Keep praying Byron. I think that all of us have a list of worries about what we see occurring in the world now.
Yes, we do need to introduce people to the Warning, ASAP. And remember regarding the Warning, Jacinta said: August, 1979 Q. Do you recall anything about a great tribulation, communism...? A. Yes, it was an invasion, well, something that was a great evil in which communism played a great part, but I no longer remember which countries or what region was stricken. The Blessed Virgin insisted in telling us to pray (that it be averted). These difficult events will take place before the Warning because the Warning itself will take place when the situation will be at its worst. April 16, 1983 Q. In the 1979 interview (above), you said in describing the communist tribulation that "it was like an invasion. " Did you see scenes of this invasion? A. Sometimes I confuse an invasion with a persecution. Q. You have also said that when things were at their very worst then the Warning will happen. How do you know this? Did the Virgin tell you or did you see it in a vision? A. The Virgin said that the Warning would come when conditions were at their worst. It wouldn't be just the persecution either because many people will no longer be practising their religion. And here is what Conchita said about the Miracle: Q.What exactly is going to happen on that day? A. I am not permitted to say exactly what is going to happen. What I can reveal is that the Virgin said that everyone who would be there (in Garabandal) on that day would see it. The sick who are there will be cured no matter what their disease or religion. However, they have to be there. Q.On the day of the Miracle, did you say that those present would be converted? A. The Virgin said that everyone present would believe. They would see that this was coming directly from God. All sinners present would be converted. She also said that you would be able to take pictures and televise it. Also, from that moment on, there would be a permanent sign at the Pines that everyone would be able to see and touch but not feel. I can't explain it. Q. On the day of the Miracle there will be an extraordinary sign not made by human hands? A.Yes. And this sign will remain until the end of time. So, the order of events according to Jacinta and Conchita are as follows: Great Tribulation/Communism/Persecution of the Faithful --> The Warning --> The Miracle --> The Chastisement for the wicked OR the Reward for the Faithful The Great Tribulation is universally-recognized as the 3.5 year period of the Antichrist. It is the time when things will be "at their worst" for the faithful remnant (aka "the Church). It will be bad because of "persecution" by people who are "communists" of some sort (wokism is cultural communism). Then the Warning will happen. Then the Miracle. Sometime after the Warning will be the Period of Peace, the Reign of the Immaculate Heart, although Our Lady did not use those phrases at Garabandal (that I know of). One should be able to see that the true supernatural Period of Peace cannot come before the Great Tribulation/Antichrist period. The false period of man-made "peace and security" will happen during the period of the Great Tribulation and before the Warning. Only AFTER the Warning (and possibly also the Miracle) will the authentic supernatural Period of Peace happen.
And remember the three things that must happen BEFORE the Warning: 1. There will be a bad "Synod." (Synod on Synodality) 2. The Pope will go to Moscow. (to negotiate a peace deal) 3. When the Pope returns from Moscow, hostilities and communism will break out all over Europe. (Persecution of the faithful remnant by the Antichrist/Antipope) Here's what Mari-Loli said: October 19, 1982 Q. Do you remember what the Blessed Mother said about the communist tribulation that is to precede the Warning? A. It would look like the communists would have taken over the whole world and it would be very hard to practice the religion, for priests to say Mass or for people to open the doors of the churches. Q. Is that what you meant when you said that it would seem as though the Church had disappeared? A. Yes. Q. It would be because of the persecution and not because the people would stop practicing their religion? A. Yes, but I guess a lot of people will stop. Whoever practices it will have to go into hiding. See how she describes "communism": 1. "...it will be very hard to practice the religion" 2. "for the priests to say Mass" 3. "and for people to open the doors of churches." 4. "whoever practices [the religion] will have to go into hiding." Note, she does not say we will all be put into concentration camps, have our money taken away, have to hunt and fish for food, lose our jobs. None of those things will happen during the "persecution" of the Antichrist. That stuff may very well happen during the Final Chastisement/Wrath period that take place AFTER the Warning/Miracle. But those who are truly part of the faithful remnant (small group) will not experience the Wrath/Final Chastisement. Instead, during the Pre-Warning period of the Great Tribulation, authentic Catholics will locked out of Churches and will have to say the authentic Mass in other locations. Priests will not be allowed by their bishops to say the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the Mass of the Ages. This stuff is beginning to happen now and will become more prevalent in the next few years as the Synod on Synodality gets going and the TLM is outlawed. Again, here is the sequence of events: Great Tribulation/Antichrist --> Warning --> Miracle --> Wrath for unrepentant wicked OR Reward for the Faithful
Hi Carol55. The period of the Antichrist is 42 months, according to Apocalypse 13: 1 And I saw a beast coming up out the sea, having seven heads and ten horns: and upon his horns, ten diadems: and upon his heads, names of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like to a leopard: and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his own strength and great power. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were slain to death: and his death's wound was healed. And all the earth was in admiration after the beast. 4 And they adored the dragon which gave power to the beast. And they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? And who shall be able to fight with him? 5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do, two and forty months. 6 And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven.7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb which was slain from the beginning of the world. This one with "a mouth speaking great things" is the "Little Horn" of Daniel 7: 19 After this I would diligently learn concerning the fourth beast, which was very different from all, and exceeding terrible: his teeth and claws were of iron: he devoured and broke in pieces, and the rest he stamped upon with his feet: 20 And concerning the ten horns that he had on his head: and concerning the other that came up, before which three horns fell: and of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth speaking great things, and was greater than the rest. 21 I beheld, and lo, that horn made war against the saints, and prevailed over them, 22 Till the ancient of days came and gave judgment to the saints of the most High, and the time came, and the saints obtained the kingdom. This is the same person, the Antichrist, according to the Church Fathers. Also, the same as the person called "the Man of Sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2.
Trip me up, lol. I missed this post of yours until now PNF. I’ll provide the link to where this was discussed on MOG in the past when I have time to find it and I’ll further explain what I meant in relation to Frances Hogan’s video later also.
Yes, PNF I am aware of all of that but where is it stated that 3.5 years of the AC is specifically the great tribulation? The great tribulation is discussed in scripture but not as you have stated that I am aware of. edited to add: I think that this is the scripture that represents the time before the Warning and this is universally accepted but there is no mention of the 3.5 years of the AC. 21] For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. [22] And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened. [23] Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. [24] For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
Here is a summary of the coincidence of the "great tribulation" and the period of "the antichrist" from a Catholic diocesan website in Georgia: https://www.stcatherinercc.org/single-post/2018/09/11/Do-Catholics-Believe-in-the-Great-Tribulation Yes, you have the correct quote. It is from Matthew 24. I will quote with more context: 15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand. 16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains: 17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat. 19 And woe to them that are with child and that give suck in those days. 20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter or on the sabbath. 21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. 22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo here is Christ, or there: do not believe him. 24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. 25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand. 26 If therefore they shall say to you, Behold he is in the desert: go ye not out. Behold he is in the closets: believe it not. 27 For as lightning cometh out of the east and appeareth even into the west: so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together. 29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved. 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. And then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty. 31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them. So we can see that Jesus references the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel. Then he says that is a definitive sign of the "great tribulation," a period not like any other "from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be." This "great tribulation" will be when times are "at their worst" for the faithful people of God. Then Jesus talks about the "deception" of the "the false prophets," that happen during this period. The same "religious deception" is discussed in CCC 675 when talking about the "Antichrist." Then Jesus mentions the lightening-fast coming (like a thief in the night) COMING of the Son of Man. And then describes that event in more detail. He describes a "sign of the Son of Man in heaven," which is a Miracle, probably "The Miracle" of Garabandal. Recapitulating he says, the "tribes of the earth" will mourn (because of the Warning). And they shall see "the Son of Man coming in the clouds." Warning first, then the Miracle. Then Jesus will gather "his elect from the four winds."
This still does not prove your point, sorry PNF. That link that you provided is doing the same thing that you have done which is connecting dots that aren’t quite there. The scripture that I provided which you have also included, Matthew 24, clearly speaks in general terms of false prophets and antichrists, not what you have suggested.
the didache-catechism of the primitive Church whose origins date back to the first century briefly mentions the coming of a false Christ at the end of time who will persecute Christians I believe that this is the antichrist and the antipope fits in the false prophet or simply in the figure of a new judas in the Church: CHAPTER 16 16:1 Watch concerning your life; let not your lamps be quenched or your loins be loosed, but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour at which our Lord cometh. 16:2 But be ye gathered together frequently, seeking what is suitable for your souls; for the whole time of your faith shall profit you not, unless ye be found perfect in the last time. 16:3 For in the last days false prophets and seducers shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; 16:4 and because iniquity aboundeth they shall hate each other, and persecute each other, and deliver each other up; and then shall the Deceiver of the world appear as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands; and he shall do unlawful things, such as have never happened since the beginning of the world. 16:5 Then shall the creation of man come to the fiery trial of proof, and many shall be offended and shall perish; but they who remain in their faith shall be saved by the rock of offence itself. 16:6 And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first the sign of the appearance in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead 16:7 -- not of all, but as it has been said, The Lord shall come and all his saints with him; 16:8 then shall the world behold the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven. https://pages.uoregon.edu/sshoemak/321/texts/didache.html
Hi Carol55. Let me try help you connect those dots. And let's start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church: The Church's ultimate trial 675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.573 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth574 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. the supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.575 676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement. the Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,576 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.577 677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.578 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.579 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.580 573 Cf. Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12. 574 Cf. Lk 21:12; Jn 15:19-20. 575 Cf. 2 Th 2:4-12; I Th 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; I Jn 2:1 8, 22. 576 Cf. DS 3839. 577 Pius XI, Divini Redemptoris, condemning the "false mysticism" of this "counterfeit of the redemption of the lowly"; cf. GS 20-21. 578 Cf. Rev 19:1-9. 579 Cf Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4. 580 Cf. Rev 20:12 2 Pt 3:12-13. Now, you will notice that I bolded the phrases with the word "final" in them. They are the "final trial," the "final Passover," and the "final unleashing of evil." Same set of events described with slightly different words. All of this under the heading "The Church's Ultimate Trial." In fact, at the end of the first sentence of section 675, we see footnote 573. Footnote 573 references Matthew 24:12. So we know that this period of the "final trial," according to the CCC includes the period from Matthew 24:12 and goes forward from there for 3.5 years. Let's see what how the events are described in the CCC with the words from Matthew 24 in []. We have: 1. a "persecution" ["the charity of many will grow cold"] 2. the "mystery of iniquity" will be unveiled ["iniquity hath abounded"] 3. a "religious deception" ["to deceive (if possible) even the elect"] 4. an "apostasy from the truth" ["the abomination of desolation"] 5. the "Antichrist" ["there shall arise false Christs and false prophets"] 6. the Church "will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection" ["Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together."] 7. the Bride will "come down from heaven." ["he shall send his angels with a trumpet"] Now, lets look at that key phrase from Matthew 24 that defines the "great tribulation" as follows: 21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. So CCC 675-677 describes the "final trial," the "final unleashing of evil" by the Antichrist. This is the same period described by Jesus when he said that the period he was describing will be the worst that has ever been or ever shall be. The CCC is not talking about a different time period than Matthew 24. We know this because even the CCC actually references Matthew 24:12 in a footnote in the first sentence of the relevant section of the Catechism. Does this connect the dots for you?
“And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be moved.” This may be the 3 Days of Darkness, which comes after the Warning and Miracle.
No, it actually it does not and I am familiar with all of this already. I have a question for you though PNF, where do you see the period of peace that Our Lady of Fatima promised fitting in with your connected dots? You may want to reread CCC 676 before you answer this question.
I am surprised by this Byron most people who believe in the Warning believe that the darkening of the sun and the moon etc and the sign of the Son of man represents the Warning. And they believe that the stars falling from heaven represents the fallen clergymen. I am not saying that I know these things are absolutely correct but I am repeating what I have read.
Several Church biblical scholars have said the stars falling are clergymen. Bishops actually. And that wormwood poisoning the water is a Judas priest who poisons truth and right doctrine. Fr. Lapide has said this. (From sensus fidellium)Edited to add: Fr Wolfe FSSP in his series on Our Lady of Revelation quotes Fr Cornelius Lapide--Fr Lapide is considered the best of the best.
Thank you Ann, your memory is impeccable. I recommended to PNF that he research what SF has said about the end times but to no avail, I suppose.
Rather than me clogging up this thread with Saint Hildegard’s prophecies which have already been posted on the forum, I’m providing a link to where they were previously discussed. https://motheofgod.com/threads/st-hildegards-prophecies-discussion-thread.10984/page-2 What I was saying about Frances Hogan’s analysis is that taking what St. Hildegard has stated about many Jews coming into the Church ( the fullness of the Jews and the Gentiles?) before the time of the final Antichrist, Frances’ statement about where the AC will be seated appears to make a lot sense. Although, we are not there yet as you will understand better after reading Saint Hildegard’s prophecies.
Agree, Carol, I have read the same about the clergy. This could very well be about the Warning. Notice it mentions the tribulation happens before the powers of heaven move. It will get worse before the Warning. What does worse mean and why such tribulation? Are we not living in a Great Apostasy today for heavens powers to move? Or is this Warning just a passing act of no real importance? I would think if heavens powers move this would be just as significant as the time of Noah. A merciful call from heaven to change. But will we change? Will many keep ignoring the Biblical signs leading up to the Warning, as well as, after the Warning? That’s what I fear the most. And if people after the Warning do not go back to God, then I do believe the chastisement of the 3 days of Darkness will come. And it will come soon after the Warning.
Interesting discussion as always aon MOG. I have always felt the prophesy just like scripture can have double/triple meanings. For example, stars falling, wormwood, etc in the bible can mean actual stars falling and real poisonings of the waters as well as point to fallen clergy. Both can be happening. Timelines are impossible to predict and connect the dots. Even the warning could not be a true thing though I personally believe it is because many church approved mystics have pointed to it and what St. Faustina saw, sounds like the warning to me. For me, trying to figure out timeline is fun but should not bring division among fellow members of the faith or even personal discomfort. When those things occur, one should walk away from discussion. Charity always my friends! The end times and the apocalypse is taken so literal by our protestant brothers and sisters and none of that literal stuff may actually occur and more symbolic stuff could occur. For example: Protestants believe an actual third temple would have to be built before the events of Revelation can occur. I personally believe there is no way a literal third temple will ever be built in Jerusalem. Talk about a holy war that would occur at such an event. The Saudis, Syrians, Iranians, etc would bomb Jerusalem to the stone ages if the temple mount was ever taken down for a Jewish temple. This is my own personal view. Obviously all things are possible with God though.
