Here is a very interesting homily: http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20130519-On-The-Errors-of-Pentacostalism.html What do you think? Ave Maria!
I think this is right on. Raymond de Souza, world renown in apologetics & evangelization, is here with me today and he is in agreement with the confusion of charasmatic renewal as well. Most, not all, charismatics are not grounded in doctrine and feel they do not need sacraments and the Church in their charism.
I really enjoyed and learned alot from Mark Mallett's six part series on the Charismatic Renewal. http://www.markmallett.com/blog/category/daily-journal/?s=charismatic&submit=Search
I wish the priest didn't sound so 'sarcastic' in his Homily. That bugs me. I have met more people that have the ability to have 'instant Jesus' and 'instant Mary' at their fingertips. It disturbs my soul very much! I think its a power trip.
From the Vatican II document, Lumen Gentium (Chapter 1, Section 4) (12) The Spirit dwells in the Church and in the hearts of the faithful, as in a temple.(13) In them He prays on their behalf and bears witness to the fact that they are adopted sons.(14) The Church, which the Spirit guides in way of all truth(15) and which He unified in communion and in works of ministry, He both equips and directs with hierarchical and charismatic gifts and adorns with His fruits. From the Vatican II document, Lumen Gentium (Chapter 2, Section 12) It is not only through the sacraments and the ministries of the Church that the Holy Spirit sanctifies and leads the people of God and enriches it with virtues, but, "allotting his gifts to everyone according as He wills,(114) He distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank. By these gifts He makes them fit and ready to undertake the various tasks and offices which contribute toward the renewal and building up of the Church, according to the words of the Apostle: "The manifestation of the Spirit is given to everyone for profit".(115) These charisms, whether they be the more outstanding or the more simple and widely diffused, are to be received with thanksgiving and consolation for they are perfectly suited to and useful for the needs of the Church. Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use; but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.(116) A few comments, since I perceive the well-intentioned and good Father, in response to real, potential dangers, has elected to throw the baby out with the bath water! First, the Charismatic Renewal does not ultimately come from Protestant Pentecostalism. It comes from the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church as evidenced by the above Council Fathers' openness to such manifestation. In addition, the first century Church saw the outward sign of the Holy Spirit has a part of normal Catholicism: Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" Now, I would agree that the Council Fathers were just as aware of the dangers attending the use of these gifts, but they also instruct us not to extinguish the Spirit. My wonderful wife, Geralyn, and I, were actively involved in the Charismatic Renewal from 1977 until 1990. When the Movement in our area went into a sort of desert experience in the mid-1980s, a number of Catholics left for Pentecostal Churches because they mistakenly saw the diminishing manifestation of the gifts as a sign of God's displeasure. As the good padre warned in his homily, these individuals were seeking consolations in place of the Giver of consolations! Even so, four great graces of God were bestowed upon me through the Charismatic Renewal: 1) the realization and manifestation of God's personal love for me 2) an insatiable hunger for the Scriptures 3) my healing from destructive tailspins 4) my initial consecration to Mother Mary In conclusion, I will never regret my involvement, nor suppress the gifts the Lord graciously bestowed. Neither will I question the judgment of the Council Fathers! Father was very wise to highlight the dangers inherent in using charismatic gifts, but he was equally dangerous in espousing their derailment! Safe in the joy of the Holy Spirit!
This kind of prayer has not been my calling, so I have a hard time relating to it. I felt called to silence and the Carmel way of prayer, and so became a Third Order. I have a cousin who is very into this, and although she loves God, and will be in loud praise all night, she still chooses mortal sin alot by letting men move in with her and then "falling" into sin. (She is validly married in the Church, but divorced) She always has justification for this by some obscure bible passage, and then claims there are 7 true churches, and that she can go to any one of those. I also met some other Catholics that were into this, and they too were living in horrible sin together, and then justifying it by saying that God told them to do this. So anyway, I guess I have not seen much fruit of it, and perhaps that has made me shy away from it. All I see is loud, emotional excitement from the sources I know, and it frankly makes me uncomfortable.
Terry, Thank you for your balanced defense of the charismatic movement. I have just completed a Seminar on the Holy Spirit for the 3rd time and it never fails to bring renewal and a fervency to my spiritual life. There are pitfalls in everything because satan never stops working but dont judge this by the lives of those who arent living by the 10 commandments. This movement has been a great plus to the lives of many catholics, me included. Mary
I was going to listen to the audio tape, but I didn't have time, so I can not speak to the posted link, but I have witnessed people who have rested in the spirit and they have profound peaceful experiences. Others like my dad had a healing of persistent back pain after being prayed over. I think for myself, I have 'the gift of tears' and I am still trying to understand what this means for me. The sister that is close to the visionaries of Medjugorje was healed of despair by the Holy Spirit after people in a prayer group prayed over her in the 1970's. She writes about her dramatic healing in the book The Hidden Child of Medjugorje, which I recommend. Satan will ape anything that God is doing, so discernment is essential. Trying to produce charisms on demand isn't recommended (like Benny Hinn) but when the Sprit moves, it is so powerful and just a sneak peak of Heaven. I think prophecy and words of knowledge are also gifts of the Holy Spirit and so that too is why we need to fast and pray to discern our way through what is presented to us.
Yes I do think it is probably a great way to evangelize and I have thought about attending a prayer group my parish has, except as I said I don't know anyone personally who is living the commandments in any of these groups. It just goes to show how peoples lives in themselves can affect the faith of others, and how we must not cause any scandal no matter what our calling is. I'm not saying there are not holy devout people praying in this way, I just have never come across any in my sphere...
Carmel333, I am in a prayer group, a marian prayer group. It is attended by people of different views. The important thing is that all the people who seek a prayer group are seeking God. I have found myself in disagreement with people on the gay agenda, humane vitae, the authority of the pope, women priests in fact the whole 9 yards. I always try to present the teaching of the church in a reasonable and considered way and after about 4 years of this I now notice that these issues are put to one side and I think the church's teaching is starting to be understood. I did consider leaving at one point but I was coaxed back and now we seem to be all of one mind. We are growing together. Everybody is a different stage and its important to engage with everybody who is seeking. That Parish prayer group may be really in need of your witness and yes it is a great way to evangelize. I am so glad I joined this prayer group. God is always working even when we cant see it. Mary
I do better with my secular friends who are in sin. I'm not very patient with Catholics and Christians who don't want to obey the commandments. They only seem to believe what they want to believe, and I cannot stand arguing about stuff like that. Alot of my secular friends that are away from the Church or Christ, seem to love Him and feel that they cannot for whatever reason give up their sinful life yet, so they stay away. My Catholic and Christian friends that flaunt their mortal sin and attend Mass have no interest in the truth it seems. They want God and they want their sin too. I've tried (I have several cousins and relatives in this state, like open adultry, helping their daughters get abortions, fighting for gay marraige etc..) but I cannot feel sympathy or seem to understand them, so I pray for them instead. It's hard enough for me to stay pure in this world, I don't need them insisting it's ok for me to commit sin, that God still loves me. You may have a wonderful personality and be able to deal with that stuff, and I'm sure God uses you and blesses you. I know myself, and do not have the patience, so unless the Lord throws them in my face, I try to stay clear.
Pope Francis is of course himself a charismatic and the region he comes from is itself heavily influenced by the Movement. http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries..../04-2013/pope-francis-a-charismatic-catholic/ http://maryvictrix.com/2013/05/10/pope-francis-the-charismatic/
http://ingodscompany2.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/rome-april-30-2013-zenit.html Pope Francis to Catholic Charismatic Renewal: Tell Them I Love Them Very Much Rome, April 30, 2013 (Zenit.org) Rocio Lancho Garcia | On Saturday, Archbishop Rino Fisichella, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization, celebrated the Eucharist that ended the second day of the Rimini Fair of the 36th National Assembly of Catholic Charismatic Renewal. After the sign of the cross, Archbishop Fisichella gave an unexpected message, which was received with joy by the 15,000 present: an affectionate greeting from Pope Francis. . “Before beginning this celebration, I bring you a greeting. Before I left this morning, I was with Pope Francis, and I told him: “Holy Father, I have to leave soon. I’m going to Rimini where there are thousands upon thousands of faithful of the Charismatic Renewal: men, women and young people.” With a great smile, the Pope said: “Tell them that I love them very much!” Upon leaving the Holy Father, Archbishop Fisichella recounted, the Holy Father added: “Look, tell them that I love them very much because I was responsible for Charismatic Renewal in Argentina, and that’s why I love them very much.” . During the homily, Archbishop Fisichella addressed the faithful with affectionate words, thanking them for the great work of the New Evangelization “which you have been carrying out for some time” but which now, “with the National Plan for the New Evangelization which has been given to you, calls for the commitment of all of you and which, from this moment, becomes the compass with which to work and act in the heart of the Church.” In a brief and very concrete homily, the president of the Pontifical Council for the New Evangelization spoke primarily of the endeavor of the New Evangelization and of Jesus as the Teacher, who accompanies us and does not abandon us in a world in which often the Christian must go against the current. He continued adding that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, the “revelation” that indicates the path that God has designed for us. “Thomas’ question is ours: Lord, you are the way, but how can we know it?” he asked. “The secret of our existence, the full realization of happiness, lies in the degree that we know God’s plan for us and that we put it into practice. However, what the heart understands does not always finds its full and concrete realization.” . This “realization” can only come about in Christ, who never leaves us alone, he added. “The journey enables us to know who we are, where we are going, and point out the end. The New Evangelization calls us to make our own the certainty of faith, to found our life on Jesus.” Therefore, our witness cannot lack the proclamation of hope, of the resurrection which opposes the tendency to the culture of death, in which the lack of God robs us of prospects and orientation to the future. “We must become pilgrims: He, Jesus, is the end. And in this end we must find ourselves.” Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook
Carmel333 The people in my prayer group are all living good lives but are influenced by secular thinking. Its hard to escape from it but as a group by discussing the issues it has helped clarify the church teaching. No! I don't have a great personality but the Holy Spirit helps me.
Carmel333, I would just say that your cousin may not be experiencing a transformational outpouring of the Holy Spirit because an authentic outpouring would be so astounding to her way of life, she would not chose sin over living chastely. Yet, if there is ever a healing service in your diocese, check it out and see what you think. The gifts of the Spirit are there and we are able to ask for them in faith. When I was still in school there was virtually no one that was interested in this, so I attended the Mass and healing service alone and it was powerful. I admire your staunch defense of the faith in your posts, you are a powerful witness to the faith.
I always considered St Teresa of Avila and her nuns dancing at Carmel as charismatic, mirroring as it does the scriptural episode where King David, overtaken by the Holy Spirit danced in front of the Ark of the Covenant. 2 Samuel 6 12 Now King David was told, “The Lord has blessed the household of Obed-Edom and everything he has, because of the ark of God.” So David went to bring up the ark of God from the house of Obed-Edom to the City of David with rejoicing. 13 When those who were carrying the ark of the Lord had taken six steps, he sacrificed a bull and a fattened calf. 14 Wearing a linen ephod, David was dancing before the Lord with all his might, 15 while he and all Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of trumpets.
