I am not knocking Vatican II, but we haven't yet reached the springtime because if we were, the societies at large would not be so morally bankrupt. If the fruits and graces from the Church were burgeoning over, there would be a parallel grace of living in a moral society where people would be God-fearing and prayerful and sadly, that is not the case (at least in my limited opinion). I was baptized on the last day of Vatican II when I was six days old so the only Catholic church I've known is the Vatican II church, but because of the moral decay of society in the last several decades, it doesn't seem like spring has sprung, yet.
Actually ,great comments from everybody here, with no hostility,just charity, which is what makes this such an interesting forum.
His stats certainly confirm reality. One of the problems is much of the hierarchy will not acknowledge the crisis ,rather roll out the 'springtime' message , tell of wonderful conversions and refuse to give the real numbers.The numbers count. 'BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM'.
The new springtime will come through "Our Lady" because the peace of the world has been entrusted to her!
"We must be confident that this time of trial will bring a purification of the entire Catholic community, a purification that is urgently needed if the Church is to preach more effectively the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all its liberating force. Now you must ensure that where sin increased, grace will all the more abound (cf. Rom 5:20). So much pain, so much sorrow must lead to a holier priesthood, a holier episcopate, and a holier Church" Pope John Paul II, Homily, April 23, 2002 "A new missionary age will arise, a new springtime for the Church" Pope John Paul II, Homily, May 11, 1991 http://www.catholic.org/printer_friendly.php?id=59§ion=Featured Today http://www.emmitsburg.net/grotto/father_jack/2003/church_cluture_christ.htm
Ahhh, now there it is. This is a great thread, I've been reading, thinking, discerning, but not yet commenting. Everyone else is doing such a fine job. But this quote above says it, what Blessed JPII really understood, and where he knew we were going. The winter ravages, covers everything in cold white ice, and all appears dead and gone, but indeed is only sleeping, regrouping. The purification begins in the winter, then concludes in the springtime, but at first thaw all looks dead. Just a few little green sprouts poke through the ice and dead leaves and brown grass...at first. The wintertime is necessary for the complete renewal of springtime to occur in its fullest glory. The sprouts have been popping through for a while now, and some of us see that they are becoming more and more abundant. A few sprouts don't survive through the frosts that are still occurring in this very early springtime, but other sprouts are being made stronger by the frosts; their fruits and seeds will be more tolerant and resilient than the generation before...God and nature work in this way. That is why I am a Franciscan. Francis got this. It is the same glorious unfolding, and God will always prevail. And our mother Mary will gather the little - and the big, flowers and present them to her Son, who will distribute them through the whole world as a flowergirl in a wedding disperses her rose petals. I just wish I knew where my place was on the carpet...
I have tended, lately, to think that the New Springtime is the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Sister Lucy said, re a conversation that she had with Jesus, when she was at Rianjo in August of 1931: " Later, through an intimate communication, Our Lord complained to me: ‘They did not wish to heed My request! ... Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread its errors in the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church. The Holy Father will have much to suffer.’ They will do it, but it will be late. Therefore, eventually, Russia will be converted and a period of peace will be granted to the world = A new Springtime.
I agree Lumena, how can there be a spring time pre triumph? how can there be a triumph pre consecration?It is deep winter and only the Holy Father can change this season.
I think the real identifier, when we will absolutely see the "new springtime", is going to be the same way the it was in the first moments of the Church when the apostles received the power of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. I believe, and much prophecy has indicated, the Holy Spirit (The Divine Will) will overshadow the remnant faithful and they will be able to go out and evangelize, not unlike the early apostles. The Holy Spirit brought us the Church and it will likewise be the Holy Spirit who will renew the Church again in the visible springtime. I still contend the buds are visible in today's Church and waiting for the Holy Spirit to manifest himself again.
I think the new springtime will be the Marian age Fatima said , I believe, and much prophecy has indicated, the Holy Spirit (The Divine Will) will overshadow the remnant faithful and they will be able to go out and evangelize, not unlike the early apostles......... Which 'much prophecies' are you referring too?
Hi Picadillo, I have written a chapter in my book "Heralds of the Second Coming" about the true meaning of the new springtime-and how it relates through the writings of the popes to the new heaven and new earth after the Lord's return in glory (the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary). God Bless Stephen www.divinemercypopes.com
Lumena, I agree with you! Still, I liked what MomsCalling had to share. Rather than this vs. that, I believe the Springtime is a convergence of graces defeating the encroaching darkness. And, of course, Our Lady's Triumph is the key element in this victory. John 1: 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
I also agree that the full springtime is a long way off, and that many things still need to happen before it can come to fruition. But that said, where does that put us and where does it put the warriors that are out here now leading the way? There must be some light, some traces of the springtime in the world sprouting now. It is those who are spreading the word, being Mary's river of love, leading the way with rosaries and scapulars and miraculous medals in-hand. It is Pope Francis, this forum, all the souls consecrated to Mary, and to Jesus' Sacred Heart. We are the sprouts poking through the snow, and our seeds will be even stronger than we are!
It may very well require divine intervention for this new springtime to come about. It may also take a concerted effort by the Faithful. Take for instance the message given to Ida Peerdeman at the Church approved apparition of Our Lady of All Nations [I see this apparition as a continuation of Fatima where there was promised a "period of peace", the "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" which Pope Benedict XVI prayed would commence by 2017]. Our Lady of All Nations requested that the Holy Father solemnly define the Fifth Marian Dogma (Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate) as a precondition for her intervening for Peace. Our Lady's Titles are her Functions and she will not be able to intervene globally until her Title as Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate is given Universal Recognition. An article by Dr. Mark Miravalle "Mary's Role in the New Evangelization" makes a point that I think might help answer the question that has been bothering you for 15 years: "The present worldview, particularly in the West, appears dominated by elements of rationalism, skepticism, materialism, consumerism, nationalism, hedonism, atheism, and secular humanism, all of which, it could be argued, to an unprecedented historic degree.What, then, is the remedy?Historic grace is the remedy. God’s help is the remedy. Man cannot, on his own, solve the exponentially complex and world threatening moral, geo-political, economic, and social issues of today, which are, in root, the ramifications of his own contemporary rejection of God’s existence, God’s revelation, God’s assistance. A historic outpouring of grace is the remedy, and it is the only true remedy.At times of historic crises in the early Church, when the first centuries of Christians faced the great secular persecutions, the Church turned to Mary: “We fly to your patronage, o Holy Mother of God, despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver from all dangers, o ever glorious and blessed Virgin.”At times of historic crises in the Church of the middle ages, against, for example, external threats of Islamic domination at instances like Lepanto in 1571 and Vienna in 1683, the Church turned to Mary, “our Lady of the Rosary, and to the “Holy Name of Mary.” In the mid-nineteenth century, when Bl. Pope Pius IX, was forced into exile by secular attacks on the papacy and the Church, he turned to Mary through the solemn definition of the Immaculate Conception, and his papacy was restored and the Church profoundly strengthened. Now, in light of the present ubiquitous crises which have the potential of threatening the very core of human life and Christian faith, the Church must again turn to Mary.Her titles of Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate are her functions. Within the mysterious domain of the providence of God and the freedom of man, the more we freely acknowledge these supernaturally powerful roles of our Spiritual Mother, the more she is permitted by the heavenly Father to exercise them on our behalf.This is why many contemporaries within the hierarchy, clergy, and laity among thePeople of God sense it deep within their hearts and souls that, precisely now is most urgently the time for the solemn definition of the Spiritual Motherhood of Mary and her roles by the supreme pontiff. Only the infallible acknowledgement of these roles can bring into full action the supernaturally powerful intercession of the Mother of God which is providentially contained within these roles.The proclamation of Marian dogmas has, historically, always resulted in historic graces for the Church and for the world. It is precisely and exclusively a historic grace, mediated by the Mother and Queen of the Church, that will bring forth a Marian and ecclesial Triumph from this contemporary moment of potential human defeat.The world needs a New Pentecost. The first descent of the Holy Spirit was brought forth through the intercession of Mary (cf. Acts 1:14). As the Spirit is the Divine Sanctifier, he will come again in power once his Immaculate Spouse is rightfully honored as the Mediatrix of all of his graces of sanctification, the human Advocate through whom the divine Advocate works to bring sanctification and protection to the world.It has been almost a century since the great Belgian prelate and ecumenist, Cardinal Desiree Mercier initiated the ecclesial movement for the solemn definition of Mary’s universal mediation in 1915, with the simultaneous support of St. Maximilian Kolbe. The world situation now underscores the critical appropriateness of this definition, as humanity faces new and fresh dangers by the year.The objection could be raised that a solemn Marian definition now, in the midst of the multi-form crises facing the Church today, would simply be too destabilizing. In response, let us return to the historic example of Bl. Pius IX.In 1848, hostile secular forces attacked the Vatican causing Bl. Pius IX to flee to Gaeta. Common word on the streets of Rome was that the “Church was now over” and the papacy “finished.” Two Franciscan cardinals, Cardinal Antonio Orioli and Cardinal Luigi Lambruschini (former Secretary of State under Gregory XVI), approached the Holy Father in exile with the following argument: that everything possible which the “Church human” could try had been tried for the protection of the Church and respect for papacy. It was now time to turn to Mary through the solemn definition of her Immaculate Conception. She, in turn, would then lead a new renewal for the Church and the papacy through her powerful intercession.Bl. Pius IX therefore made the decision, while in exile in Gaeta, to define the Immaculate Conception. In 1849, while still in exile, he issued Ubi Primum in papal communications to the world’s bishops which expressed his consideration to define the Immaculate Conception. Soon after in 1851, the secular forces hostile to the pope were defeated in Rome and Pius IX returned to the Vatican. On December 8, 1854, the Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined, which led soon after to the decision to call the First Vatican Council and make the declaration on papal infallibility. Both Vatican I and the definition on papal infallibility led to a great reunification of the Church under the newly strengthened papacy, and a spiritual renewal of various means throughout Italy and beyond.The parallels between the mid-nineteenth century Church and our present twenty-first century Church in crisis are significant. A papal definition of Mary’s Spiritual Motherhood today, in the midst of our present state of ecclesial crisis would have the same effect as the one experienced in the mid-nineteenth century: a renewed Church, fortified and united under a strengthened papacy through the powerful intercession of Mary, Mother of the Church. The Church of today will grow in strength, unity and purification to the degree that she fights for and subsequently proclaims this Marian truth. Our contemporary Church in crisis needs the full activation of the roles of Mary’s Spiritual Motherhood through a public proclamation of its truth more than ever.Grant the Mother the full ability, through our fiat, to bring grace, redemption, and peace to her earthly children, who are presently, in various manners, on the path of potential self-destruction. Let us solemnly acknowledge Mary on earth for that which she is already greatly venerated in Heaven: ourImmaculate Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/2012/10/marys-role-in-the-new-evangelization/
Pope Francis has alluded to the new Springtime in his final Address in Brazil to an audience at the Galeao Airport, Rio De Janeiro. He said: "Through them" (in which he is referring to the young people of the whole world)" ...Christ is preparing a new springtime all over the earth. I have seen its first fruits and I know that others will joyfully reap the full harvest." He later gave an address to journalists which has been thus far translated in to English in such a way that some of his remarks are not clear as to their meaning, and the mainstream media is having a field day, interpreting them to fit their own agenda. It will be necessary to more carefully study what he actually said in the language in which he spoke to the journalists, and in the context - something which will take time.
I assume you are referring to the media who are twisting (as per ususal) the Pope's words in regards to gay clergy. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013...d-about-gays-and-no-it-not-new/#ixzz2aT1f4rNz
The sentence in bold is what I alluded to in earlier posts. The first fruits are the courageous young priests who are teaching the fullness of the faith and the courageous laity who are willing to be persecuted for the truths of the faith. The new springtime is not here yet, but the first fruits are.
