Medjugorje - true or false

Dear Garabandal,

The documents presented in this site are real, the Bishop declarations are real and the documents to prove every claim are real.
Anthony Foley is only one of the authors writing about Medjugorje quoted but not as provider of the documents presented.

 

By the way... Who has said that Garabandal is authentic?

 

Bishop Zanic is no longer in charge of Medjugorje and has expressed his personal opinions that the apparitions are false. He had his authority over the the apparition site in his diocese removed in 1986 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger today Pope Benedict XVI. Upon refusing Bishop Zanic's negative report of the Medjugorje apparitions, Cardinal Ratzinger as Prefect of the Vatican for the Doctrine of the Faith removed the Medjugorje case dossier from Bishop Zanic to hand it over to the group of Yugoslavian Bishops.

If there was such a clear cut case of disobedience to the Church as some claim then the Church would have kicked the Medjugorje phenomenon into touch.

A Bishop is not infallible on matters of opinion. His opinion is that Medjugorje is false and he is entitled to his opinion but he is fallible on this matter because this issue lies within the prudential order.

 

You can tell by my name that I do.

We are free to believe in Garabandal as well as Medjugorje. The Church has condemned neither.

 

The Virgin is all over Italy, not just with Ivan. That is a silly thing to say. How many apparitions and shrines are there JUST in Italy!! Geez. Come on, stick to the question and quit throwing out stuff that has nothing to do with the question.

 

I am glad that I put this issue on a single thread so let the other threads ‘breath in the power of the spirit’. For those not interested in the minutiae of the debate it can be avoided! Let me and Jose spar each other . I respect him and he respects me – that is why I love Catholicism because we have freedom to disagree about the non essentials but the Church insists we must believe the essentials for salvation.

Many Saints and Blesseds have described private revelations from God, of various kinds, throughout the history of the Church. Therefore, it must be true that God gives private revelation to some persons. There are also a number of apparitions of the Virgin Mary, a type of private revelation, that have gained wide approval from the faithful and from the leadership of the Church. Examples of these include: Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, Lourdes, La Salette and others.

The CCC says something very important – it is not necessary to believe in any private revelation because the fullness of faith has been revealed.

Why then does God allow our Lady to come to us?

It must be because as Queen of Prophets she comes anew to remind us of the fundamental truths of faith that are being lost in our secularised world. A mother has been sent because the world is in peril and has cut itself off from the father. She calls us back to her Divine Son. Then there is the prophetic element – she has come to warn us that the world has taken the wrong path and is on the road to perdition. Anyone looking around us today can see the ‘signs of the times’.

In Garabandal and Medjugoje I hear the voice of a mother and want to respond.

It is often left to the mind of the faithful (sensus fidelium) to discern true from false claims:

Throughout the ages, there have been so-called 'private' revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church. (CCC, n. 67)

The sensus fidelium seems to suggest our Blessed Mother is appearing at Medjugorje as millions are going there in their droves.

Even Bishop Peric is thawing a little
Bishop Peric during Confirmations in Medjugorje on May 20. 2012
Though opposed to the claims of apparitions in Medjugorje, local Bishop Ratko Peric says the town can be a Jerusalem and a site of the action of The Holy Spirit. Yet in the midst of a major building boom, the Bishop also warns the locals against turning Medjugorje into a modern Babylon.
Medjugorje can go in two different directions, and one of them will turn the village into a new Jerusalem and a place of the obvious action of God, local Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar told Confirmation candidates in St. James Church on May 20.

“You have the opportunity to make Jerusalem out of this parish, a place of action of the Spirit of God, where a multitude blends into unity, where each one understands everyone in God, and not in false wealth, where Peter’s word is heard: “Repent … and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2.39) Bishop Peric said in his sermon.

 

I know both of them, this Corvaglia, gratuated in humanities (and it's not a joke) and this Foley using Joachim Bouflet without knowing that Bouflet is a faithfull of Garabandal since he has met himself Padre Pio, showing there serious and we don't need to be a biologist to understand that

Regarding the rest, I have already sent few testimonies about Medjugorje but I will send more if necessary, for the others, only a Marian Expert from our Catholic church can prove or not and with the necessary knowledge the authenticity of a Marian Apparition not any business writers or any supposed Scientific.

Medjugorje is a atomic bomb for our chuch, a mixt of Politic, Business and even more, I will send some private documents as soon as I will have more times but on this thread only, let the others be in Peace as you said Garabandal, between us do you have any news about Ron Conte, I would be happy to know the next Garabandal Great Miracle date, I am joking of course.

Aviso

 

Donal Anthony Foley condemns almost everyone which makes me wonder just what his motives are. Then there is another reporter.. This one is an eye opener..

Here is the respectable man condemning Medjugorje http://www.culturewars.com/medj.htm

And here is exactly the same man, only he doesn't seem quite so respectable now. http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=476

and again..
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/E-M...t=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=2&item=EMJones

So it seems to me that some of the detractors are indeed questionable and cannot be relied upon to give a true witness.

 

That some detractors are questionable does not make an apparition true. What about the others who ask questions and who are never answered? What about he bad fruits? What about the business that some seers have? What about the disobedience to the Bishop supposedly induced by the Virgin? What about the priests suspended and who went on with their ministery because the Virgin said that the Bishop was wrong? What about the apparition of the Virgin saying that Fr. Jozo is a saint? And the apparition of the Virgin with Fr. Jozo together? What about the ecstasies that sometimes are and sometime not? What about the scheduled apparitions with public like in those religious shows where the seers decide when and where the apparition is going to occurr?

Does all this not smell a bit strange?

But nobody explain those questions. Still we "have" to believe in Medjugorje.

 

Ok, a lot of the above could be hearsay, and that is why I say the character of the detractors is paramount, same as the characters of the seers themselves.

There is a lot of complicated history with regards to the Franciscans and the local bishop.

I do know that I watched the first bishop say that he believed the children and then he was arrested and detracted what he had originally stated. If I am wrong on this please someone let me know. But I am sure that I remember it this way.

Anyway, if the Vatican were aware of all the goings on and felt that the Franciscans were at fault etc, the pope would have moved to do something, he also could have been quick to demand an investigation and to have the matter dealt with as quickly as possible so as not to lead the laity astray or to cause them unnecessary distress.

The very fact that this has been allowed to go on as long as it has, tells me that the Vatican were happy to leave things as they were. This was a statement in itself.

The Vatican has moved very swiftly in condemning others, even in the case of seers saying they see the same thing, some are condemned others are believed.

The Church will let us know in due course. Until then, I am happy to listen to the messages as long as they are not contrary to the faith, the minute they were, I would simply walk away.

 

Dear Mary's Child,
I am going to challenge you here, to see if you would just simply walk away.

But first you say (and many others are thinking the same) "a lot could be just hearsay" Yes you could be right.
But did you ever stop to think so could all the messages? They could be just hearsay.


It was said, Mary said. "ALL religions are equal to my son."

This could not be more contrary to the faith.

Jesus said "You are either for me or against me."

This is so plan to be seen, and yet there will be some of you who will be able to put a whole different spin on these quotes.

I don't know how many examples we need.

First rule of discernment. Is money being made from it?

 

I am no theologian and have admittedly never been to Medjugorje. However, I was on the path to hell until i heard a Catholic revert by the name of Tom Rutkowski preach the messages of Medjugorje. Since then I have tried to live the messages of daily Mass, fasting, and the rosary as much as my state in life/personal journey will allow. If anyone does not personally believe in Medjugorje I can respect that and i understand that it is not required for salvation. However, I would venture to say that I am not alone in saying I was lost but now found due to Medjugorje. Let us study the signs and discern. Let us even have conflict, because conflict causes growth, but let us agree that we are all trying to get to heaven as best we can and that in the end Mary's Immaculate Heart will triumph despite our personal failings and pray for all who are drawn here.

 

Our Lady never said all religions were equal to my son. Please get your quotes right if you are going to use it to defend your position.

 

Sorry. What was the exact quote then?

This was the first time I didn't use exact quotes, I did it from memory this time, when I did it I thought I should do it word for word. But I was in a hurry.

 

I suppose it depends on what book you read on how the words are exactly said.

Father Ljubic's book. ..... "It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and Orthodox, like the catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children."

The Vigin says. "All religions are equal befor God." (Chronicle corpus of Medjugorje)

Sorry for not quoting correctly.

 

If I have a difficulty with any apparition site or locutions or whatever, I just drop them. Why flog a dead horse? As Cardainl Ratrzinger said there has been a huge explosion of Marian phenomena right across the world. So if we dump one there ar eplenty of Church approved one like Btenai, Kbeho and Akita.

Our LAdy is saying the same thing in all these places as she did at Fatima, pray, fast, say the rosary, believe the good News and repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand.

It reminds me of the Parable of the Two Sons>

Matt 21:28-32 But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went. He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but he didn’t go. Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said to him, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into the Kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn’t believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn’t even repent afterward, that you might believe him.

The important thing is that we do God's will , not in belief or unbelief in the phenomena that directs us to obey.

\i would drop something like like a burning coal if I thought it was suspicious; life is too short. As I say, why flog a dead horse?

 

I hear you. And I know what you are saying.

As I would love to stop 'flogging this dead horse". And I will soon.

But Padraig, you come across as smart guy.
Aren't you just the slightest concerned with the fact people take Medj as Gospel?

What if my gut feeling is true?

What if the Church looks non existing and they haven't either condemned or approved Medj?

With no Pope to direct us, the faithful will listen to the 'alleged' Virgin at Medjugorje.

If this is from the evil spirit, where will it lead the faithful? (and let's face it, there is lots of info to make a neutral person see something wrong here)

Can you see what I am saying?

Can you see I am speaking because I have a real concern?

I am being made to feel like I am hated here, and I don't like it. It hurts.
But I am still trying to make people open their eyes.

I am a daily practising Catholic. (I know that doesn't make me a saint, because I know I have lots of fault). But apart from believing in Medj, I am just like everyone else here. Maybe I find it easier to change my mind.
I believe in the Catholic Church and I obey their teachings.
I do not talk about condemned apparitions, I take caution with the ones that the Church hasn't given us advice on (now).

If only I heard people saying. "Yes. I will look carefully into it."

Don't worry. I will stop flogging this dead horse soon.
But I wish when Medjugorje is talked about, it isn't spoken like it is Gospel.

Queen of Peace. It is dividing the faithful.

 

As far as I know the Church is about to rule on Medugorje, so if they say it is false, I am fine with that. If they rule they are worthy of belief, I am fine with that too.

It is really one of the great advantages of being a Catholic that we have teaching Authorities to do the work for us. I am happy with htis and to wait on waht they will shortly say.

Compares this with say, our sisters and brothers the Mormons whose authorities have seemed to take a full time role in covering up the truth since the time of Joe Smith and I realsie what a wonderful treasure in having Authorities we can rely on to uncover and reveal the truth.

I was thinking about all this as I liestened to the Gospel of the blind beggar Bartimaius this morning. Bart shouted at Jesus, 'Son of David' and at once people , including the Apostles rushed to shut him up, for , 'Son of David' was a tale of the coming Messiah and evn the paostles did not go along with this.

THis in its trun reminded me of a priest I met Fr Arthurs when I was 19/ Fr Arthur had a widespread reputation of being a saint and people came from round about to be healed by him. As soon as I met him I regarded him as a saint too.

But priests and brothers in the monastery laughed at him and were very cynical and this made me doubt too.

However a couple of years back I revisited the monastery grave and their was Fr Arthurs grave, cnvered in candles that the local people had left in veneration. Then I realsied at once they had seen far more clearly than I. I had allowed the cynical to make me cynical too. But the locals knew and understood. I also understood that jealousy had a lot to do with the preists cynicism.

Anyhow with Bartmaius and Fr Arthur, I think the truth has a way of always coming to sthe surface.

Make no doubts if Medugorje is false it will be seen to be false, if it is true it will be shown to be true. Of that I am confident.

Bartimaeus though blind could see better than the sighted. May God grant us the same grace to see.

Acts 5:38-39

New International Version (NIV)
38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

 

Padraig. I tried once to find out about when the Church is going to give it's ruling.
I had heard earlier in the year it was going to be this year. But since then, I heard it has been postponed.

Can you, or do you know how to find out if it is going to happen soon?

If this is going to happen soon, then I will feel so much better. I will also wait quietly.

And me, like you. Will support the church ruling. I will gladly eat 'humble pie' if they say it is authentic. Yes I will feel horrible in what I have said, but I will support the Church. It would be so much better if it is me that is wrong.

I wonder it others will accept if it is condemned?

Anyway if you can find out what the church is doing about it, that would be great!

 

But, what if the Vatican finally decides to maintain the actual status ruled by two consecutive bishops of Mostar and the Yugoslavian Bishops Conference (non constat de supernaturalitate)?

Everything will stay as it is???