worship images of saints. For more on that see the difference between veneration and idol worship. The group that took the idols and tossed them into the river issued a statement. This was done for only one reason: Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, his Blessed Mother, and everybody who follows Christ, are being attacked by members of our own Church. We do not accept this! We do not longer stay silent! We start to act NOW! Because we love humanity, we cannot accept that people of a certain region should not get baptized and therefore are being denied entrance into heaven. It is our duty to follow the words of God, like our holy Mother did. There is not second way of salvation. Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat!” The group referenced a statement that has been widely attributed to the head of the Amazon Synod, Bishop Erwin Krautler, "I have not yet baptized an Indian, and I also will not do it." This statement has not been denied by Krautler. Baptism is a key sacrament in the Catholic faith and the Church teaches that one cannot enter heaven without it. The Catholic Church has been thrown into a state of total confusion since Pope Francis ascended to the seat of St. Peter. His silence and the silence of Church leaders and crucial issues of the faith have created chaos and division between the left-wing and traditional Catholics. George Neumayer wrote a terrific opinion piece in The Spectator that is a must-read relating to these issues. Tourists in Rome are long familiar with the image of Romulus and Remus suckling the teats of a wolf. But this week visitors to the Pan-Amazon Synod encountered a new image: an Amazonian mother suckling a dog. That picture hangs in a church next to the Vatican: Santa Maria in Traspontina. I wandered into it the other day and was struck by the jarring contrast between its stunning Baroque interior and the bonkers propaganda plastered on and near its walls. Much of the church had been turned into a shrine to the plight and nature-worship of Amazonians. Beneath the picture of the woman nursing a dog (while carrying a baby), a poster declares fatuously, “Everything is Connected.” The poster captures the sheer obnoxiousness of the pope’s “ecological” kick. What a dismal devolution Rome has suffered under him. What will he do next? Turn the Pantheon back into a pagan temple? Why not? If Amazonian pantheism is a “religious experience” worthy of Catholic respect, why not revive ancient paganism, too? Perhaps the pope’s next synod can rehabilitate Nero. The far left, neo-marxism taking over the Catholic Church has reached a boiling point and the faithful appear to have had enough. We have been watching bishops dither around, excusing themselves from investigations when it comes to sexual abuse, refuse to answer legitimate questions about the change in the death penalty teaching, divorce, and now idol worship. They're out of their minds. It's time for action. Congratulations to the brave souls who acted in the footsteps of Christ who took a whip and drove the unclean things out of the house of God. Father Mark Goring has posted a great video about what has occurred saying he is surprised it hadn't happened sooner. https://pjmedia.com/faith/faithful-...isplayed-in-the-vatican-into-the-tiber-river/
The purpose of the Synod is to use it as a back door to incorporate the Liberation Theology of Gustavo Gutierrez into the Magisterial teaching of the Universal Church. It's all about Liberation Theology whose proponents believe was the real reason for Vatican 11 and is the real "spirit" of Vatican 11. One of the founders of Liberation Theology, a Peruvian and Dominican theologian, Gutierrez studied in Europe and was heavily influenced by Catholic and Protestant ultra liberal theologians. The language of Gutierrez is the language of Pope Francis. Read from page 19 of the attached: http://catdir.loc.gov/catdir/samples/cam032/98020489.pdf Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict had enough supernatural faith to see the errors of Liberation Theology. Especially so in the case of Pope John Paul who had suffered under Marxism. Pope Benedict had been sympathetic to LT and had written a book favourable to it when he was a young Cardinal but later had a change of attitude towards it. They stopped the complete takeover of the Church by the Liberation Theology movement but they didn't manage to kill it off because its adherents continued to push it throughout the Church. Benedict's resignation and the election of Pope Francis was a dream come through for them. Read this from Peter Hebblethwaite: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/03064228308533589 That was written during the papacy of Pope John Paul 11. Note the final sentence: "There will be another pontificate". Peter Hebblethwaite was an English Jesuit priest and editor of a Jesuit monthly publication. He left the priesthood to marry Margaret Speaight, an English feminist theologian. Peter went into journalism and became editor of the National Catholic Reporter. He died in 1994. Margaret was Assistant Editor of the Tablet (an English Catholic paper similar to the National Catholic Reporter) from 1991 to 2000. She went on to be a freelance missionary worker in Paraguay where she did community work in education. From Margaret Hebblethwaite's wikipedia page: She knows Pope Francis since meeting him in Buenos Aires and has had regular dealings with him, having conversed with him in pews after Sunday mass. She has described him as "not only passionately committed to the gospel of poverty, but also highly intelligent and cultured." In 2005, when he was in Rome for that year's conclave, she "dropped off a letter for him." He also provided her with some contacts, including "a well-informed Argentinian journalist in Rome, and his then press secretary, Guillermo Marcó." And this piece from Guillermo Marco (Cardinal Bergoglio's press secreatry) is interesting: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/lo-unico-que-vale-es-la-palabra-oficial-nid1694249 According to Marco: "He did not give interviews, but I did, I was his voice for journalists knowing that a "spokesperson" can be wrong and ceases to be; If the archbishop wrong, it burns."
Fr Mark spoke about, 'Showing respect for other religions'. But I do not believe this to be true. Or at least always true. For instance I know there is a Spiritualist , 'Church' near me were worship Sessions consist of Mediumship, of calling down , 'Spirits' and going by their guidance. This is, in fact an evil practice. I am not quite sure how I am to , 'Respect ' this. Also Idol Worship , am I supposed to, 'Respect', this? But why should I respect this? For what reason? It is false and dangerous. Why should I , 'respect' what is false and dangerous? Respect is never a given. Respect is earned.
Anyone who tried to retrieve anything from the Tiber would die a million deaths. It is a putrid soup, just about the filthiest river I have ever seen in my life. But if you are ever in Rome it is the loveliest quiet walk to go down the steps and walk right beside it. Hardly anyone ever does this. It is so very,very quiet. They have been dumping dead bodies and animals in the Tiber for thousands of years. Other European rivers you always see boats going up and down. I don't think I've ever seen a single boat on the Tiber. It stinks.
The thing that must not be forgotten here is that events are happening in Rome and the Romans are the indigenous people there. It is the indigenous people of Rome who were offended and disrespected by outsiders who showed no consideration whatsoever for the local traditions and customs.
There are parts of America currently where satanists have been given equal rights in local political councils with other religions, for satanism is treated as a 'religion' by these people. This is where the Voodoo Vatican is taking us, it seems to me. There appears to be a globally concerted effort to destroy the Church. It is really sinister to note a child's film about Pachamamma (a word and being unknown to me until this month) which appears to have arrived just in time, something that would have needed much forward planning. As Sean pointed out, the idols were almost invited to be removed. It was a gracious act, but now could become the pretext for a persecution of the ordinary common Catholic. It fits with the rest of the global trend whereby the ordinary and the normative are being assailed from all sides by elitist-driven aggressive minorities for the crime of being, doing and believing what has always been the case.
I suspect that the idea that, 'All religions should be treated with respected ', is probably one that finds its roots in the Enlightenment. It is one of many core ideas you hear these days that sound wonderful until you take them away and think about them and unpack them. Then they kind of collapse before your eyes like cardboard boxes. It reminds me of the words of Socrates, 'The unexamined life is not worth living'. It has been one of the great blessings of the Present Pontificate of Pope Francis that so many of us have been forced to think. All previous Pontificates in my lifetime I pretty well took for granted that everything said and everything done was accepted almost without thought. That they and what they did would automatically be fine and good. This , I suspect , is where , Trad Catholics had the advantage of the rest of us. They had already begun to examine things several Pontiffs ago. They had practice in this matter. The rest of us had not. We are only wakening up to things now. Having to examine things is, I find it very hard work. But once having begun to do so I find I cannot stop. A part of me would like to go back to sleep. But if I fall back to sleep I might find myself waking up in hell. It has been said that, 'The price of Freedom. is Eternal Vigilance and a Willingness to Act in its Defense'. I am afraid we are rediscovering that the very same must be said about the Teachings of Our Holy Mother the Church. As with so much in Life we are not handed such things freely and without Cost and Sacrifice. We must pay for them, even with our Blood and Lives.
If all religions are to be treated with respect, it introduces a paradox. The religion that does not treat other religions with respect will be scapegoated and treated with no respect whatsoever (Mohammedanism is allowed to be an exception).
This is worth posting in it's entirety for many reasons but most importantly it includes a statement from the two saints who returned the statues to their rightful place, the Tiber River - the statues were liberated and are making there way back to the Amazon right now. Prayers for the two saints and the staff of the Church Militant also. Pachamama Drowned As it should be. October 21, 2019 TRANSCRIPT Good news at last from Rome and the Amazonian Synod — although the Vatican itself is furious over it. The pagan idols that the Vatican had brought into the synod were surreptitiously taken in the early hours of the morning from the Church they were located in and tossed into the Tiber River from the Ponte San Angelo. Here is the moment that five of the idols of Pachamama were pushed off the rail from the bridge and into the Tiber. It's uncertain precisely how many of the idols are in Rome — at least five were in the Church of Santa Maria Transpontina. But, in addition, there is at least one in the hall where the synod is actually going on and perhaps another simultaneously in St. Peter's Basilica. But in either case, there are at least five of them no longer desecrating the Church. Church Militant contacted those involved and received the following statement as to why they took the statues and threw them into the Tiber. This was done for only one reason: Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, his Blessed Mother, and everybody who follows Christ, are being attacked by members of our own Church. We do not accept this! We do not longer stay silent! We start to act NOW! Because we love humanity, we can not accept that people of a certain region should not get baptised and therefore are being denied entrance into heaven. It is our duty to follow the words of God like our holy Mother did. There is no second way of salvation. Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat! Of course, the Vatican is reacting with outrage — calling the action "theft." Prefect of Communications Paolo Ruffini provided the initial response. The Vatican response itself is now causing a stir among faithful Catholics who are sick and tired — fed up — with the constant pandering to false religions and disrespecting of traditional Catholicism. Undeterred, the Vatican followed up with more. What the incident proves and the Vatican response underscores is just how completely out of touch this pontificate is with the only Catholics who actually matter in a sense — the ones who believe. This was a necessary act. It had to be done. And hats off to those involved. The response from the Vatican, specifically Ruffini, shows that they just don't get it. He said the idols represent Mother Earth — exactly. That's the point. Mother Earth is a goddess in pagan cultures. Even in America, Wicca worships Mother Earth and New Age groupies call "her" Gaia. This is not some meaningless statue. It represents an entirely different and contradictory world view from that of the Church. It's disgusting they were even in Rome to begin with, and by now, they are probably somewhere out in the Mediterranean. "I am the Lord your God; you shall not have false Gods before me." Good work, men.
This pontificate wants to be out of touch with believing Catholics. That seems the direction of almost every significant act carried out during it. This pontificate has courted atheists, Mohammedans and now pagans. Those Catholics who are orthodox are dismissed as 'rigid', judgemental and now mere racists and thieves. On a lighter note, Father Hunwicke has suggested the episode be termed the "Depontification of Pachamama".
DeGaulle, The posts are coming way too fast for me now, lol and I can barely keep up. I just noticed that on the first page of this thread that Brian did post the statement from the two saints but I think it was worthwhile to repost it above. In any case, I am not sure if the following has been posted yet. I happened to read a Crux article about this subject and they had the following and this may be what Father Hunwicke is eluding to. I knew about this strange trial but I don't remember hearing about his remains being thrown into the Tiber River. In 896, a new pontiff named Stephen VI had risen to power under the patronage of Rome’s influential Spoleto family. The clan was still nursing a long-running grudge against an earlier pope, Formosus, who had backed their Carolingian rivals as Holy Roman Emperor. Thus it was that a year later, Stephen ordered the remains of Formosus to be dug up and placed on trial. The corpse was propped on a throne during the proceedings and a deacon was even appointed to speak for the defense - though, as historians note, not terribly aggressively. Stephen accused Formosus of various forms of heresy and usurpation, and the deceased pontiff was dutifully found guilty. His papacy was declared null, three fingers of his right hand used to administer blessings were sliced off, and his remains were then unceremoniously tossed into the Tiber, in keeping with longstanding Roman custom when the aim is a damnatio memoriae, obliterating even the memory of a vanquished foe. https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2...t-pope-francis-now-has-his-own-cadaver-synod/ Edited to add: It should be noted that this article does not have some of the facts straight about what occurred with the pagan idols that were thrown into the Tiber and I normally do not read their stuff but I fell for the click-bait title today.
Undoubtedly, the very learned Father Hunwicke had such incidents in mind on his play on words, which involves both a play on 'pontiff' and the Italian (or is it Latin?) word for bridge, 'ponte'. Of course, I'm absolutely sure that the good Father had no intent whatsoever to insinuate that Pope Francis receive the same treatment as the Pachamamas!
