May I ask if other Dioceses do this practice? It is where the congregation is asked to pray for people (for example...new catechumens, or a couple celebrating a wedding anniversary, or young people, etc....) and the priest asks us to raise our right hands in prayer to show that we are asking God's blessings over the people. Does anyone else's diocese ask the people to raise their right hand to bless. The reason is because this seems to have gained popularity in the last ten years or so and unfortunately the very gesture that we are asked to make for blessing has some history....ie the Roman salute, the Bellamy salute and even the Nazi salute. Please forgive me this question or my sinister thoughts about its origin, but it wouldn't surprise me if somebody unknowingly dreamt up having us all do this to make fools out of us.
I am just curious. Does anyone know why Mexico offered him sanctuary so firmly and swiftly? It seemed so strange. What could have been their interest in doing such a thing?
Don't bet your house on me, but I think Mexico has a new leftist government. Leftist governments in Mexico tend to lurch to the extreme quite quickly. These demons stick together.
I haven't seen anything like that here in the Diocese of Syracuse, NY. Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
I am not very good with words, unlike almost all on this forum, and I don't know how best to convey my inner conviction that the Church should return to the TLM exclusively. The NO mass falls short of the TLM in so many ways. That is of course, not surprising, because it was the intention of the Modernists/ infiltrators to make the mass all about man, and not exclusively about worshiping God, and to strip all Catholic prayers that would be a stumbling block to the Protestants. Thus, the emphasis on the 'participation' of man in the mass, without which, they claim, there is no Eucharist. (ref: Bugnini's reply to the Dominicans who asked whether priests can no longer celebrate private masses, where there is no laity present) and the emphasis on it being a supper/ meal instead of the Holy Sacrifice. The Lord’s Supper, or Mass, is a sacred synaxis, or assembly of the people of God gathered together under the presidency of the priest to celebrate the memorial of the Lord. (Pope Paul VI, Institutio Generalis, §7, 1969 version) The most striking thing for me, which I really cannot comprehend, is the absolute nonchalance about particles of the consecrated hosts (Jesus Himself) being dropped everywhere in the NO mass. If we believe in the Real Presence, why do we not take the utmost care not to desecrate the Eucharist like that? In the TLM, the priest is very scrupulous about keeping his finger and thumb pinched together, to prevent such desecration. And of course, Holy Communion is also given on the tongue only, while kneeling at the altar rail, which has a cloth over it to catch any crumbs that may escape the paten held below the chin. Imho, there are so many other reasons why the TLM is superior to the NOM. Some of the reasons, in no particular order: - the beauty of the TLM, with the beautiful liturgical vestments. (St John Vianney did not stinge on the vestments even though he himself normally wore torn and tattered garments, because he knew that God deserves only the best) (see below for the photos) - the sanctuary is kept holy, with no lay people traipsing around. (this reminds me of the Old Testament, where only one priest gets to go into the Holy of Holies) -the priest ascends to the altar, symbolising his ascent to the Holy Mountain of God, -the priest leads the people in worshipping God, all facing the same direction, so there is no question of the priest becoming the center of attraction/ focus -the priest faces the tabernacle, (where Jesus is truly present), which is in the center of the high altar -the prayers are all in Latin, which we are told by exorcists, is the language that is effective against satan and his minions -the mass is truly universal, being in the same language and form throughout the world. There is no necessity to know another language in order to follow the mass and respond, when one travels to other parts of the world. -the laity have time to offer their own prayers and petitions during the silent parts of the mass. With the NOM, all the required responses make it difficult to do so -the Pater Noster in the TLM does not end with the Protestant doxology of “for the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever, amen.” which was added to the NOM -no 'sign of peace' (which I personally dread in the NOM) -no one but the priest, with consecrated hands, touches the Holy Eucharist -Gregorian chant (vs modern hymns, some of the more well known ones being written by a former priest who is homosexual) -prayer to St Michael - overall sense of sacredness and transcendence in the TLM - as Abp Lefebvre said, "The Novus Ordo Missae, even when said with piety and respect for the liturgical rules ...is impregnated with the spirit of Protestantism. It bears within it a poison harmful to the faith."
A Priest’s View Of Latin Mass Vs. New Mass Father Carota January 29, 2015 Constantly I hear from people that they do not go to the Latin Mass because they do not understand Latin. (Some even think that the homily is in Latin.) So please, just for now, let us put aside the argument of the language; Latin or English and go to the prayers and actions that are part of the rubrics of the two masses. Let us also look at who is the center of focus and the way the people participate, dress and receive God in Holy Communion at the two masses. As a priest, I want to re-clarify what are the differences on how Jesus is treated in the two masses. This will be from my own stand point as a priest who has for years celebrated the New Mass in English and Spanish, and now, for the last 7 years offered the Ancient Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Most Catholics judge the two masses from their own subjective perspective and preferences. They are not priests. They are not offering the two masses and have no idea what it is like from the experience of the priest who offers the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass. From my view up on the altar, the difference between the Ancient Mass and the New Mass is like day and night. Archbishop Sample, from Portland Oregon, put it well when he said at the Sacra Liturgia Conference in Rome, that he wants all of his priests to learn and offer the Latin Mass because of the effect it has on them understanding their role as priests. He said that offering the Holy Latin Mass has changed him completely and now he finally understands the sacrificial aspect of his priesthood. I know, for the average Catholic who has had very little to no experience with the Latin Mass, the New Mass is just fine because it is all they have ever known or at which they feel comfortable and “at home with”. All over the world, the New Mass is all any Catholic is able to go to. That is all they know and that is all the knowledge they have to judge with. The orthodox Neo-Cats who are not traditional Catholics, are constantly complaining about the grave liturgical abuses by priests who do not follow the essential rubrics found in the New Roman Missal. Like when the celebrant changes the words of consecration, does not say the Creed at Sunday Mass, will not genuflect when required, gives communion to everyone, including non Catholics, who comes up at funerals or wedding, and all the other grave abuses they experience at the New Mass. But in essence, and for the most part, they are satisfied with the New Mass. Some Neo-Cats would prefer the New Mass in Latin or maybe said “ad orientam”. Here is a list of observations I have made while offering the Ancient Mass and the New Mass together. The whole focus of the Holy Latin Mass is on; adoring God, being at Calvary at the real un-bloody Sacrifice of Jesus being re-made present on the Cross, the priest asking Jesus to intercede to God His Father for the forgiveness of our sins, humbly praying that at this Sacrifice we may receive His salvation and graces. At the Sacrifice of the Holy Latin Mass, it is obvious that; God the Father is acting through Jesus His Son, Jesus is acting through the priest, in Persona Christi, There is hierarchy in Latin Mass, bishop, priest, religious, altar boys, lay people, like what is found in God’s Kingdom and the Catholic Church. The priest has the special role in praying to God. The priest prays in secret and in a low voice the sacred part of the Canon and the words of consecration. People accompany Mary and the Apostle St. John in contemplation at the foot of the cross, while Jesus is offering His life in sacrifice to the Father for our salvation. The people are assisting at Jesus’ Sacrifice on the cross for them. People humbly and passively receive God’s graces through interior prayer. People humbly receive Jesus in Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue. People pray and absorb the effects the Divine Mystery of the Holy Mass in silence. The Choir is up in the Choir loft accompanying the people in sacred songs. The choir sings anonymously for the glory of God and not to show off for the crowd. The Choir sings acapella or are accompanied by organ music. Gregorian Chant is sung to lift up people’s souls to God. The respect, adoration and protection given to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. There is only one way to offer the Holy Latin Mass and the rubrics must be obeyed. There are way more genuflections, bows and blessing to God done by the priest. No one, except the priest, can touch the Holy Chalice or Paten because they are consecrated to be only used to hold God’s Body and Blood. Once the priest has said the words of consecration, he never separates the thumbs and index fingers so that if by any chance there are tiny fragments of the Body of Jesus, they do not fall on the Altar or floor. The priest only drinks the Precious Blood of Jesus from one side of the Chalice so that when he will purify it, he can be sure he purifies where the Blood ran. When receiving the Body of Christ, the priest puts the paten under his chin incase any particles may fall on the altar.
He scrapes the corporal with the paten to be sure if at any time a particle of the Body of Christ ended on the corporal, he can put it into the chalice and be consumed with the Blood of Christ. Every time after the consecration, when the priest uncovers the chalice, he puts his fingers on the chalice so that it may never fall over and spill the Precious Blood of Jesus. The Body of Christ is only given with the assistance of the altar boy holding the paten so that no crumbs of Jesus may fall on the floor. No one ever touches God in Holy Communion, other than the priest. All people are obliged to kneel and receive Jesus on the tongue. After Holy Communion, the priest purifies the Chalice twice, once with wine and again with wine and water to be sure that he gets every drop of Jesus Precious Blood purified. The priest purifies the thumbs and index fingers with water and wine into the chalice to get any tiny particle of host into the chalice and consumed. People kneel in adoration and thanksgiving after Holy Communion. People pray and do not speak inside the church. Women cover their heads with veils. People dress in there Sunday best, very respectfully and modestly. The New Mass is focused on God, but at the same time, very much focused on the people. Instead of the focus of the Celebrant being in Persona Christi, his focus is on representing and presiding in the name of the congregation. The Celebrant faces the people, not God. In all reality, the Celebrant is the center of the “show”. Often he will make jokes. Little in the words of the New Mass are there much about the Sacrificial aspect of the mass. The new mass is centered much more on the “Remembering at the Last Supper”. There is no altar for a priestly sacrifice, just a wooden table. The presider always prays out loud so that people can hear him. The focus is on the people being very active by responding, hugging, standing, sitting, kneeling, singing and walking in procession to receive Holy Communion. There are many people envolved in the New Mass, like the Lectors and Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers. Many people are in or walk around the Sanctuary, like the Rock Band or other Choir members. Every kind of music and singing is allowed. The choir and musicians perform for the people and face them. The music played and sung are to make people feel happy, good, warm, and excited. Clapping is encouraged to congratulate people or while singing songs. Children and other people are often invited up around the altar to pray with the presider. Everyone loves it because the focus is on the cute children and the people. The celebrant sits at the presiders chair facing the people, not God. Everything is very external and not contemplative. Very little silence. Very little kneeling in adoration of God. The New Roman Missal has so many “pastoral” options in how to celebrate the mass. Many women come to mass dressed in sexy clothes, low necks, tight pants and shorts. Men come dressed in shorts. Lectors and Extraordinary ministers sometimes go up on the altar in sexy or inappropriate clothing. Before and after mass, people and priests talk and visit loudly in church. At the New Mass, Most people receive Holy Communion. They receive standing. They receive Jesus in the hand. Everyone has to stand until everyone has gone up together in procession to receive Holy Communion. There is very little time allowed after Holy Communion to meditate and thank God for coming into their souls. People usually sit and do not kneel after receiving Holy Communion. Large host are used to show that we are all one body, and when they are broken, large particles shoot all over the corporal, altar and floor. It has happened to me. Very rarely are patens used to catch the falling Body of Christ or crumbs. The floors of Catholic churches are full of particles of the Body of Christ that fall on the ground from the hands of people who receive in the hand and are being walked on by all the people. Everyone takes hold of the chalice given to them by the minister to receive the Blood of Christ. Many times the Precious Blood of Christ is spilled on people or the floor. Only priests are to purify the sacred vessels at mass, but often they are left for others to purify. The purification of the chalice is with water only. It is impossible for the priest to purify where all the people received from the upper most parts of the chalice that is rotated while administrating the Precious Blood by the Extraordinary Ministers. The final question (and the answer should make everyone who reads this article want to only go to the Holy Latin Mass) is: Do we truly believe that God/Jesus is in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar? If so God deserves adoration, respect and protection. As a priest who says the New Mass and the Latin Mass, the Latin Mass has by far more rubrics built right into the Latin Mass to protect the Body and Blood of Jesus from being desecrated in any manner. It clearly has the strong sacrificial component of the Holy Mass and priesthood. It does not have the protestant emphasis on the Last Supper and “doing this in remembrance of Me” like the Luther advocated. It also has prayers and gestures that facilitate more easily the adoration that Jesus deserves from us His creatures. And because of this, the Latin Mass pleases God way more than the New Mass. The original author of this blog passed away in July of 2016. RIP Father Carota. +
It is not the Novus Ordo mass that is an issue IMO. Father John Hardon SJ said a very reverent NO mass as he did a Latin mass at his men's retreat I attended often. It is true, however that many who say the NO mass are careless, but it is not because of the mass in the vernacular, rather careless clergy. We are dealing with a crisis with holy priests. One of the effects of this is sloppy masses said by many priests. But, I have attended very reverent NO masses in such place the cathedral in Sioux Falls, SD and several other parishes around which I can drive to. God is present in both the Novus Ordo and Latin mass, so I will not join the bandwagon against where God becomes present.
Fatima, I'm not attacking you, but I really am curious. How do you feel about the particles of the Eucharist dropping everywhere? +
I'm envious of your way with words, especially in a foreign language. Please be aware that I don't totally disagree with your fundamental point that the changes in the Mass did more harm than good. What I'm trying to get across to you and others who didn't experience the times before the changes is that the Novus Ordu alone didn't cause today's mess. In some ways many of the the changes were a symptom of the apostasy which had already taken root both in the Church and in wider society. Could some changes have improved the Mass without turning it into a means for what charity obliges me to call "creative" priests and laity to demonstrate their "personal relationship" with Jesus and "fellowship" with their neighbour? I would say yes, but I don't really know for sure. All I know is that we got as many graces from the Mass pre-Vatican 11 when we didn't have any active role other than our presence as we do now when the obsession with "inclusiveness" and "participation" has resulted in Mass being more like a stage play with a part for everyone in the audience. I also know from experience that Masses celebrated in the Ordinary Form can be every bit as reverent as those celebrated in the Extraordinary Form. A lack of respect in society generally was bound to be reflected in people's behaviour at Mass. As to the dreaded "sign of peace", it actually dates back to the earliest times - at least the 4th century: https://aleteia.org/2017/08/17/the-sign-of-peace-the-ancient-roots-of-the-greeting-we-make-at-mass/
Thanks, Dolours for your kindness. May I also ask for your feelings about the particles of the Eucharist dropping everywhere in the NO mass? This is something that bothers me greatly. +
I don't doubt that there were changes for the worse in the wider society in that era already. But, if the Catholic Church had not changed the mass, had not sent out the message that it no longer believes that 'outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation', had not appeared to want to be in step with society, would the Catholic Church and faith have received such a blow as it did? Would there really have been that great exodus from the Catholic Church, leaving empty pews and a drastic drop in vocations? Would Catholics have had the impression (as they did) that it is okay to be one with the world and adopt all its secular beliefs including contraception, abortion, indecent dressing etc? Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi. I believe this to be true. Imho it explains why the NO mass was the main trigger for the falling away from the faith. +
I know it. I pray one day to be living somewhere else where the holiness of the church is so inviting that it will draw everyone to it.
I'm not convinced that particles of the Eucharist are dropping everywhere in the NO Mass. And isn't Jesus only present if the host (or particle) has the appearance of bread? Wouldn't the particles you refer to be so minute as to no longer have the appearance of bread? There is an ancient document about Holy Communion from which it can be understood that Communion in the hand was practised in the early Church. Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi didn't save us from the Vatican 11 Modernists. Everyone at the Council had been raised with the old Mass. The apostasy was already embedded in the Catholic intelligentsia. The hierarchy's failure to protect the sheep from those wolves caused far more damage than changes in the Mass. They let the wolves educate future leaders inside the Church and in Catholic communities. Laws are ineffective unless they are observed, policed and enforced.
WbtW, come to Texas! My Latin Mass parish has 1600 people attending five Masses every Sunday in our tiny church that holds maybe 300 at a time! We’re building a new, much larger church and we can’t wait to have more room. We have four priests in residence full time. Come on down... you’d love it!
I think it all boils down to the reverence of the priest and the individuals in the pews. All the abuses which crept into the Novus Ordu deflect from other changes which I think were unnecessary and possibly did more harm than good. Mario started a thread about the baptism of his grandson (lovely photo and the sweetest baby). The baby was baptised according to the old rite. What a pity all babies don't have that advantage. Another change I don't like is the way Adorations are confined to side chapels or small rooms rather than the Blessed Sacrament being on the main altar in the church. As often as not, it's a layperson who places the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance for Adoration, and returns it to the tabernacle afterwwards. Forty hours Adoration almost never happens. Very few parishes have Benediction now. I wouldn't be at all surprised if many priests didn't know how to do Benediction properly. It's sad. We'll just have to pray more for our priests and bishops.
SG you speak so eloquently and so truly. The TLM is "the most beautiful thing this side of heaven" as some early 20th century writer said whose name eludes me. Until we return to it nothing else will go right. I agree. The NO said carefully is valid but the Graces are not the same. When I was younger I made a concerted effort every Sunday to travel 140 miles around trip to attend. It truly was heaven. But now I must attend the NO locally. Fortunately we have priests who are extremely reverent and that helps immensely. I agree about the hymns too. And the handshake. Big cringe. Years ago when I taught catechism I emphasized the Holy sacrifice although the push then was "the meal". Now at the NO I try to focus on Our Lord and His Sacrifice and be as attentive and reverent as I can. It's been a long hard slog. And sadly it is far from over. (To put salt in the wound there is a full traditional Latin Mass 6 miles from My home for sedevacantists. Our bishop has declared it a mortal sin to attend. I must be obedient so I dont go. Satan is very subtle in these things) All i can do is offer it up.
