Milleniarism, postmillenialism, premillenialism, amillenialism and Catholic Cathechism

What Archbishop Trani said in a letter is that he bemoaned the "growing and unchecked flood of transcriptions, translations and publications both through print and the internet." (Nov 1st, 2012) The moratorium on the writings is precisely because there are some translations out there that are inaccurate and causing problems. St. Faustina's diary was put on a banned list precisely for this reason, because translations messed with the proper meaning and thus created theological errors. In the meantime, he has given permission to Rev. Joseph Iannuzzi to publish her writings since they are authorized translations. What I have quoted, and really only two or three paragraphs, has come from those authorized translations. Fr. Joseph clarified in a personal letter as well:

…While the Archbishop generously encourages prayer groups on Luisa’s “spirituality” he kindly asks us to await the final verdict on her “doctrines”, that is, on the proper interpretation of her writings. —February 26th, 2013​

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So I have quoted nothing unauthorized. Fr. Joseph permitted me to quote those "proper interpretations" precisely because they were authorized.

 

[quote="Mark Mallett, post: 38117 It's a little late for your book, but so what. [/quote]

Stephen, I was wondering about this the other day. Why did you not write about your theological theory about the the "end of the world" and "final judgement" coming immediately after the anti-christ? And also debunk the more common understanding of the end of times and era of peace in your book? I wonder if your book would have gotten as much support with the many endorsements had you done this? Just curious.

 

And the popes are right. I have said the very same thing. However. St. Bernard's explanation can also be applied as a spiritual understanding of the era of peace, using the Scripture to which he refers in an allegorical sense. This is well within the scope of biblical hermeneutics. That is, it could refer to both without damage to orthodoxy since it falls within the scope entirely of the Apostolic Father's theology.

 

Yes, I posted three of them to which, as of yet, you have not responded, and in fact refused to. They do not explicitly reference Rev 20, but their theology can directly relate to it. Which is expected. The Early Church Fathers are not outside of Sacred Tradition, but its beginning.

I should note that I also do not use the word "millennium" in my writings (except when speaking of millenarianism). I use the same terms as the Holy Fathers ("new era", "new age", "period of peace", "era of peace" etc), though of course, John Paul II has said some pretty powerful prophetic stuff about the coming millennium.

 

Yes, Jesus did say He would send the Spirit of truth to guide the Church into all truth. So, was the early Church rife with millenarian heresy as you say? Yes, in some quarters. Were the Apostolic Fathers, then, completely deceived? Some of them testify that what they were teaching came directly from St. John and his disciples..... Or, has the Spirit, through the theology of the Eastern Church and new theological endeavors found that the Spirit was leading the Church after all in an understanding of the last times, an understanding that has been greatly twisted and deformed throughout the centuries? I believe that the past century has produced an affirmative, not only through contemporary theologians from Danielou to Iannuzzi, but through theological commissions, the approved mystics of the 20th century and of course papal statements that refer explicitly to a time of universal peace in the temporal realm.

And why not? As Raymond de Souza points out, the medieval period of the Church before the French Revolution were glorious times when heads of state were saints. Walking through France, once can see that the whole world must have seemed Catholic. Could there not be a "new Pentecost", even in this desert of a world we live in? It seems to me that that is how God often works. When everything appears dead—wonders!—resurrection! That is the miracle of Divine Mercy.

So too, the Popes have prophesied of a coming springtime, "new age", "new era", "new Pentecost" that will "make Christ the heart of the world." Yes, I hope so. I pray so. This world has become so badly wounded. Will it come? Will these prophecies, including the "period of peace" come? Well, we can't say for certain. The Church has only ruled that it is open to the question. But given the papal statements made, Our Lady's promise, and the unquestionable authenticity of approved mystics, we might all be surprised. Likewise, the end of the world could also be around the bend, as Stephen proposes. This too is not out of the question, although the Antichrist, conversion of the Jews, etc. must come first.

 

I find it rather ironic that you are quoting a theological commission after going to great lengths to explain why the Theological Commission of 1952 should be ignored. Okay.

Nonetheless, this brings us back again to exactly how "the promise will occur within history." Following the Church Fathers, they propose that the day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour day, but a period of time. What has been proposed by the Fathers, commissions, and theologians is the possibility that the "kingdom of hope" will be preceded by a period of triumphant sanctity. That is what they propose, and Ratzinger has said the possibility remains open.

 

I accept whatever the Church says on any seer. However, once again, you leave out the fine details here. In the ensuing dialogue after giving the Notification, Cardinal Ratzinger said he was "very pleased" with her clarifications on the era of peace and four other questions. Regarding the lifting of the Notification, he said he would like to "see a new Notification" but that he had to "obey the cardinals." Perhaps he and Lavada are not in agreement. After all, it was Cardinal Ratzinger who said the question on the possibility of a new era of Christian life was still open to discussion.

Clearly, there are politics in the Vatican (cue: laughter).

 

Okay, bear with me, because the ending is the best part.

Faustina wrote:

I saw the glory of God which flows from the image... God is receiving glory because of it; and the efforts of Satan and of evil men are shattered and come to naught. In spite of Satan's anger, the Divine Mercy will triumph over the whole world and will be worshiped by all souls. —n. 1789​

Compare that to what St. Margaret Mary said:

This devotion was the last effort of His love that He would grant to men in these latter ages, in order to withdraw them from the empire of Satan which He desired to destroy, and thus to introduce them into the sweet liberty of the rule of His love, which He wished to restore in the hearts of all those who should embrace this devotion. —St. Margaret Mary, www.sacredheartdevotion.com​

Now compare that to your favorite heretic:

At the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years; and there must be tranquillity and rest from the labours which the world now has long endured. —Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (250-317 A.D.; Ecclesiastical writer), The Divine Institutes, Vol 7, Ch. 14​

And then to his contemporaries:

Oh! when in every city and village the law of the Lord is faithfully observed, when respect is shown for sacred things, when the Sacraments are frequented, and the ordinances of Christian life fulfilled, there will certainly be no more need for us to labor further to see all things restored in Christ… —POPE PIUS X, E Supremi, Encyclical “On the Restoration of All Things”, n.14, 6-7​

It will at length be possible that our many wounds be healed and all justice spring forth again with the hope of restored authority; that the splendors of peace be renewed, and the swords and arms drop from the hand and when all men shall acknowledge the empire of Christ and willingly obey His word, and every tongue shall confess that the Lord Jesus is in the Glory of the Father. —POPE LEO XIII, Consecration to the Sacred Heart, May 1899​

There is definitely a common thread here. Could it refer only to Heaven? The language is pretty odd to describe Heaven, but sure, it's possible (except for Pius X, because there are no Sacraments in Heaven). But what about Faustina? Well, Fr. George Kosicki, one of the "fathers of Divine Mercy" who assisted in the theological translation and development of the Diary of St. Faustina endorsed Fr. Joseph Iannuzzi's book that ties all these quotes together as referring to an era of peace—including the one on Faustina. He called Fr. Joseph's theology:

"Magnificent!... The triumph of the Divine Will and the Era of Peace are presented in an exciting way that gives us a new and great hope in our troubled world." (back of the book. I happen to own a copy.)​

Furthermore, Fr. Seraphim Michalenko, the other "father of Divine Mercy" who had a great hand in translating the diary and was Faustina's vice-postulator, accompanied me for a week last month on a speaking tour. During that week I preached on this subject, to which he said to me was "powerful and inspiring": Faustina, and the Day of the Lord.

These two men, at the heart of the diary's development, of anybody, would have objected to applying her words to an era of peace.

 

You know, you just gave me a further insight into your thinking, which is cool. I hope it will help clarify for you what the popes and mystics say is coming. But first, the answer to your question lies in quoting more of that interview in which Pope Benedict anticipates the triumph of the Immaculate Heart:

I said the "triumph will draw closer." This is equivalent in meaning to our praying for the coming of God's kingdom. The statement was not intended to express any expectation on my part that there is going to be a turnaround and that history will suddenly take on a totally different course. The point rather was that the power of evil is restrained again and again and again and the power of God himself is shown in the Mother's power and keeps it alive! The Church is always called upon to do what God asked of Abraham, which is to see there are enough righteous men to suppress evil and destruction. I understood my words as a prayer that the energies of the good might regain their vigor. So you could say that the triumphs of God, the triumphs of Mary are quiet, but they are real nevertheless. —POPE BENEDICT, Light of the World, p. 166​

This is a wonderful description of what is to come on so many levels. First of all, Pope Benedict does not see the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart as the end. Rather that "evil is restrained again" as it has been in the past. In this way the "the energies of the good might regain their vigor." My writings also speak of a "new Pentecost" that culminates in the Triumph, following the teachings of St. Louis de Montfort. I get the impression that some people feel that Our Mother will wave a wand like tinkerbell, and the earth will be made perfect, the Church will be perfect, the whole world will be perfect. Yes, let's throw out such fantasies right away. If we are to follow the Church Fathers, then after the lawless one is destroyed, the Church enters some kind of sabbath rest... but the "lawless one" will have devastated many things. It's not going to be an easy recovery...

The Church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity... It will be hard-going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek… The process will be long and wearisome as was the road from the false progressivism on the eve of the French Revolution... But when the trial of this sifting is past, a great power will flow from a more spiritualized and simplified Church. Men in a totally planned world will find themselves unspeakably lonely... Then they will discover the little flock of believers as something wholly new. They will discover it as a hope that is meant for them, an answer for which they have always been searching in secret. And so it seems certain to me that the Church is facing very hard times. The real crisis has scarcely begun. We will have to count on terrific upheavals. But I am equally certain about what will remain at the end: not the Church of the political cult, which is dead already with Gobel, but the Church of faith. She may well no longer be the dominant social power to the extent that she was until recently; but she will enjoy a fresh blossoming and be seen as man’s home, where he will find life and hope beyond death. —Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (POPE BENEDICT XVI), Faith and Future, Ignatius Press, 2009​

This is why the sanctity of the Church in this "fresh blossoming", this "new springtime", this "new age" will be unparalleled. Because, like Mary, she will have become small, humble, empty, able to live in the Divine Will and thus receive in a new and powerful way the "kingdom of God" through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

...we recognize that “heaven” is where the will of God is done, and that “earth” becomes “heaven”—i.e., the place of the presence of love, of goodness, of truth and of divine beauty—only if on earth the will of God is done. —POPE BENEDICT XVI, General Audience, February 1st, 2012, Vatican City​

Pope Benedict's vision of the Triumph follows perfectly the "end times" chronology and theology of the Church Fathers, and subsequent theology:

"the power of evil is restrained"

He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years... Rev 20:2​

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"the power of God himself is shown in the Mother's power and keeps it alive"

...she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. (Gen 3:15)​

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"a prayer that the energies of the good might regain their vigor."

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Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. (Rev 20:6)​

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We shall indeed be able to interpret the words, “The priest of God and of Christ shall reign with Him a thousand years; and when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison;” for thus they signify that the reign of the saints and the bondage of the devil shall cease simultaneously… so in the end they shall go out who do not belong to Christ, but to that last Antichrist… —St. Augustine, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, The City of God, Book XX, Chap. 13, 19​

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I would answer you in the words of St. Hannibal:

…people cannot deal with private revelations as if they were canonical books or decrees of the Holy See. Even the most enlightened persons, especially women, may be greatly mistaken in the visions, revelations, locutions, and inspiration. More than once the divine operation is restrained by human nature… to consider any expression of the private revelations as dogma or propositions near of faith is always imprudent! —St. Hannibal, a letter to Fr. Peter Bergamaschi​

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Thus when anyone of us speaks of private revelations and mystics, we have to keep this in mind, whether they speak of an era of peace or not. What is striking, however, is not that St. Hildegard did not speak of the era of peace in her "five ferocious epochs" (though she does elsewhere), but that an enormous number of mystics in the past century have. But your book only mentions Hildegard....

 

Dear Stephen,

There, I have answered your questions as best I could. Please forgive me (everyone) for my shortcomings. I am not a theologian. There are wonderful minds in the Church, from priests to Cardinals, who embrace the theology of an era of peace and who would do a much better job at explaining these things.

The most important thing is that we acknowledge that the Church remains open to this discussion. Whether an era of peace happens or not, then, is something that remains to be seen. Jesus said we would not know the day or the hour. I sometimes wonder if many of the things we expect have already happened and if things we thought occurred are yet to come.

In this regard, I want to heartily recommend Stephen's book with the caveat of course that, those who look forward to the possibility of an era of peace, will not find it in this writing. It is well researched, well put together. It sounds the trumpet as to the times we are in. It makes known to the reader the serious, apocalyptic and prophetic words of the Holy Fathers. It incorporates the main themes of our times, including a sensitive integration of Our Blessed Mother's presence. Stephen is very much an ally though we differ on how the end unfolds according to the authoritative theology that exists on both sides. There was once a time when theologians debated the color of Mary's eyes. I would almost put this discussion in the same camp, for it is debating on something that remains shrouded in mystery. There no doubt needs to be a clear theology, but when it devolves into sharp disagreement, we must agree to disagree.

On that note, my sense is that this is the time to depart, for my family life and ministry are calling. My stay here has been far longer than it should have been. It has created unfortunate tensions. Satan would love to divide the "camp of the saints." Let's say no! Let's say no! Do not choose my side, this side or that side. Choose Christ's side, the side from which flows peace, mercy, forgiveness, and compassion. And so I deeply apologize to you and anyone else whom I may have offended in those moments of bluntness. Our love of Church and truth should never trump love of neighbor, and I would not be at peace knowing I have injured others.

May God bless all of you. Pray for me as I will for you!

Your little brother,
Mark

 

Wow, thank you Mark. I am going to go read Fr. Gobbi's book in a totally different light now. I'm not as well read as you are and your capacity to research blows me away. Thank you for taking time to explain your view of all of this. We are all edified by the entire debate. You've got your next five blogs right here!

 

1 Corinthians 13:

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.



I am afraid I have only had time to briefly go through the posts here during the week, but look forward to taking time to read them over the next few days as we are of here on a public holiday.

But this I would say. True theology is of the heart , much more than of the head. True theology being I believe the our ascent through the action of the Holy Spirit into the living image of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:18

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

The mark of true theology then is the presence of the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love, of charity and of forgiveness. Indeed as St John warns:


John 4

7 Beloved, let us alove one another: for blove is of God; and every one that loveth is cborn of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not aknoweth not God; for God is love.



Or as St John of the Cross so wisely said:

'At the evening of life we shall be judged on love'.

Note, we shall be loved on love, not on how learned we are, or how many arguments we win , but on love alone.

Now it seems to me that at least a couple of posters (not by any means all but at least a couple) are very much and constantly going over the borders of love on this thread and should pause and reconsider.

Bobby's (Garabandal's) advice seems to be so wise,; pray before posting, give the Holy Spirit time, like a rich wine to ferment. Do so especially if you are feeling, well, a little hot under the collar.

Ask your self too the hard question , 'Is this about uncovering the truth or about ME winning MY argument? In other words is it the work of the Spirit who is a Spirit of truth or is it about self and ego.




So again Bobby's advice is rooted in the Holy Spirit; take pause before you post. Take time for the Holy Spirit to guide your hand and heart.

Be kind, be loving, be charitable.

Be so much better at listening to what the other person says, praying and reflecting upon it, than putting forward your own view. This is the hall mark of charitable dialogue

2 Timothy 2:14

Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

 

Thank you Mark, Stephen, Insearch, Jon, David and Mario (and many others) for some interesting topics of thought....I need to pray with fervor and reread this thread slowly to digest all the great theological points. I feel so simple and this seems so lofty....great minds and hearts at work here and you have my admiration each and every one of you! ~God bless you and your families and thanks for this great thread....

 

Padraig said:

Bobby's (Garabandal's) advice seems to be so wise,; pray before posting, give the Holy Spirit time, like a rich wine to ferment. Do so especially if you are feeling, well, a little hot under the collar.​

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Ask your self too the hard question , 'Is this about uncovering the truth or about ME winning MY argument? In other words is it the work of the Spirit who is a Spirit of truth or is it about self and ego.​

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This is always an issue for me to consider; I know I've lost the battle when I return to one of my "brilliant" posts and no one has responded or they've had the nerve to challenge my supposition! ​

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Something came to mind when I read this in the last of Mark Mallett's posts:​

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The most important thing is that we acknowledge that the Church remains open to this discussion. Whether an era of peace happens or not, then, is something that remains to be seen. Jesus said we would not know the day or the hour. I sometimes wonder if many of the things we expect have already happened and if things we thought occurred are yet to come.​

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In this regard, I want to heartily recommend Stephen's book with the caveat of course that, those who look forward to the possibility of an era of peace, will not find it in this writing. It is well researched, well put together. It sounds the trumpet as to the times we are in.​

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We all agree that our terrible times (as Padraig recently described them) have an apocalyptic quality about them. Whether they are an interim assault or the final apocalypse ultimately does not matter. Our souls and the souls of billions are at stake. All of us, united with our Queen, must be resolute and prepared for battle. It is a spiritual campaign we wage, and as Catholics we have the greatest of privileges: access to the complete arsenal of Christ.​

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The war is now, not later. Are we asleep? Are we merely calculating? Or are we training? Let us prepare together, for our regiment might be called to engage the enemy at any moment!​

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St. Joan of Arc, pray for us!​

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O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!​

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Christ, our King, come to our aid!​

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Let God arise and His enemies be scattered!​

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Well one thing is for sure......... If anyone wants to read and discern what the future of the Church will be after the Great Tribulation, you have to go no further then this thread to get both views. Whether you believe in the era of earthly peace (as I do) or not, Stephen and Mark did a service to the Church in defending their positions. For all practical purposes, my greater concern is the huge challenge that lies ahead for all of us to even get to the time of the "era of peace" in this great struggle for the future of The Church. Our Blessed Mother has provided us all the grace necessary in her many messages: Pray the Rosary daily (especially within the family), do much Penance, Fasting, make frequent visits to the Blessed Sacrament, monthly Sacramental Confession, and live good lives. Stephen Wallford's book is still very good and Mark Mallett's charism is extremely valuable to the Church. My spiritual life has been enriched because of them.

 

I see that Mark Mallett has written one more blog on Millenarianism on his web site for us to ponder: http://www.markmallett.com/blog/millenarianism-what-it-is-and-is-not/#more-11144

 

Perhaps some clarity on all this is offered by some quotes from Benedict XVI in which he refers specifically to St Bernard's notion of the 'intermediate coming'. The first can be found in Mark Mallett's latest blog post taken from the conversations with Peter Seewald:
http://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-triumph/#more-11175
This is fleshed out in vol. 2 of Pope Benedict's Jesus of Nazareth in the passage below.

Emphasis mine. Seen in the light of this reading, Mark's and Joseph Iannuzzi's remarks fall into place, with the notion of the 'anticipatory present' being the interpretive key.

 

Benedict XVI continues with a beautiful and profound meditation on the meaning of the prayer 'Marana tha!' seen in this anticipatory fashion [note for theo-nerds only: this kind of inaugurated eschatology is perhaps one of the most important achievements of modern systematics across the denominational spectrum - similar thoughts can be found in the work of theologians such as John Zizioulas (Greek Orthodox), Wolfhart Pannenberg (Lutheran) or Geoffrey Wainwright's 'Eucharist and Eschatology (Methodist)]