Hope, I love this prayer, especially the line asking for the gift of the fear of the Lord: ...and the Spirit of Fear that I may be filled with a loving reverence towards God and may dread in any way to displease Him. Mark me, dear Lord, with the sign of Your true disciples and animate me in all things with Your Spirit. Amen. It is interesting that as much as I treasure intimacy with God, I still stand in awe of God's holiness. I can't readily explain it, but I don't perceive a conflict in love vs. fear and trembling. Maybe Padraig or someone else could shed some light on this contrast? 1Tim 6: 14 I charge you to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; 15 and this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
I always believed that the gift of fear of the Lord was to love Him so much that you would fear in any way to displease Him, much as you would hate to hurt and displease someone, a family member whom you loved for instance. The question's probably very complicated, but I'm very simple and like things simplified. That question might be a whole thread of it's own!
Concerning the, 'Fear of God' that Terry mentions, there is a lot in this that appears contradictory. For instance on the one hand we are told, 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. Whilst apparently paradoxically we are also told: Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. But how can two seemingly opposed statements concur? I think perhaps a lot of this has to do with the Incarnation of the Christ and Marian Devotion. I am not sure if this holds true with most families but in ours, with ten children we had a kind of 'Good' guy , 'Bad guy' thing going with my father and my mother. For instance if we did something wrong the worse thing my mother could do was to threaten to tell my dad when he came home from work. As well as this when we needed anything it was to mother we went, she was a soft touch and never said, 'No' (looking back on things now down the years I suppose this system was not altogether fair to my dad but that's the way things were) I think to me this was really the perfect model of Marian Devotion. Not that my father loved us any less, but my mother served as a kind of warm bridge to him, one that brought him closer to him. And was this relationship with my father born of fear? Well I suppose it was a kind of respectful, we gotta watch ourselves with this guy , ho doesn't stand nonsense kind of thing. In a similiar way Jesus is a bridge to heaven .He is the safe road we walk across to the father. I think in this we see that the family is so very,very much Trinitarian in form with Jesus acting as elder brother into the Heart of the Trinity to the Feet of the Father. With the Holy Spirit acting as the feminine and also Mary as the Spouse of the Spirit . To give two illustrations. I have only ever had direct mystical experience of God the Father. Once in the City of Jerusalem and once on the island of Cyprus. Both of them came straight out of nowhere like a train and both of them hit me very, very heavily. (This is not an ecstasy or rapture but rather a direct experience of the Glory of God the Father.} The Jews call this experience , ' The Shekinah', of the , 'Glory of God', or 'Perousia' , 'Divine Presence' in the New Testament. ''Shekinah is derived from the Hebrew verb שכן. In Biblical Hebrew that Semitic root means literally to settle, inhabit, or dwell, and is used frequently in the Hebrew Bible. In Mishnaic Hebrew the noun is often used to refer to birds' nesting and nests. ("Every bird nests [shekinot] with its kind, and man with its like, Talmud Baba Kammah 92b.) and can also mean "neighbor" ("If a neighbor and a scholar, the scholar is preferred" Talmud Ketubot 85b). The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable. Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".[1]'' I can only say it called me at once when it came to fall flat on my face and kinda keep my mouth shut. What was it like? Well it was kind of like the heavens opened and a flaming chariot came down as though all around were fire and light. You at once wished that God would depart from me for I am a sinful man. It is kind of like the flaming bush that Moses saw and you also see some descriptions in events surrounding the prophets. Also, perhaps the Descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. But different , for Pentecost by all accounts seems kinder, the visitation of the Spirit. This was the Glory of the Father which is a different kettle of Fish entirely. Would it be right to speak of fear. Yes I think it would , because He is just so totally holy and other. God is so different so tremendous that yes we do need bridges to approach. He is if you like just too much . Isaiah 66:1 This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? I am sorry as an Irishman I am rarely speechless , but this leaves me speechless. Yes there is fear, of course there is fear, for He is God and He is holy. .... and what are we?
So true, Hope! I believe it is a significant shift in our spiritual life when out of love we would fear in any way to displease Him, rather than simply striving to avoid sin out of fear of punishment. Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
Padraig, You have stirred up a memory that took place at a Charismatic Conference in the LeMoyne College Athletic Center in 1988. A Eucharistic procession had begun and as our Lord in the Monstrance entered the auditorium, the shekinah fell. Now there were over a thousand Catholics assembled, but where I stood there was room to prostrate myself which I immediately did. There was no sense of conformity with the crowd; rather, it seemed as if the Holy Presence of God almost pushed me down on my face. It was an experience of awe and reverence that was unforgettably tangible. I didn't look around to observe what others were doing and remained in the prostrate position until the shekinah departed, about five minutes as I recall. Though the entrance of Our Eucharistic Lord precipitated the experience, I must say that the shekinah did not appear to emanate from the Monstrance, but rather, fall from above! It was awesome to the nth degree! Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on us!
Wow! You know you are the first person I know that told me of experiencing such a thing. I suspect it is very,very rare. I suspect that such a thing must have occurred at the start of Charismatic Renewal at Notre Dame College, the night the students had a vigil calling down the Holy Spirit. It reminds me that in heaven there are different levels and I can see why. Because if we get to close we might get , 'toasted' so to speak. But also in Scripture we read of angels, ascending and descending. John 1:51 He then added, "Very truly I tell you, you will see 'heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on' the Son of Man." So I sometimes think of us all in heaven kind of going up to take and a peek and then coming down for a breather. Too much of that glory would be a little too hot for comfort. You will also note that on the Ark of the Covenant they placed angels. These are the Cherumbim, the cherubim being the chair of God ,so to speak. The place were God sits. I can see where we would a mediator or kind of sunglasses to God, the chief of course being Jesus (though that of course being only a fraction of His role as High Priest) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, I admit my own prayer is to be in , 'Mary's House' in heaven. A place of the moon, rather than the sun. A gentler light. But we have lost this reverential awe of course in our generation , turning God into a kind of soft pink Burl Ives kind of figure.
True, but as you and Padraig have said, He is AWSOME! In a small way I have experienced His Awesome presence and it is a jaw dropping and dropping to the floor experience. I cannot call it fear but just experiencing His awsomeness and realising that you are really nothing in His presence, that God is truly all. And we have lost that sense of awe, of the true majesty of God.
Hope...I have experienced this presence in an even much smaller way than you I am sure, let alone what Mario and Padraig have experienced. But even this very very small way that I have experienced it is so INTOXICATING. I want so much more and get sooooo frustrated at my limitations and sinfulness that keep me from experiencing more. I constantly beg God for the grace to go deeper and experience more but then inevitably close the doors and windows that allow that grace to enter due to sin. Uggg...the spiritual battle is so exhausting.
I'm sure what you experienced Jimmy was something very special, but God gives His graces to whom He pleases and when He pleases. If He gave them only to nonsinners then none of us would ever receive any graces, because we are all sinners and have wasted grace. The only important thing is to admit we're wrong, beg forgiveness from God, who is so merciful and loves us with such a precious love and so wants to forgive us and hopefully with a firm amendment we can change. Just have to keep getting back up after we fall. And sometimes the road is dark and we have to go along without any of the consolations on pure faith and trust. This is a test, this is not your life. If this were your life, God would have told you where to go and what to do. But, He's given us a manuel to study, sent His only Beloved Son to show us the way and be with us till the end of time and to top it all off our Lord has given us His own beloved Mother to help us and lead us to Him through her pure Immaculate Heart. What a good and merciful God we have!
Come, O Divine Spirit, fill my heart with Thy heavenly fruits, Thy charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, faith, mildness, and temperance, that I may never weary in the service of God, but by continued faithful submission to Thy inspiration may merit to be united eternally with Thee in the love of the Father and the Son. Amen. Amen!
I think what you both wrote about fearing to displease God is just so insightful. It is a bit like God being a great light and in hitting us He casts a large shadow when He reveals to us our sin. So it is this light of Holiness which shows up as shadow our sinfulness that causes us to tremble with fearful awe. For nothing that is not altogether holy can stand in the presence of God. A kind of scarey thing in this regard happened to me many years ago. I was talking to a priest on how the more we pray the more convicted we are of sin. So after a year we may say, 'I am a sinner' Then a few years later we say, 'I am sinner' Then a few years after this we say. 'I am a sinner' But as I was talking to this priest I was using the plural and saying, 'We sinners'. But the priest cut me of and said , 'Don't say,'We', say,' I,' when you are talking about sinners!' Well I burst out laughing because I thought he was joking. For after al as St Paul said, Romans 3:23 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, .and as St John says even more forcefully, 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But as I looked at this priest my laughter quickly died for I could see that not only was he serious but was very angry. He wanted in no way or any circumStances to be equated with me in any way. He knew a little of my life in prison and considered me a SINNER. Whereas he considered himself to be a sinner. Now it was so interesting for me. For I should explain that in looking at souls, particularly over a period I can kind of 'see' them and this priest I knew was a very holy man. He had been in a state of contemplative prayer for many years. But I had been aware for some years of a great blockage in his spiritual life which was stopping the flow of grace. {I should explain this 'seeing'. Prayer not only effects our souls it actually effects our bodies. This guy, how shall i put it? he flowed. It is like a kind of music. Bad people on the other hand it is like music that is out of tome or tune, drunken, discordant. But this particular priest it is like a beautiful musical orchestral score which stopped abruptly. He had frozen in place for many years. The work of the Spirit was stymied. Another way of looking at this is that we all have 'auras' kind of like saints halos. Now consider us all to be like little birds who fly about towards God. But we tire and rest on branches for a time. Now what are the branches that we rest on ?Why the branches of our own righteousness of course. We say to God, 'That's it I've had it this far and no further, I've done enough' Then the Wind of the Holy Spirit comes along blows the branches , giving them a good shaking, forcing us to move our little asses of the self righteousness on which we have been sitting.....and how does He achieve this? By convicting us of sin of course. This is why as Jesus taught the bad guys , the great sinners are filling up heaven, they have no branches of self justification on which to perch and so must keep flying and flying right on into the very heart of God's love, all the way to the golden gates of heaven. The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force. Matthew 11.12.
